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Manually logged steps don't count for challenges or lifetime

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I think this needs to be reconsidered FitBit!
 
https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Fitbit-com-Dashboard/Manually-Logged-Steps-Not-Counting-Towards-Lead...
 
Manually logged steps do not count towards your 7-day leaderboards, in addition to Activity Groups. This change was implemented in order to mirror the behavior of Challenges, where only tracker data is pulled into the equation- this helps keep things fair.
 
I think it is BS that you are looking to cater towards the small number of people who will cheat just to win a challenge that proves nothing. When a company is tailoring it's product ideas towards cheaters and not towards the thousands of dedicated and motivated fitness users subscribed to their product, the company should take a long hard look at themselves.
 
You are greatly affecting people who use other methods of exercise other than "Steps". For example, swimming, cycling, treadmill and any others that appear in the above post.
 
I have also emailed you a formula to use when adding steps for Swimming and Cycling, as used by the Global Corporate Challenge.

 

Moderator edit: Format & updated subject for clarity

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118 REPLIES 118

This is a lame excuse. There's at least one other forum thread with over thirteen pages

 

Moderator edit: format

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EXACTLY!
Couldnt put it better myself!
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You're using an argument known as reductio ad absurdum. It's perfectly easy and acceptable to a high degree of accuracy to manually log a 2 hour "insane" hike. Comparing it to a soccer match is reducing the argument to an absurd extreme. Just because there are a couple of activities which cannot be objectively calculated manually (usually something dealing with a sport where the goal isn't based on distance tracking)

your next argument after reducing it to the absurd is to basically state that making a system would be really hard.

 

Your argument about fairness is the heart of the matter. The amount of activities that a person can easily calculate their achievement far surpasses the amount of activities that would be more subjective if left to a person to manually enter the information. In essence you do more to add to the argument that the current system is in fact not fair than you do to justify it. By eliminating any form of manual entry counting towards a person's progress based on a grossly inferior number of activities which would pose an issue you (not you personally unless you helped create the system) have created a system that is much more unfair. Not a system that is more fair as you try to claim. 

 

I do not agree with the statements claiming it caters towards cheaters. The people claiming that are angry and are displaying profound ignorance and illogical reasoning. Catering to cheaters by definition would mean creating a system which favors or rewards cheating. I in fact believe Fitbit is interested in doing the opposite and keeping things a fair playing field. But the approach is so extreme and heavy handed that it creates a system that is just as bad or worse than one that has no regulations to ensure fairness. It doesn't cater to cheaters at all but rather allows the very small minority of people who would cheat (in order to gain a false sense of accomplishment) disproportionately influence how the system is set up. Whereas the majority of people are honest the current system treats them as if they were also dishonest cheaters. 

 

So we are not only barred from entering in data that is both accurately calculated and honest. But made to feel as if we've are being treated as cheaters. 

 

Now considering most of us only compete against actual friends or family we know well enough to determine if what that person manually enters is within the realm of truth (like a friend who is grossly overweight and never exercises would not get away with claiming they completed the NYC marathon) and considering that the number of activities which cannot be accurately entered manually could be made the exceptions to manually entered data (as most are sports related and easily programmed to not count) it's easy to conclude the current system is the result of overthinking something that is much simpler I just reality when no the reduced to the most absurd or extreme arguments (if I used this type of logical reasoning I could make a case that vegetables are major carcinogens and toxic so should be avoided at all costs). 

 

So no cheaters are not catered to and how anyone concludes such a thing has never explained how cheaters benefit from this system. In that I most certainly agree that the primary concern is fairness. However eliminating all manual entries based on extreme examples and treating everyone as if they are all cheaters actually undoes the stated goal of being fair as well as insult people I just the process. I myself only compete against myself on most days/weeks. And their are plenty of activities which I can accurately gauge (even more do than the wrist band at times). So to truly make it fair then the harder path should be taken. And only eliminate activities such as soccer from manual entry. Instead of taking draconian measures that appear aimed at avoiding doing hard work in refining the system there should simply be an effort to identify and eliminate those activities which you dub would be unrealistic to manually enter. Especially considering the wrist band is often inaccurate (I've more than a few times been logged as doing an activity by my wrist band which was simply wrong. And it became unfair towards me that adjusting it manually to be correct negated the hard work I had done. That's not to mention that wearing a wristband is simply unfeasible or not allowed in some settings and I end up in a situation much less fair then having no regulations to curb Cheating. This thread is a few months old but it was the most recent that appeared in my searches so I hope my perspective can be brought to the attention of whomever makes the rules. At the very least just add an option in settings that would allow the user the option to participate in your strict no manual entry policy or participate in a system that is more moderate and sensible in approach. 

Thank vmm 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You are correct in your assessment up to a point. The company is trying in good faith to try and make things fair. But their blunt force approach to the issue has actually had the opposite effect and made it unfair based on examples reduced to the most absurd or extreme cases one can think up. It is not practical, feasible, or in some instances legal to wear something if doing a competition. Such as swimming. It's also unreasonable to assume everyone will always remember charge and wear the wristband. Finally I don't have a statistic but far too often my wristband completely gets wrong what activity I was doing. Often I'll go run and it gets logged as cycling. If I then attempt to correct it all my effort has just been negated. The moderators answers have been basically scripted, argumentum ad absurdum (unrealistic argument taken to the absurd or extreme), or a case of just saying it could be done but it's just too hard so to them "fairness" is taking draconian measures.

 

i believe in the sincerity of the company in wanting fairness. I don't see how you see this as catering to cheaters though. This is the opposite of catering to cheaters. As catering to cheaters would mean rewarding someone or making a system that rewards cheating. Which this certainly does not do. You could state that they allow cheaters to hold too much influence in the design of the system. You could also claim to be rather insulted as it takes a very small minority of people who would cheat and then assumes that we are all cheaters or at least treats us all that way. Considering we mostly compete against ourselves or people we know and would have a general idea if they were cheating the whole premise of the system doesn't make good sense. 

 

It could at the very least simply add a setting which opts in to this draconian system or opt into a system which makes more sense like excluding certain sports from being manually entered since some sports vary greatly from game to game on how much activity a player does.

 

i think sending formulas is a bit overstretching your place as a customer and actually dilutes your argument as much as the claim that cheaters are catered to does. So to be effective in your statement as a customer (as i am hoping for a change as much as you are) I would suggest sticking to the message and refrain from accusations or anything else that dilutes the overall goal of a system that is fairer. It would be more complicated but it would actuslly be much more fair in being able to manually enter exercise or corrrct a mistake made by the software. As we all vary in how we exercise. I suspect counting steps is the least accurate way to keep track of actual exercise versus simply walking because walking is necessary to do things in life (by going from one place to another) but isn't necessarily exercise as you eluded to. And any form of regimented exercise can be converted into steps (assuming the steps are actual exercising steps such as competitive walking or hiking).

 

 

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@Christopher-S  Fitbit took the "hard" approach because a predator was creating millions of steps so that he could get to the top of selected Group leader boards.  At one stage he was a member of over 200 Groups in a few minutes by using manual steps in the millions.  It was so easy.. Manually input 1000 miles and you could get 2,000,000 + steps... and shoot to the top of a group Leader Board.

 

He then tried to proposition female members as per the image below.  I created a female account with one of my Fitbits.. friended and immediately received a propositions, phone number etc.. I found some of the messages were bordering on a criminal offense.

 

I thought a logical approach could have been adopted but this "sick" person could have.  We were all hoping Fitbit could address the issue with some logical range checking etc but to no avail.

 

Fitbit moderators were deleting him but he would pop up again with another name.. immediately

 

Predator.jpg

 

 

 

 

Colin:Victoria, Australia
Ionic (OS 4.2.1, 27.72.1.15), Android App 3.45.1, Premium, Phone Sony Xperia XA2, Android 9.0
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Did you actually have a point here mate ?
If so, it was lost on me.
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@enkerkee The post was to explaining the method that Fitbit had at the time to remove predators who were escalating their steps to get to the top of Fitbit Groups.

 

Also we are wasting our time trying to post to have Fitbit change their minds because that feature was declined in December 2015

 

 

 

 

Colin:Victoria, Australia
Ionic (OS 4.2.1, 27.72.1.15), Android App 3.45.1, Premium, Phone Sony Xperia XA2, Android 9.0
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I guess I'm late to the party on this thread, but this is so annoying. I take my Fitbit off when I run or walk because it so significantly undercounts (logs maybe half of them, and yes, I've been through all the help steps with Fitbit- IMO it's a poor design flaw), and now I can't get the leaderboard right even by logging manually. Definitely won't replace my Fitbit whenever it dies unless Fitbit seriously gets its act together.

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What is sad mate is that people like you have been posting on my comment
here for at least a year and FitBit just wont listen to their customers. No
wonder their products are so cheap these days. People leaving in droves or
buying other brands.
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I am also late to the game.  To be honest this feature seemed to be working for me up until recently, like in last few weeks.  I agree with all the posts criticizing this action by Fitbit and disagree with the justification(s) by Fitbit.  It does not make sense and ruins the experience as well as the tracking

 

I just stumbled on this forum.  Yesterday I had an online chat with Fitbit about this and this is what I received after the person took some time to find out about this:

 

Hi David, 
  It was a pleasure chatting with you about your Fitbit step data accuracy issue.
  Upon checking our higher team of support team it seems that manually logged step-based activities no longer count toward Group and Friends Leaderboards. As a result, users may see their 7-day step counts decrease. I am very sorry for the inconvenience this caused you David.
  I appreciate your patience and understanding.
  Please let us know if you have additional questions. 
Sincerely,

The Fitbit Team

 

My response:

 
  This is extremely disappointing and does not make sense. So in syncing this morning to discuss this with you, my dashboard says 60,028 ( I have not worked out today yet.) but when I count the last 7 days I should have 66028. This is because I added steps of 2,000 and 4,000.
  Of course the tracker will count steps, the "One" does it correctly.  But I also do spinning and elliptical machine.  None of the trackers can record steps by these activities correctly.   So I convert the activity to steps.  There are various different metrics to do this and I have been doing this since I started with Fitbit in 2015. 
  I have been in a family challenge for steps since we got our fits.  I was recently involved in a 9 month challenge by a friend  to do 14000 steps a day.  This has just stopped.  However, if I could not use my other activities for this then challenges would not work.  The point is now, unless the only activity you do is steps, then challenges are just for that and thus totally limiting, thus, what is the point?  Also when I look at the dashboard I want to see my total effort on this page (e.g., 7 day total).  Now I have to "drill" down to see this.  This change has turned an important part of the Fitbit experience useless.
  I am very disappointed in this.  I just read on line a justification by Fitbit as to why they did this.  I just do not agree with this.  To me it does not make sense.  What happens if you walked 5 miles and forgot to put your Fitbit on? Who cares if someone users this to cheat?   My challenges are me and my family. Any other challenges are with friends. Thus my challenges are local and "cheating" is unthinkable.  
  From the Fitbit forum, a lot of people are totally announced, turned off, and very disappointed in this.  I would ask that you send my email to management, but they have been monitoring the forum and provided their justification(s).  It would appear after over a year, they are not listening and have dug in their heals on this issue.  So sending this to management will make no difference unfortunately.   
 
Very frustrated, 
 
Dave
 
 
Moderator edit: format
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@Userinmaine wrote:

I guess I'm late to the party on this thread, but this is so annoying. I take my Fitbit off when I run or walk because it so significantly undercounts (logs maybe half of them, and yes, I've been through all the help steps with Fitbit- IMO it's a poor design flaw), and now I can't get the leaderboard right even by logging manually. Definitely won't replace my Fitbit whenever it dies unless Fitbit seriously gets its act together.


Just a comment.  Wrist based trackers do not record steps well.  The One however, does it the best.

 

dave

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Thanks Dave for the note about the One. I didn't realize it when I purchased the wrist based one, but I do now! I use a different app for actually tracking workouts, so it's not a big deal. I use the Fitbit mostly to keep up with family who is out of town a lot as a means to stay connected. Either way it is unlikely I'll replace my Fitbit, but if I did it would be with one that isn't wrist based.
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@Userinmaine wrote:
Thanks Dave for the note about the One. I didn't realize it when I purchased the wrist based one, but I do now! I use a different app for actually tracking workouts, so it's not a big deal. I use the Fitbit mostly to keep up with family who is out of town a lot as a means to stay connected. Either way it is unlikely I'll replace my Fitbit, but if I did it would be with one that isn't wrist based.

Say what app do you use to track?

 

dave

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@DTL-Michigan - If posting your work contact information was unintentional, you can edit your post to remove that info. 

Scott | Baltimore MD

Charge 6; Inspire 3; Luxe; iPhone 13 Pro

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Thanks!
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The other thing you can not do is erase steps in challenges.  So why would you want to do that?  Well two things happened to me.  The first is in the syncing.  I place the One on top of my desktop near the usb dongle to make sure it syncs.  I do this late in the day and sometimes I forget it and leave it there over night.  Twice, the next day I already had over 20K steps.  It seems that something about the computer (maybe vibrations during virus checking) added steps to my Fitbit.  There is no removal function.  So I just manually added zero steps over the time period that this occurred.  Did not change the dashboard total and I had to send an email to the person who challenged me to 14000 steps a day about the issue. The second was after a day of sampling groundwater samples in remote villages in the Yucatan.  Very bumpy roads and to keep traffic speeds down in the villages, there are speed bumps everywhere.   When I got back to the motel that night I had over 30K steps.  I tried to erase as above but nope.  Now I have an unearned merit badge for a daily high step count.  Go figure.  

 

In terms of the current issue, I have sent emails to my step friends that my totals that they see no longer reflects what I have done and that this in no longer a real challenge in terms of work out, but just how many steps you have taken.  As another poster said, a nice way to keep in touch, but in the end useless for challenges for us who have various workout methods   :(.

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@DTL-Michigan - to remove or negate steps you did not really do enter a driving activity instead of trying to overwrite with zero steps.  This will take the steps out of your daily and monthly totals.  (I think it removes them from challenges as well, but it may depend on whether false steps were synced to the challenge before you have the opportunity to negate them).  Report back and let us know how it works.

Scott | Baltimore MD

Charge 6; Inspire 3; Luxe; iPhone 13 Pro

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Interesting I will give this a try when this happens again

Moderator edit: personal info removed

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Do manually logged steps count towards your weekly report on the FREINDS board?

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No, sadly not, which is what this thread is lamenting. Sorry to bear bad
tidings.
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