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Any Nutritarians Out There?

Hello, I was wondering if there are any fellow Nutritarians out there?  If you are unfamiliar with the term, a nutritarian is someone who bases their diet on the most nutrient dense foods available.  It is based on the work of Dr. Joel Fuhrman who has written many books on the topic.  

 

Hope to meet a few here,

Donna

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@GershonSurge, I wrote a reply the other day, and then i lost it. So, I will attempt do write again. 

 

First, Dr. Fuhrman is in agreement with Dr. McGregor on the benefits of nuts. They are good both for the heart and for the mind (notice the brain shape of most nuts?). 

Secondly, I was surprised to read that Dr. Esselstyn says that nuts are a "rich source of saturated fats". So, I went to "Dr. Google" and asked, "what kind of fats are in nuts?" This is what he said:

 

"Besides being packed with protein, most nuts contain at least some of these heart-healthy substances: Unsaturated fats. It's not entirely clear why, but it's thought that the "good" fats in nuts — both monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats — lower bad cholesterol levels. Omega-3 fatty acids."

Mayo Clinic seems to agree with that : https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/nuts/art-20046635

It is true that they have high caloric index (it's really un-processed oil), but if we limit ourselves to 1 oz/day, we should be safe. Even more, the healthy fat, in combination with the green vegetables, helps assimilate the nutrients from our food much better. 

Dr. Fuhrman says that those who want to gain weight, could have 2 oz of nuts. In fact, as I think about it, most (if not all) of Dr. Fuhrman's recipes contain some kind of nuts and/or seeds. Here is an example (there are many more on YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQmKwFKT8RI

 

Hope you have a great week!

 

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@GershonSurge, Looks great! It appears to me like you are following Dr. McDougall's school of thought, more than the other guys. Am I wrong? 

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@Bogdel @ScottHsv  Another good dessert in addition to the nicecream is DrFuhrman’s Avocado chocolate pudding. We make his black bean brownies and then put a dollop of the avocado chocolate pudding on top. Decadent and deelish!

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@Bogdel,

 

I think we are in agreement about how many nuts we can eat a day. I'll use them if I get behind in calories for the day. I'm agnostic about the nutritional benefits as other vegetables have the same benefits. Most of the descriptions are done by the companies that sell the product, so all the descriptions are great. My agnosticism doesn't affect how many I eat. 

 

Both Dr. Fuhrman and Dr. McDougall allow for tilting towards or away from starches depending on the person's needs. I'm tilting towards starches as I'm in maintenance, and it's hard for me to eat enough calories without them. I'll alternate based on whether I'm above or below my desired weight.

 

There is a more important issue-- how much salt to eat. I'll try to make a post about salt later today.

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@Bogdel wrote:

 

"Besides being packed with protein, most nuts contain at least some of these heart-healthy substances: Unsaturated fats. It's not entirely clear why, but it's thought that the "good" fats in nuts — both monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats — lower bad cholesterol levels. Omega-3 fatty acids."

Mayo Clinic seems to agree with that : https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/nuts/art-20046635 


McDougall (and, with him, @GershonSurge) believes all fats are intrinsically bad. In fact, not only that, but even poisonous. Therefore you won’t convince him unsaturated vs. saturated, or mono- vs. poly- makes any difference: they’re all the same, plain bad.

Dominique | Finland

Ionic, Aria, Flyer, TrendWeight | Windows 7, OS X 10.13.5 | Motorola Moto G6 (Android 9), iPad Air (iOS 12.4.4)

Take a look at the Fitbit help site for further assistance and information.

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@GershonSurge, about nuts, again. I've been listening last night to the interview of Dr. William Li, MD, on "The Science of Cancer Prevention, Diet and Cancer | Beneficial Gut Bacteria | Tips for Optimizing Nutritional Benefits | Lutein and Eye Health". I was surprised and amazed to hear how important nuts are for cancer prevention and reversal. I didn't know that aspect of the nut benefit. Also, everyone on yesterday's interview on Food Revolution Summit spoke VERY highly about the important role the berries in general, and the blueberries in particular have both on cancer prevention and the overall health (heart, brain, liver, kidneys, gut, etc.). This Food revolution Summit turns out to be quite good. They spend one hour with each of their guest, most of which are worldwide experts in their particular field. Dr. William Li has helped tens of thousands of cancer patients reverse their disease. He gave outstanding, scientific explanation about the role of specific plant foods in out body. I am curious what today is going to be. I guess i'll be listening to it as soon as I finish checking my email. 

 

Yes, I agree with you, each plant contributes to our health, and healing process. 

 

Yesterday I cooked a recipe on egg plant burger that I found on YouTube. Unlike the chef that demonstrated the cooking, I did not use bread buns, and I added a couple of mushrooms. It was pretty good. I imagine it would have tasted even better with whole wheat hamburger buns. Here's the link, if you are interested to try (he has some other vegan recipes that I would like to try in the future): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uwdm0qCp50&t=336s

 

Have a great day!

 

P.S. I just remembered. Dr. William Li has a web-page where he hopes to reach people on a global level for the purpose of educating them on cancer prevention. He also offers cancer preventive recipes. I downloaded the recipes in my PC. If you or someone else is interested, I'll post the link bellow:

https://www.eattobeat.org/

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@Dominique, I thought Dr. McDougall, like Dr. Fuhrman, was against oil because it was processed, and has high caloric density, but was open to all plants, including nuts and seeds. Of course, I didn't study Dr. McDougall's school of thought well enough. I just recently started to listen to him. The fact that he insists on starchy foods caused me to favor Fuhrman, and focus on him mostly. This group is good for me, because I am learning to listen more to other WFPB experts. 

I don't think @GershonSurge is against nuts. He just didn't pay much attention to them in the past, but I better let him clarify our dilemma, both in regards to Dr. McDougall and to himself (smiling). 

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@Water_Dog, Thank you for that! I have DrFuhrman’s Avocado chocolate pudding recipe and I looked at it, but now that you said that you like it, I am definitely going to try it. I bet my husband would love the brownies, too. 

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@Bogdel@Dominique,

 

Dr. McDougall cautions against eating nuts mostly because people tend to eat half a jar of salted nuts instead of limiting them to one ounce. Peanuts are about four calories apiece, and it's easy to add a few hundred calories to the day without thinking about it. He suggests people trying to lose weight avoid them. He suggests others limit themselves to an ounce a day. I don't recall him saying eating more causes any special problems.

 

Dr. McDougall, Dr. Campbell, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Fuhrman and others all say added processed oils increase cancer growth, especially for those who eat animal products. They all recommend aiming for 10% fat in the diet. The main reason for this that I can figure out is that eating an extra hundred calories of fat means the person can't eat carbs or proteins or nutrient-rich vegetables that are more useful to us. Also, additional fat becomes fat on the body. 

 

There is a danger that we can get stuck in a reductionist loop of which food is slightly better than another and forget the big picture. It's fun but not as productive as moving on through Dr. Campbell's site.

 

I suggest we move to the FAQ on eating well on a budget.  I don't feel anyone covers this topic adequately with concrete examples. At first glance, eating healthy food seems expensive, but it's not. This discussion will also answer the question "What do I eat?"

 

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Eating Well on a Budget

 

In my opinion, none of the Doctors we follow do enough to explain how to eat well on a budget. They all say a person doesn't need to spend much money, but they don't express in detail how to accomplish this. I'll show how through a building block process that will eventually satisfy everyone's preference for types of food.

 

This example is for some staples:

 

18 05 03 1037.JPG

 

My convention is data only needs to be entered in light blue cells. Once a food is entered, all that needs to change is the cost. Note the cost/2000 calories is about $1.75/2000 calories for all of them. If the actual serving size a person eats is entered in the next to last column, it calculates the cost/actual serving.

 

Note: All weights are dry. I measure in grams with a scale. 

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@GershonSurge, Very impressive. I copied your chart into my Ms. Excel. I am going to attempt to enter some of the foods that I eat and get a more accurate cost for myself. Usually, I eat about 1000 Cal/day +/-. I will be going on a short vacation in about a week, so I don't have time to focus on this very much in the immediate future, but it is worth doing this. 

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@Bogdel,

 

I added a column and added some foods.

 

18 05 03 1719.JPG

 

The first column is the aisle number. The idea is to take the whole list each time you shop. Put a slash through the column if you want to get it. Make an "x" in the column when you put it in the cart. Circle the slash if they are out. In the second column put the price you paid if it's different than the last time. Update it when you get home.

 

I did something different at the supermarket today. I brought enough reusable bags to hold my groceries plus one. I organized my shopping by how I wanted to fill the bags. I filled the bags in the cart. Then as the cashier rang up the first bag, I filled the extra one. When she was done with a bag, she put it on the belt and I used it for the next bag. Sure saved time when I got home. 

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@GershonSurge, Thanks for doing this. Looks like pasting your chart into my Ms. Excel is not allowing me to build on it (it appears like yours is a screen shot). I need to re-do it directly into Excel. However, having your numbers will save me time, as I don't have to look them up. This is a great exercise and a great idea. 

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@Bogdel,

 

The table shows the vegetables I bought yesterday. Usually, I add a couple more to my vege-pot, but I don't have prices handy.

 

18 05 04 0612.JPG

 

 

Look at the yellow cell in the upper right corner. If a person ate no starches, it would cost $17.41/1000 calories or $522.30/month. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how most people can afford to avoid starches. (I'll add nuts later.)

 

My next project is to make a chart so a person can see an affordable balance based on their finances.

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@GershonSurge, This is very interesting. I know that I spend less than that, and I don't eat much starch - except for yums, and rolled oats, every once in a while. I also eat nuts almost daily. Maybe it has to do with my cooking. I usually make a big pot of soup, which lasts me for about a week. 

 

I've been busy lately, as I am getting ready for a couple of trips, but I'd like to get into your mode of thinking when you calculate these figures, so that I may work on my own chart. This is very helpful. So, please, keep working on it. Obviously, I'd like to eat the best for the least amount of money. Of course, I am looking for sales, and when I see some, I buy larger quantities. For example, I like red bell peppers and avocados. Typically, they are very expensive ($1/piece), which I never buy. But every once in a while, I find them for 3 pieces/1$, and then I buy larger quantities, and they usually last in the fridge. The same goes for nuts - whenever I see a discount for bulk nuts, I buy a variety of nuts in larger quantities, and they last us for awhile. Since I don't use oils (with rare exceptions), nuts are my main source of healthy fats. In fact, I use cashew butter in some of my soups. 

 

Any way, this is both fun and useful. I hope you keep me posted on your findings. 

 

Best wishes!

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@Bogdel,

I think you can cut and paste this spreadsheet into Excel. I'll have some more comments in the morning about Dr. McDougall & Dr. Fuhrman. 

 

Notice I ate for $4.05 today. 🙂

 

           Totals$4.052419
           cost/ 2500$4.192500
/buy x bot O outPrice changeFoodCostTotal Gramsserving size (g)servingsCal/ servingCost/ servingCost/ 2000 calcost /gramActual serving sizeCostCalories
5 Pinto Beans$3.491810355290$0.07$1.50$0.0019257$0.50661
b Stacy's whole wheat tortilla$1.495905910150$0.15$1.99$0.0025118$0.30300
4 King Arthur Whole Wheat Flour (for pancakes)$3.4922705442180$0.08$0.92$0.001554$0.08180
vc 5 lb Red Potatoes$6.99227014016110$0.43$7.84$0.0031   
vc Kidney beans$2.999073526120$0.12$1.92$0.0033   
vc Steel Cut Oatmeal$2.959084022140$0.13$1.86$0.0032133$0.43466
vc Brown rice$2.999084520170$0.15$1.74$0.0033125$0.41472
8 Barilla Whole Wheat Rotini$1.50454568180$0.19$2.06$0.0033   
  Kroger dry roasted unsalted peanuts$2.504542816170$0.15$1.81$0.0055   
  Simple Truth Walnut Halves & Pieces$6.993362812188$0.58$6.20$0.0208   
              
  yellow cauliflower $  1.9945410452$0.04$43.83$0.004440$0.188
  Brocolli $  1.7945410453$0.04$26.28$0.003940$0.1612
  Green pepper $  0.8920510213$0.04$28.94$0.004340$0.1712
  Red Radishes $  1.4945410450.01$0.03$6,563.88$0.003340$0.130
  celery $  0.8945410453$0.02$13.07$0.002040$0.0812
  Purple cabbage $  0.8945410452.2$0.02$17.82$0.002040$0.089
  Brussell Sprouts $  2.4945410450.01$0.05$10,969.16$0.005540$0.220
  Kroger whole carrots $  0.7945410454$0.02$8.70$0.001740$0.0716
              
  pineapple $  2.991536541024$0.11$8.76$0.001954$0.1124
  Mandarin Orange $  6.992270832740$0.26$12.78$0.0031166$0.5180
  Red Grapes $  1.9945456840$0.25$12.27$0.0044111$0.4979
  Banana $  0.59454100580$0.13$3.25$0.0013110$0.1488
  Blueberries $  3.88504202511$0.15$27.99$0.0077   
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WOW! @GershonSurge, Thank you! Yes, I was able to paste it into Ms. Excel in a way that allows me to enter new items. It's so kind of you to do that. 

 

Blessings!

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@Bogdel,

 

I think the reason your food bill is low is you are eating far fewer calories than I am. I average about 2,700 calories a day. That will be reduced to about 2,500 in the future. I'm spending less than $150 a month for 2,500 calories.

 

I've been playing with the spreadsheet and derived a method for those who just want to eat and not learn all the other things. Most people have other priorities.

 

I grouped the foods by starches, beans and bean substitutes (including nuts), non-starchy vegetables and fruits. 

 

They can take one serving of each at each meal and do fine. However, it's better to take two serving spoons of rice (or substitute) to one part beans to prevent consuming too much protein, which can lead to long-term kidney problems.

 

Nuts are a special case. I figure 1 gram/100 calories consumed during the day. Dr. Fuhrman might say 2 grams/100 calories consumed during the day.

 

One serving of fruit per meal if desired. If not, add an extra serving of non-starchy vegetables.

 

This should get a person under $5.00/2500 calories and meet all their nutrition needs. 

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Excess Starch Does Not Turn to Body Fat:

A widely held myth holds that the sugars in starches are readily converted into fat, which is then stored visibly in our abdomen, hips, and buttocks. If you read the published research, you will see that there is no disagreement about this whatsoever among scientists, and that they say that this is incorrect! 6– 14 After eating, we break down the complex carbohydrates in starchy foods into simple sugars. These sugars are absorbed into the bloodstream, where they are transported to trillions of cells throughout the body for energy. If you eat more carbohydrate than your body needs, you’ll store up to 2 pounds of it invisibly in the muscles and liver in the form of glycogen. If you eat more carbohydrate than you can use (as your daily energy) and store (as glycogen), you’ll burn the remainder off as body heat and through physical movement other than sports, such as walking to work, typing, yard work, and fidgeting. 10,14,15

McDougall, John; McDougall, Mary. The Starch Solution: Eat the Foods You Love, Regain Your Health, and Lose the Weight for Good! (Kindle Locations 554-563). Rodale. Kindle Edition.

 

The studies referenced interventional studies where people were fed carbohydrates far in excess of their calories burned while and still lost weight. In other words, they seemingly violated the calorie equation. As far as I could tell, they used very high carb diets for these experiments.

 

The fact that carbs cannot be converted to fat has significant implications for those trying to maintain their weight. The usual reaction to losing a bit of weight is to regain it by eating more. This doesn't work on a way of eating where the fat consumed is around 10%. The only macro that can be turned to fat is fat, so the person must increase the amount of fat in their diet. This means eating foods like nuts or avocados in enough quantity to regain the fat. 

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Oh, @GershonSurge, I truly hope this is true  but, in my experience, as soon as I eat starch, I can see the scale going up, and with that, the fat cells filling up around my abs. 

I am in Florida momentarily, on a short vacation. I enjoy every moment of it, swimming in the ocean and sun bathing but, don't ask me about my diet... I broke every  nutritarian principle that I have so faithfully adopted and embraced in the last 2+ years. Thankfully, I will be back home in a couple of days and return to my lovely, healthy, nutritarian  lifestyle again :).

Best wishes to you all!

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