Why is needed location Services

[Babydol]

Why does my location have to be on in order for my fitbit to sync. I don't feel comfortable with that.

Moderator Edit: Updated Subject For Clarity.

[Odyssey13]

Hello and welcome to the forums @Babydol

Have you read this article? click

It's also due to Google requiring location to be on Marshmallow 6.

[Babydol]

Ya I did. I just turn off location until I want to update my numbers now. I don't like the idea of having my location always on on my phone.

[MarreFitbit]

It's nice to see you around @Babydol, welcome! As of the Marshmallow release, Google has changed the permissions required for Bluetooth syncing. Location must be turned on as of the Android 6.0 update in order to sync.

The way we identify trackers (called a MAC address) is no longer the real address. Any mode (such as Battery saving) works, it just appears turning that off, kills Mac addresses, even on Bluetooth devices.

You can get more information in this thread.

Have a nice day girls @Babydol @Odyssey13 ! 

[Rich_Laue]

Just a note about turning location off, your phone still reports tour location back to Google by monitoring cell towers, and wifi, even when wifi is off The only to truly hide your location is to tien the phone off

[winteryrun]

i have plenty of blue tooth devices that sync without location turned on, this is not a google issue.  it's simply fitbit trying to gather more data.  I'm done using my fitbit flex if that's the company line.  let me know where to mail it for a refund, too bad i've been a loyal customer!

[winteryrun]

totally agree, this is nonsense we didn't sign up to have them track us

[Rich_Laue]

Then why is out only on Marshmellow that location meddling to be turned on? ??

Why can location be off on Lollipop, KitKat,Windows Phones, and iOS devices?

When i upgraded to Marshmellow,  without upgrading the Fitbit app, The OS asked if gotbit vould have access to Location. Why would an app decide that it now needs location becajse the Operating System Changed.  BTW: except for warranty issues Fitbit doesn't care about your location. 

Just a note,  turning location, gps, network, and WiFi off, does not stop your carrier or Google from knowing where the phone is.

[MarreFitbit]

I agree with you @Rich_Laue, this has nothing to be with Fitbit... this was an implementation of the Android update. 

However @winteryrun, we accept exchanges and returns for 45 days from the date of purchase. 
 

If you didn't purchase your tracker from Fitbit directly, you'll need to contact the retailer about returns and exchanges. We can only exchange or refund items purchased from fitbit.com.

Therefore, I'd recommend getting in touch with Customer Support for further assistance about your inquiry. 

Have a nice start of the week guys! 

[Squidd · Accepted solution]

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@winteryrun wrote:

i have plenty of blue tooth devices that sync without location turned on, this is not a google issue.  it's simply fitbit trying to gather more data.  I'm done using my fitbit flex if that's the company line.  let me know where to mail it for a refund, too bad i've been a loyal customer!

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The changes in Marshmallow don't mean that bluetooth can't be used without location turned on, they simply make it impossible to get the MAC address of a connected device (which is a unique identifier found in every bluetooth device) unless the location service is turned on. Google's reasoning for this change is that it can be possible for an app to work out your location simply by scanning which bluetooth devices are nearby - so unless the location permission has been granted and the location service is active, MAC addresses are hidden and bluetooth devices cannot be uniquely identified by apps. This doesn't affect most bluetooth devices (other phones, headsets etc.) because knowing their MAC address isn't essential to communicate with them. But Fitbit's software uses the MAC address to identify if a tracker belongs to you and is linked to your account, so without it your tracker is basically invisible to the Fitbit app.

What Fitbit should do is add a method to query a tracker directly for its MAC address, via a firmware update. This simple change would work around Google's restriction and eliminate the need for the location service to be active.

[Rich_Laue]

Fitbit did not change the way the device syncs, for years Fitbit has been looking at the Mac address of the tracker to identify what account the tracker belongs to.
This is why Fitbit connect has never needed to know anything about the account during a sync. It simply looks to see every fitbit that responds to its lets sync command, then sends the tracker data along with its Mac address. When Fitbit requests the Mac address of the usb connected device that it wants to comunicate with. The Android OS has always gave it, that is until Android 6. Now if Fitbit changed the way they synced, they could have the app send the account info along with the trackers data. This could possibly not require the MAC address, but then it would cause problems when multiple ttackers are connected to the same account. 

BTW if my neighbor B and I are home, neighbor A's computer will sync 7 trackers to 4 accounts.
If you are not aware Fitbit was not the first to offer multiple tracker capability, but the first to offer this feature without having to tell the server what tracker to minitor. A fairly easy tast knowing the Mac address.

I will repeat having to turn on location has become required not because of fitbit, it became a problem for some, because Fitbit has not changed the way it syncs your data. Android in Marshmellow has changed the requirements to pass the Bluetooth Mac address on to the requesting app.
I can hear it now, my speaker, keyboard car radio, even other phones connect to BT without needing location, yes they also do not need to see the MAC address.

During a sync fitbit does not request the location of the phone, i just did a sync of the 3 Fitbit trackers, then on the phone went to settings - location - recent apps that requested location services. Facebook, Google, google play services, Foursquare, lookout and maps. Even tho i synced on 3 occaisions this morning 3 trackers synced a minimum of 3 times or 9 syncs. Fitbit does not show up as aaking for the locatuon, why? Because they never did! Just the MAC address.
I have always left location on, unless an app is asking for location it doesnt affect tye battery of the phone. Your OS and Google don't need location services to be turned on to know where you or at. The phone knows your location even with wifi and network turned off
But you say doesnt location services use GPS, well no it doesnt. It first uses cell towers and known locations of WiFi hotshots, as long as the app is not specifically calling the GPS.it will not use GPS. Fitbit doesn't care about the location, it just wants the Mac address, that is why location services never gets a request during a sync.

[emseepee]

I hate the location being on. It drains the battery and it is too Big Brother for me. FitBit needs to sort this issue out. Changing the alarm syncs without the location being on, so that's what I will have to do until this issue is sorted out. Come on FitBit, you can do better than this!

[KLeBlazeS5]

@Rich_Laue

Please explain this scenario then...

When my Blaze is turned off it loses time and a sync is needed to reset the time to current.

I have found that if I set or change a silent alarm in the App on the phone, it syncs the new alarm to the Blaze WITHOUT location enabled.

I have also found that this will also set the time on the Blaze to current time.

All that is needed for these syncs to occur is an internet connection (which in itself is rediculous and the topic of another forum discussion).

Try it yourself if you have a Blaze.

Turn off your location service, set a silent alarm in your App on the phone and watch it sync.

Then tell me why this sync cannot be done without location turned on when syncing data.

App version 2.55 (2193155) Blaze version 17.8.401.3

[Arrendalek]

I fired them when the s3 came out. Much happier but I can't compete with my
old fit bit friends.

[Rich_Laue]

@KLeBlazeS5amd @emseepee

@Squidd did a fine job of explaining why Android 6.0 tequires location services turned on,  i could repeat his answer or let you read it yourself. Another thing is to search "Android Bluetooth Location", you should find a link to the dev.android page.

BTW location services on will not drain the battery since it does not turn on or look for the phones location. It simply allows apps to requeat the location.

Now if you have Gmap set to track you then i guess this could be drawing battery  Fitbit nor android request your location durring a sync, android still requires it to be on. Do a search, you will find this change affects a lot more apps than fitbit.

About sync, i could say that if the alarm can be set in the app and transferred to the tracker without a sync then location services will not be needed to be on, since it is just the app and tracker talking.

I just tried to set an alarm and it works. My thought is that Fitbit responded to being able to set an alarm without a sync. I need to investagate this more.

Three weeks ago i found this impossible. 

As for why i say the time will need to be synced when the Blaze is turned off?

See the whats new then read the botes on 17.8.301.4

With the Blaze you can create an alarm right on the tracker.

[KLeBlazeS5]

My point was @Rich_Laue that if alarms and time can be set between the app and the tracker without location turned on, then obviously the app can find the tracker without it so why can't syncing data also do the same ?

I know alarms can be set directly on the Blaze now and that @Squidd explained the requirements for Android needing location services to find bluetooth devices but the above point seems to be in opposition to Sqidd's explaination.

[KLeBlazeS5]

BTW, location does not have to be on for notifications to be sent by the app to the tracker either, just bluetooth, and wouldn't this also mean the app needs to "find" the tracker to deliver these ?

So I still can not understand the requirement for location to be on for sync when everything else which the app does to communicate with the tracker does not need location turned on.

[Rich_Laue]

The app does not need to find the tracker for notifications, the tracker simply needs to be connected to the phone. This is why wives complain that they still receive notifications from their husbands phones, the tracker was removed from hos account, but not from his phone.

Why does location need to be on?

Every bluetooth device has a MAC addresss, fitbit years ago, (same thing for most other trackers), chose to use this MAC address to identify the the tracker and the account that goes with it. This allows connect and the wim 10 app to sync amy tracker it may see, is worh one sync command all 12 of the fitbits in the office can sync.

Now lets look at the Android phone, it was discovered that up through Android 5 there was a huge open door while an app requested the MAC of a bluetooth device. This open door would allow a third party stranger to gain access to your phone at this time. Not related but there was a period in the 90's when it was popular to sit with a computer on Hollywood Blvd and download the phones address books of thr stars that walked by. They then posted the lists on the internet.

Android, for your security decided to close this door, we don't know why they should care about user security, but they do, with this security fix it now requires location services to be on while the MAC of a bluetooth is being requested. Android says this is needed to confirm that it is only the bluetooth device that is wanted 

[KLeBlazeS5]

OK, so why ask for the MAC address of the tracker when it is already paired with the phone ?

This pairing is enough for other bluetooth devices such that someone's bluetooth mouse does not control the cursor on my computer which is next to it, and notifications, silent alarms and time are already updated by this pairing without location.

I also found out today when setting another silent alarm that the daily data was also uploaded to the phone app from the tracker...without location turned on.

So it seems that everything which the app does between the phone and the tracker can be done without location turned on BUT syncing data from the phone app to the Fitbit servers cannot ?

It seems to me that location really only needs to be on for the initial pairing of the tracker and phone then all else could be done without it if programmed that way.

[Squidd]

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@Rich_Laue wrote:

Now lets look at the Android phone, it was discovered that up through Android 5 there was a huge open door while an app requested the MAC of a bluetooth device. This open door would allow a third party stranger to gain access to your phone at this time. Not related but there was a period in the 90's when it was popular to sit with a computer on Hollywood Blvd and download the phones address books of thr stars that walked by. They then posted the lists on the internet.

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Sorry but that's completely wrong, it had nothing to do with third party access. It was changed so that a program would not be able to use nearby MAC addresses to guess the device's location, that is why the addresses aren't hidden when the location permission has been granted - in that case the program has been given explicit permission to know the location, so there's no point hiding the MACs.

The change also affected wifi MAC addresses, not just Bluetooth devices.