Blaze cycling convert to steps for 7-day total and challenges?

[Slayer33]

Hi everyone, first post here. I have my new blaze on its way, but I am worried that what I intended to purchase it for is actually not going to work. The issue here is Cycling and Step conversion..

It doesn't exist?

I asked customer support on 3 separate occasions, with 3 different answers.

The 1st was to upgrade my charge to a blaze since I commute to work on my bike, 50 kilometers round trip. I asked if my bike ride will count towards my daily step total and i was told that yes, the blaze will track cycling.

2nd attempt - after searching the forums and web for cycling/step conversions for the fitbit surge i was unsuccessful so I contacted customer support again. This time the conversation was more thorough and the customer support person confirmed with me that yes, the blaze will include the cycling that i do and it will indeed count towards my challenges and 7-day totals. After this chat, I pre-ordered the blaze.

3rd attempt - This morning... (March 4th, 2016) - After seeing the Blaze out in the real world and waiting to receive mine in the mail, i couldn't find anything about the tracking of bike rides and the steps being counted.. so I contacted customer support once more.. this time, i was told that no, cycling activities will not go towards my 7-day totals or my challenges.

I'm heart broken and disappointed... I compete daily with my family and friends, i have worked so hard in the past 6 weeks trying to get steps in at work to the tune of an average of 18k steps per day and 19lbs lost to date (i started at 205lbs). I was looking forward to commuting to work on my bike now that spring is around the corner.. and was gearing up to tackle my friends and family and show them how much hard work i'm putting in... but all that is gone.. I feel like if Fitbit is to be an activity tracker it should be one, one that integrates the activities it supports within its application. Not just a pedometer.. which it is turning out to only be.

It doesn't seem that difficult to integrate bike rides and convert them into steps.. you have a heart rate sensor, you have an altimeter and with the blaze and surge gps tracking (blaze using phone gps). I'm sure there is a calculation that can be done to convert distance cycled into steps and count it towards your daily and weekly totals.

I'm at a tipping point... i have been using a garmin bike computer for years to track my cycling.. but i got the blaze cause i want to be included in my weekly totals and challenges. Since its not going to work like i assumed it would.. i may very well cancel and return my blaze when it arrives... reluctantly..

[bbarrera]

I use my iPhone 5s as my Fitbit step tracker, the feature is MobileTrack and it supports a bunch of phones:

http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/How-do-I-use-MobileTrack/?q=mobiletrack&l=en_US&f...

With my phone in pants pocket, or jersey pocket, I get average about 450-550 steps/mile.

The problem here is that Fitbit reward system (step challenges and health insurance premium reductions) are all step based. That is a problem for anyone that rides, or swims, or rows for their cardio. Its also a problem for weight lifting. The CDC weekly recommendations are 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous cardio, plus 2 strength training sessions. I also ride for cardio (no walking or running), so the Fitbit reward system is a slap in the face for those of us following CDC recommendations and focusing on rides or swims or rows for cardio.

[Rich_Laue]

Personally when ridding a bicycle, 8 find my tracker counts the bumps in the road as steps. Since walking and cycling are totally different. Many people have asked to n have these false steps removed, since they dont want to see any steps during cycling. 

Another case of can't please everyone. 

[bbarrera]

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@Rich_Laue wrote:

Another case of can't please everyone. 

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@Rich_Laue not really.

The problem is that Fitbit reward system is step-based. That is usually the root cause of "why don't I get steps while biking?" requests.

Consider this scenario - I'm on a Goal Day Challenge and cycle for 3 hours at high intensity, while someone pacing around their office can bag 10,000 steps and beat me on the challenge.Who was more active? Who obtained more health benefits? Who is motivated and who feels cheated?

Same argument if your company offers health insurance premium discount based on step count.

Given the new devices (Surge, Blaze, etc), Fitbit's step-based reward system doesn't fully align with the company mission statement - "To empower and inspire you to live a healthier, more active life."

Fitbit Challenges are a big part of what makes Fitbit fun and motivational. Its hard to be inspired or motivated if you work harder in a Challenge and lose because your choice of cardio doesn't involve steps.

[Slayer33]

I agree bbarrera, this is exactly what motivates me right now to compete and stay active.. and if my 50km bike ride 5 days a week don't enable me to compete with others who just go for a leisurely walk and accumulate steps then for me its quite sad.

Its like you said, Fitbits app and your contacts is what makes it fun, and if they can't incorporate this option then its un-motivating. They list these types of activities (cycling, elliptical etc) yet they dont count.. if some users don't want it to count then they should build in the option to not count steps.

But its as simple as making a stride calculation over distance travelled, it can get more in depth with heart rate and altitude measurements. But realistically, it isn't that hard of a feature to add to make more types of exercise count.

Otherwise, its like i said, the Fitbit application is limited to being just a pedometer.. especially if people like myself use it for the 7-day totals and challenges.

[DaneNicholson]

I'm using a Surge and assume it's the same as Blaze... So with that caveat:

If you don't turn on bike mode you get a lot more steps. And the auto tracking feature for exercise manages to figure out I'm biking, it just means I don't have GPS. Since I commute on a fixed route I couldn't care less about GPS in my specific application.

Like you, I compete in challenges every week, generally many. So to ensure I can keep pace I keep bike mode off almost all the time and get about 3000 steps for my 16km ride which seems reasonable. On bike mode, if turned on from the Surge, I'm lucky to get 1000 on the same commute.

Overall I think the biking to step count is fine, although the calorie count a bit low. That said I don't use my Fitbit for super specific stats like some people here do, I use it more to get general measures of exercise so I can compare against myself and keep motivated.

Starting Sunday I'll have a Blaze to compare with (I'm on vacation and it arrived in my absence).

[Slayer33]

Thanks, this looks like a promising option to get steps for my rides... please let me know how it works out with the blaze!

[Shmaloney]

I would also like to see a step conversion applied for cycling. The fitbit Charge HR measures Heart Rate during exercise. With that info and if I tell it the exercise was cycling (even if just stationary cycling), I would think there could be a simple calculation for estimating the equivalent number of steps. There are several activity to step conversions out there, so even if we just enter the start and end time and the type of exercise there should be an option for converting it to equivalent steps.

I just bought a Charge HR. This is my 2nd day using it. I am currently debating whether I will return it - the vast majority of my exercise is cycling or swimming. I was hoping for an every-day all-day watch to track my activities. I have a Garmin GPS watch that I use for cycling, but because of its limited battery life that is limited to only that exercise. As I get involve in office challenges and counting steps (including equivalent steps from other activities) I would ike for 1 device to fit the bill. So far no luck.

[bbarrera]

@Shmaloney steps are not the answer. Which steps do you want? Short steps while pacing around the office? Slow walking steps? Fast walking steps? Running steps? Steps aren't created equal, and tell nothing about the intensity of your activity. Simply put, steps are a poor gauge of how physical activity contributes to improving fitness.

Other companies use a "suffer score" to rank and compare activities on intensity and cardio impact. There is also a concept called "metabolic equivalent" which is a method of comparing different activities based on intensity and energy expenditure. And then Nike had a variant called "fuel" in an attempt to rank and compare different activities.

[Timeflies1980]

Sorry but I disagree with this. A step is a step. It's a very specific measure. You don't do steps when biking so you should not get awarded them. Maybe the answer would be to compare active minutes? Just throwing some ideas out there...

[Baltoscott]

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@bbarrera wrote:

... 

With my phone in pants pocket, or jersey pocket, I get average about 450-550 steps/mile.

....

This is similar to what I get when I put fibit tracker into my pants pocket (One, Charge HR, or Blaze).  If I wear it on my wrist (Charge HR, or Blaze) step count per mile depends entirely on how bumpy the road is (hardy ever more than when I put the tracker in my pocket, though).

[kerrycrow]

yes, I agree with @Timeflies1980...I don't understand why people want to count "steps" for cycling...you can count the activity, and the calorie burn but a step is completely different than a pedal rotation.  one of the reasons I want to count actual steps is because iit is a weight bearing activity that I want to do more of....I cycle plenty but it is not weight bearing.  you don't get "steps" for swimming either.  It's a completely different exercise.  I don't want to get credit for bumps in the road!  (I cycle on some very bumpy roads, lol)

when I get false steps for cycling I can't figure out if I am actually improving the amount of weight bearing exercise that I do.

[Baltoscott]

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@bbarrera wrote:

@Shmaloney steps are not the answer. Which steps do you want? Short steps while pacing around the office? Slow walking steps? Fast walking steps? Running steps? Steps aren't created equal, and tell nothing about the intensity of your activity. Simply put, steps are a poor gauge of how physical activity contributes to improving fitness.

Other companies use a "suffer score" to rank and compare activities on intensity and cardio impact. There is also a concept called "metabolic equivalent" which is a method of comparing different activities based on intensity and energy expenditure. And then Nike had a variant called "fuel" in an attempt to rank and compare different activities.

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I agree that steps are a poor measure of true activity (mall steps, fast walking steps, running steps, biking steps are all very different).  On the other hand, "steps" are one of the only metrics that virtually all tracker brands have in common which is probably why they are used by health companies and others for discounts.  "Steps" are also achievable by almost anyone and maybe a little easier to understand that better metrics like METs or Nike's "fuel" (which never seems to have taken off though a huge company like Nike is (or at least was) pushing it).

[bbarrera]

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@Timeflies1980 wrote:
Sorry but I disagree with this. A step is a step. It's a very specific measure. You don't do steps when biking so you should not get awarded them. Maybe the answer would be to compare active minutes? Just throwing some ideas out there...

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Taking your points backwards....

I agree that comparing something like active minutes is a better goal. However active minutes doesn't take intensity into account. Its like giving credit for lifting weights, but not bothering to track how much weight.

How do you track improvement, or compare workouts? Thats why I suggested metabolic equivalents (METs) which Fitbit uses to award active minutes - you need 3+ METs for a minimum of 10 minutes to be awarded 10 active minute (source: http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/What-are-very-active-minutes/?q=active+minutes&l=...

So a 60 minute cycling workout at 10 METs, for say 0 steps, is:

- 60 active minutes

- 600 MET-active-minutes

which is more than 4 hours pacing in your office at 1.2 METs, for say 8000 steps:

- 0 active minutes 

- 0 MET-active-minutes (because you never exceeded 3 METs)

Regarding biking and swimming not being step based exercises, I agree you should not be awarded steps. If Fitbit rewards were based on MET-active-minutes, the primary reasons for wanting steps in non-step based exercise would vanish and folks would focus on getting active minutes. 

You'll note the CDC doesn't recommend steps:

http://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm

CDC recommendations are essentially:

- 2+ strength training sessions per week

- 150+ minutes moderate to vigorous cardio per week

Regarding your first point, I don't agree that a step is a step as its not an objective measure of anything related to fitness. There are days when I rack up 10,000 steps pacing around my office while on conference calls. These are tiny steps. My heart rate is 80-100bpm. These are "junk steps" from a fitness point-of-view, and can't be compared to the steps when running sub 10-minute miles, or walking fast to raise heart rate.

Again the problem is that Fitbit reward system is entirely step based. And because of that challenges are step based, and reductions in monthly health insurance premiums are step based. You could be cycling and living a healthier lifestyle, with stronger cardiovascular system, and not get 10,000 steps a day, meanwhile someone pacing around the office is rewarded for 10,000 steps/day. Silly.

Until Fitbit changes the reward system, if ever, there are workarounds if you really want to be awarded steps for cycling.

[Baltoscott]

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@DaneNicholson wrote:
I'm using a Surge and assume it's the same as Blaze... So with that caveat:

If you don't turn on bike mode you get a lot more steps. And the auto tracking feature for exercise manages to figure out I'm biking, it just means I don't have GPS. Since I commute on a fixed route I couldn't care less about GPS in my specific application.
...

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@DaneNicholson -- I think Blaze does that too.  I've been comparing it to my Charge HR, and noticed significantly fewer steps from bike rides using connected GPS as compared to the Charge HR on the other wrist for the same ride.  If I don't use Connected GPS on the Blaze, both trackers have a similar step count and the auto track feature still recognizes the activity as a bike ride.  So those who WANT more bike steps should probably avoid using connected gps for bike rides.  Those who want to track the activity but minimize bike steps should use connected gps.

[Shmaloney]

Steps are certainly not a perfect metric of overall activity. However, it is the most commonly used metric for office challenges or things like the "Global Corporate Challenge" (GCC). All office challenges I have been in, including the GCC, allow for a step conversion from other activities such as cycling and swimming.

What I suggest is a simple conversion be used to indicate "equivalent" steps (rather than actual steps). This is similar to the world of measuring greenhouse gases as Carbon Dioxide (CO2, the most common GHG) vs CO2e (CO2 equivalent, which factors in other GHGs such as methane and SF6). The other GHGs are converted into terms of CO2 even though they are NOT CO2.

What I suggest as far as steps and equivalent steps should be very simple. It's a straightforward calculation. And while there are people who do not want to track anything but actual steps, it would be very easy to not track anything but actual steps.

This suggestion really only applies to the rest of us that are actually interested in tracking overall activity. If it were up to me, I would not track this under the imperfect "steps" metric. But it's not up to me. I participate in company programs and I have to play with the hand I'm dealt. It would be nice if fitbit or some other wearable device made that simple.

[Slayer33]

I believe this should still be made an option for fitbit users... select the biking activity and then have a prompt to an option to count steps or not to count steps. And make it consistent.. like average all things considered and make it 800 steps per km ridden (on the low side). I commuted into work today with a friend, same ride, same distance and we both currently have the Charge. We both wore them on our wrists and we rode in tandem. We tried to match our cadences and everything to see what we would get. The ride was 17 kilometers.

The results?

I achieved 2217 steps, 30 floors after 17km and 40 minutes of riding

He achieved 4692 steps, 23 floors after 17km and 40 minutes of riding.

My blaze should be here any day now.. but so far i'm pretty upset about those numbers and don't know if I will keep my blaze when it comes in.

I usually walk close to 18000 steps a day... I was really expecting this to put me over the top by adding 80 minutes of cycling (34kms).... but to have this count so little and so inconsistently is pretty disappointing. If I was only given 600 steps (thats approximately 6ft per step) for each km ridden then i wouldve accumulated 10200 steps... but instead i got 2217.

[Baltoscott]

@Slayer33 -  if steps are important to you when you ride (for whatever reason) put the tracker in your front pocket or sock.  Then, instead of counting the bumps transmitted from the road to your wrist, you will get something closer to what you would get walking fast for the same period of time.  When looking at exercise time instead of distance covered, I can do about 7500-8000 steps/hr walking fast and I get around 5500-6000 steps/hr when I ride (if I put the tracker in my front pocket).  If your HR data for the ride is more important to you you will need to leave the tracker on your wrist and your step count will vary depending on how bumpy the road is and whether you are using the dominant or non dominant hand setting (non-dominant is more sensitive so it will probably get you more steps).

[bbarrera]

With iPhone 5s as tracker, and in my pocket, and this morning got 9,000 steps per hour while spinning (average HR = 133bpm). Yesterday I rode 19mph for an 70 minutes and got 8,000 steps per hour (average HR = 150bpm). Moral of story? Work harder and get less steps! LOL. Difference probably because phone is in pants pocket while spinning, and back jersey pocket while cycling.

While riding outside (18-21mph), its roughly 450-550 steps per mile, or 280-340 steps per km. But yesterday was even lower at 400 steps per mile (250 steps per km).

Oddly I can walk fast and get same number of steps per hour, however HR is lower, only 120bpm. 

Problem of course is that I can pace around my office while on conference calls for 4 hours, with HR much much lower, say 50% maxHR, and get 10,000 steps. Not even a workout.

As I like to say "not all steps are created equal" and I think steps are a terrible way to measure fitness. Fitbit essentially started as a pedometer company, and still clings to steps as reward system. I don't get it. But what do I know? Just an old dude that found fitness at 50, can ride like the wind now, and I don't care how many steps I get as it has nothing to do with fitness 😉

[Slayer33]

One of the biggest reasons why i purchased a fitbit was to be able to compete with family and friends in challenges and 7-day totals... So definitely steps are important to me as it keeps me motiviated to keep moving.

As for the pocket/sock idea, I'm actually going to put my fitbit on my shoe for the ride home and see what I get.

At the moment HR isn't a big concern for me, and my charge doesn't have that feature so I'll see what i get from trying it this way..