Any Nutritarians Out There?

[DEF1123]

Hello, I was wondering if there are any fellow Nutritarians out there?  If you are unfamiliar with the term, a nutritarian is someone who bases their diet on the most nutrient dense foods available.  It is based on the work of Dr. Joel Fuhrman who has written many books on the topic.  

Hope to meet a few here,

Donna

[GershonSurge]

@Bogdel,

Thanks. I watched the video the other day. It's excellent.

I'm a bit feisty today after reading about half of "Fast Food Genocide." You can read my other posts if you like. They are referenced in my profile.

[Bogdel]

@GershonSurge, Thanks. Will do. 

[GershonSurge]

Are People Losing their Taste?

I saw this cartoon in Dr. Joel Fuhrman's book, "Fast Food Genocide."

Dr. Fuhrman discussed how much mercury and other chemicals collect in the bodies of people who eat a lot of fish. Well, I look for sources for many of the things I read; I found this chart:

Look how the percentage of fatalities has consistently decreased. Apparently, people now taste like

*ahem to quote Cheech and Chong.  We are what we eat, right? Well if a shark won't eat people, why wouldn't they change their diet to become tastier? I overheard a couple sharks talking, and one cautioned the other to only eat free range people. 

[Dstarchyme]

Ah, another McDougaller. I posted about McDougalling in the wrong forum I see. 🙂 Glad to have found this one.

[Dstarchyme]

I have never heard Dr. McDougall refer to starches as sugar. Well, he doesn't call them complex carbs either. He doesn't identify a carb as food but starches as food. A carb is a macronutrient found in food but not food itself. Same for protein. It is a macro but not food in and of itself. The same for fat. 

[Dstarchyme]

I am not sure where you are located and buy food, but here in my area of CA, the cost of those things you listed are double if not triple in some cases for those foods. Following the McDougall way of eating, I feed a family of 5 on about $700 per month. 

[Dstarchyme]

Well, apparently I don't not know how to quote anyone here. The original post I replied to showed up when I was typing my comment. sigh. 

[GershonSurge]

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@Dstarchyme wrote:

Well, apparently I don't not know how to quote anyone here. The original post I replied to showed up when I was typing my comment. sigh. 

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Thanks for joining us. I'm looking forward to hearing your insights. 

Click "Reply" on the post you wish to quote. Type a character and select the line above it. Then click on "Quote" at the top right. Delete the parts of the quote you don't want to reference. 

Cost used to be a major obstacle for me until I mentally divided the plate into calories for energy and vitamins for health. I ended up with about $4.70/2000 calories. About a dollar less since I learned how to cook dried beans and even more since I learned that fresh vegetables are cheaper than frozen.

Except for Brussel Sprouts, I don't buy fresh vegetables that cost more than $2.00/lb. My net cost is about $1.70/pound and I eat about a pound a day. As it turns out, most of these are nutrient dense. 

My way of eating is a mix of my interpretation of Kellogg, Pritikin, McDougall, Esselstyn, Campbell, McDougall and Fuhrman. Let's call that the big print names in the credits. There are many smaller print names. I could easily set out a buffet that would satisfy everyone. In fact, except for Dr. Kellogg's inclusion of milk, they could probably switch plates without too much fuss. It could be an interesting dinner party. Maybe combine it with a murder mystery. Of course, the murderer would be SAD.

I'll pass on some references on Dr. McDougall referring to carbs as sugar when I find one.

[ScottHsv]

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@Bogdel wrote:

@ScottHsv, @GershonSurge, and @Daves_Not_Here, If I understand correctly, the difference between the Whole Food Plant Base advocated by Dr. McDougal et all, and the Nutritarian lifestyle advocated by Dr. Fuhrman is this:

1. The Whole Food Plant Base diet includes white potatoes, white rise, and white flower, which are all plant based, but have a high glucemic index, high calories, and low nutritional value. 

2. The nutritarian lifestyle excludes anything that is white (sugar, flour, white potatoes, white rise, margarine, and butter), and focuses on G-BOMBS (acronym for Greens, Beans, Onions (including garlic), Mushrooms, Berries, and Seeds (including all kinds of nuts and seeds). The G-BOMBS secures an excellent balance rich in nutrients, and low in calories. 

For starch, Dr. Fuhrman recommends a very limited amount of oats, squash, sweet potatoes, and unprocessed whole wheat. For protein, Dr. Fuhrman recommends that we include some kind of beans and mushrooms every day.  As far as fats, the nutritarian diet does not allow any kind of oil. Instead, it includes the avocados, nuts, and seeds as the primary source of healthy, unprocessed oil. The antioxidants come from the berries. 

Hope this helps. 

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Wow, @Bogdel and @GershonSurge this is a fascinating exchange of information. I think we are well past this point but just for clarity, check out the link below for what is and is not considered acceptable for a WHole Food Plant Based diet:

Whole Food, Plant-Based Diet Guide

I'm really excited to read Dr. Furhman's books and Dr. Campbell's book "Whole". For now, I'm continually trying to refine my eating style to eliminate processed foods and eat as exclusively WFPB as possible. I may have to weigh in later with some pictures of my own meals to get your feedback. 

[GershonSurge]

@ScottHsv,

Thanks for the link. A person starting the WFPB might consider carrying a copy to the supermarket.

I'm going to start getting more academic in my posts and annotate references. When appropriate, I'll quote the source so others can go to it.

This comes from my highlights in Whole. There are a few words missing as it's difficult to go across pages.

Highlight (yellow) - 1 The Modern Health-Care Myth > Page 7 · Location 372

Consume plant-based foods in forms as close to their natural state as possible (“ whole” foods). Eat a variety of vegetables, fruits, raw nuts and seeds, beans and legumes, and whole grains. Avoid heavily processed foods and animal products. Stay away from added salt, oil, and sugar. Aim to get 80 percent of your calories from carbohydrates, 10 percent from fat, and 10 percent from protein.

Highlight (yellow) - 1 The Modern Health-Care Myth > Page 7 · Location 373

state as possible (“ whole” foods). Eat a variety of vegetables, fruits, raw nuts and seeds, beans and legumes, and whole grains. Avoid heavily processed foods and animal products. Stay away from added salt, oil, and sugar. Aim to get 80 percent of your calories from carbohydrates, 10 percent from fat, and 10 percent from protein

Dr. Campbell is fond of using the elephant and the blind men parable. I'd say the nutritional giants are looking at slightly different sides of the same elephant. However, they exchange information with each other and many others so the parable isn't as accurate as it looks. A person could choose McDougall, Esselstyn, Ornish, Campbell, Furhman, Cooper, Pritikin, Gregor and some others I've forgotten as their only teacher and have the same health results. A person new to nutritional health would likely have the most success by choosing all the books by one of the above and dogmatically following it.

[Bogdel]

@ScottHsv, Thanks for the link to Dr, Campbell's page. That is an excellent and very comprehensive summary of a Whole Food Plant Based diet. It is the closest that I have seen to Dr. Fuhrman's Nutritarian diet. I think everyone should read it. I may pass it on to other people who are interested. 

I have followed the Nutritarian lifestyle for 2+ years, and have come a long way,  but I am still not 100% there. Making changes takes time, and we need to stay motivated through reading and being part of a like-minded community, such as this. 

[GershonSurge]

@Bogdel, @ScottHsv

Bogdel said:

Making changes takes time, and we need to stay motivated through reading and being part of a like-minded community, such as this. 

Lately, I've been reading about behavioral therapy. It's a tangent, so I won't cover it in depth. Basically, the few studies I've read show that people lose minimal weight even over five years with a support group. The flaw in the studies is they don't reference a way of eating, but I think the concept of continued research and a support group is true. I've found like-minded groups function best when the focus is on the source material, and they focus on what the writer said. I suggest we focus on Dr. Campbell's page and study it in depth.

This morning, I noticed there are three tabs on top of the page referencing foods to eat. There is a tab for foods to eat sparingly and foods to avoid.

Learning works best when it's immediately followed by action. It also works best when small steps are taken on the way to the ultimate goal. I suggest a supermarket excursion based on the video on the page. Outline the walkthrough in the video before going and duplicate it. Take pictures along the way. Some stores don't allow this, but I figure it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. If challenged, tell the truth. Then bore the security guard with a long dissertation about Whole Food Plant Based eating.

For those that make the excursion, post comments here. Tilt them towards your favorite plant-based way of eating if you like. 

[DiabetesFree]

It's a lifetime commitment and becomes less of a struggle. Our world here,
makes decision making and good choices a conscious act. I'm now 2 months in
to no sweeteners (good or bad) and no animal products at all. It's getting
easier. My body seems to be taking control somehow. It's informing me when
I'm hungry, or not.
--
Thank you, Mark

[ScottHsv]

Thanks for the quotes, @GershonSurge, I've been wondering what macros I should be targeting! I'm not evene close to that currently but now at least I have a goal. I am continually making changes to my diet and refining to get better and better. I'm certainly not perfect. I also just noticed that they have vegan meat analog foods as "red light" foods to avoid. I must admit recently I've been incorporating too many of those in my diet and I'm now on a mission to eliminate them. Those foods are also high in fat and cutting them out will go a long way toward achieving an 80/10/10 objective.

Also, I love the analogy of the blind man and the elephant. Science usually goes this way and I'm throughly convinced your comment is true that no matter what plant-based guru you choose to follow, there is an extremely high probability that you will reclaim health and vitality by choosing to eat whole plant foods and eliminate processed foods and animal products.

[GershonSurge]

@ScottHsv,

Counting macros is a distraction that I'll cover in a couple days. Focus on the foods in the list and concoct any recipe you wish from those foods. As long as you eat a variety, the macros will work out close enough.

Having said this, while explaining macro counting, I'll give examples to show they work out.

[ScottHsv]

@GershonSurge what is in your "grated blend of nine high nutrient vegetables"? How do you make it and how long does it last in the fridge? I'm curious because it looks like a good idea as a convenient way to add a variety of vegetables to any meal.

[GershonSurge]

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@ScottHsv wrote:

@GershonSurge what is in your "grated blend of nine high nutrient vegetables"? How do you make it and how long does it last in the fridge? I'm curious because it looks like a good idea as a convenient way to add a variety of vegetables to any meal.

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Start with the two B's and Two C's. Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower and Cabbage.

Then go down the aisle and buy anything below $2.00/lb. Brighter and richer colors have the most antioxidants.

Select purple cabbage because it's brighter and lasts longer than green cabbage.

Broccoli one of the super-foods. Grate the stems, too.

If they have it, get yellow cauliflower. It looks like grated cheese and can be used many places for color.

I only use about three Brussell sprouts a day, so even though they are usually expensive, I don't buy many.

I almost always include carrots. I get the baby carrots as they are easier to wash.

Do NOT use onions as they tend to make the mixture soggy. You can add them as you eat.

You can add kale if you like, but I prefer to use it for other dishes.

Leave the cover loose on the container. This will keep the mixture from getting soggy. It will also release antioxidants that will prevent other vegetables in the refrigerator from spoiling if you leave the bags open.

It lasts 2 or 3 days before it gets a little dry. You can toss it in a soup then.

[GershonSurge]

@ScottHsv,

I decided to release the macro distraction now so you don't have to wait.

I input a meal into Fitbit. I used breakfast so the picture would be smaller. Note the macros before scrolling past the picture. I could go crazy trying to adjust the macros to 80/10/10, but it's a pointless reductionist exercise. I'll explain why below the picture.

Let's say I eat this four times during the day for a total of 2,080 calories. Suppose I burn 2,980 calories. Where do the extra 900 calories come from? From what I call my famine reserve. I'd just burn 900 calories from body fat or 100 grams.

Let's put seven tablespoons (1.75/meal) of olive oil in the menu as it's pure fat. Watch what happens to the macros the body actually consumes. 

Look at that! Now our "diet" is up to 33% fat. The difference is the body meters the excess fat burned in precisely the manner it wants to. There shouldn't be any overload to the system as there isn't that instant hit to the blood that a person gets consuming say...a hamburger. 

d

[Bogdel]

@GershonSurge & @ScottHsv. What a great idea! I'm in!

I just came from the grocery store (Sprouts Farmers' Market). I bought a lot of organic things, including dandelion, parsley, carrots, tomatoes, and celery. I use all these in my salad. I already have lettuce, kale, and green onion. I usually make two large glass bowels of salad, cover them with a PBS free, airtight lid, and keep it in the refrigerator. It lasts my husband and me most of the week. 

When I serve my salad, I grab a handful from the salad bowel, and then add 1/2 avocado, a handful of dried cranberries, 2-3 raw mushrooms, 1 tomato, 1 oz of seeds or nuts, and 2-3 tbs of beans (any kind). By the time I add all these, I have a huge salad that is both filling (I can barely finish it), and highly nutritious (G-BOMBS). I don't normally use salad dressing.

Sometimes, if I want to drink my salad, I also add a clove of garlic and about 1" of ginger root, and run it through the blender. Garlic and ginger add extra flavor and cholesterol lowering properties. 

I also started a kidney cleanse today. This is the first time I am doing this, so... will see. 

What about you two? Any new tips that I could borrow? 

[Bogdel]

@Dstarchyme, @ScottHsv, @DiabetesFree, @ScottHsv, @GershonSurge,

I received an invitation to watch a free docu-series on Food Revolution. It's only going to be free for 21 hours (starting April 28). After that, it needs to be purchased. I honestly don't know what to expect, but I signed in. I thought some of you (or your friends) may be interested. So, I am posting the link for you here. Click here to watch this inspiring video now.

Regards!