Counting steps for Cycling!

[Smellie32]

So I have had my Fitbit for 6+ months. As I have researched issues, I have noticed that many people have struggles with not being able to count steps while cycling, I to get frustrated with this. Being a triathlete and competitive, want all my steps to count. What I don't understand is how after a few years of Fitbit knowing this is an issue, why have they not come up with a solution? It is more motivating when all your activities count as steps so when you are competing against friends on the Fitbit app that you feel you have a chance. I think Fitbit needs to expand their horizon to not only motivating customers to walk and run but all sports. Swimming and biking are my 2 favorites. 

[Heybales]

Rereading many of the responses for those desiring to count steps - it's not always about better calorie burn estimate (which couldn't be accurate anyway for a distance based step formula, even though HR-based formula is used) - it's about getting credit for "something" that shows movement was done.

Some for use in challenges, some to compare to other activities, some for personal goals.

Steps is merely an easy to understand figure for movement (hence the confusion on why it can't be translated to all activities).

Fitbit (and others) do or tried to apply guidelines for amount of daily or weekly activity that hit "Moderate" (3 x BMR?) and "Vigorous" (6 x BMR?) and give reporting on that to help people be more active. Never seemed to catch on - especially not for comparison.

Considering short person walking next to tall person could get more steps for same distance, and burn less calories doing it (moving less weight for instance), perhaps a whole other metric is in order for daily activity level and above movement.

An easy one would use the already calculated out special activity level - but instead of minutes of Moderate or Vigorous, or minutes in different HR zones just during exercise - use  a metric that can be applied to purely increased daily activity like walking, and any exercise activity.

Just call it METS. Same concept, and almost sounds like steps.

It would be based on calorie burn, since that is what METS is based on.

But only above BMR level burn. Which is what steps is doing too.

So take your daily calories burn (or parts thereof during the day), or workout burn.

Subtract out the BMR for the day, or partial day, or portion of workout time. Then divide by your BMR rate of burn so you get multiplier above your personal rate, making a better compare than steps I'd think.

Call the resulting figure METS (even though it's not technically METS, but getting close)

Using my figures from Sat where I had very low step count outside my workouts, but 2 workouts.

BMR 1643 (1.141 cal/min rate)

TDEE that day 2916.

Total active calories (which steps would have been a part of) - 2916-1643 = 1273 / 1.141 = 1116 METS

My Running Workout of 50 min 701 calories would be

701 - (1643 bmr / 1440 day min x 50 min) = 644 calorie burn above BMR / 1.141 = 564 METS

Lifting workout of 85 min 400 calories would be

400 - (1.141 x 85) = 303 / 1.141 = 266 METS

So using those workouts thinking about steps - lifting would have had barely any steps, and indeed calorie burn is low, and indeed this METS value shows despite being a long time, half the value.

So cycling or swimming would be given a value based on actual effort based on calorie burn, size would not matter, could have per workout and update as day progresses, could have goal levels the same way.

And someone short and many steps to walk would receive a METS relative to their base burn, same as someone tall with fewer steps.

Now, moving more weight would count as more calorie burn, but divided by their higher BMR - value should be fair.

Hmmmmm.

Be curious for someone with a workout and a daily stat to do the math for couple of values.

[Winsem]

 

Heybales,

this seems a good proposal: to get Fitbit to use another unit of activity. I upload the stats of my day yesterday, mon 25th of may 2021. I cycled a 104 kms with a medium heartbeat of about 149 (according to my Garmin Oregon 700 with chest strap). In the evening I walked 6 kms and I went up and down some floors, about 10 times I guess.

The reading on my Versa 3 is quit something. A lot of steps and 74 floors!

To me this is an indication that Fitbits are indeed activity trackers, nothing more: at the end of the day the tell you that you indeed did something that day. What you did and how much is a guess. It’s a gadget, that’s what it is, I’m sorry to say.

I like the different watch faces, but for that I could have bought a cheaper watch.

[t.parker]

@Winsem Fitbit was always a mere activity tracker and it's been addressed to people who mostly wanted to get moving. It is hard to jump right into sports for somebody who spent most of their life as a couch potato. Tracking the activity in that very simple form tells you that you did something and higher numbers of steps and floors tell you that today you did more than yesterday. At this stage not much more is needed. The rewards are instant, first goals are easier to achieve, and with this element of reward, such a person tries harder. Some people need to start somewhere and if somebody never ran before then obviously, won't start with more athletic challenges. I don't need to look for such a person far as I started like that a few years ago. Obese with asthma, high blood pressure, cholesterol, and whatnot - steps were easy, something countable, achievable. This is what Fitbit is in my eyes, although I started with Charge 2, not very expensive and doing the job I needed back then. Now, normal weight, asthma gone, all other issues gone and after getting involved in sports I stopped looking at steps or floors as now they do not measure anything for me. I'd rather go for more athletic challenges like running a half-marathon once a month (I don't care how many steps it takes) or achieve monthly elevation gain when trail running, or total climbing altitude when doing rock climbing, or total distance when cycling, etc. There are days when I'm very active yet have very few steps (approx. 1000-2000). Fitbit doesn't really offer any other way of measuring progress and doesn't see different sports as individual types of activities. This view is really good when it comes to keeping things simple but then when the user "level ups" it's not enough anymore. Users get used to steps so they would like to get steps from any kind of activity (which really makes no sense), everything unified. It is Fitbit's fault that for this particular ecosystem steps became everything. Fitbit should simply say running isn't the same as cycling, here you have rewards for running, here you have rewards for cycling (are there even badges for cycling or swimming?). Fitbits are not sports watches (simple evidence, the only system not having badges for important running milestones or even PBs for major running distances) and for anyone who requires slightly more on that side of functionality, the activity tracker may not be the right choice. In my opinion, users get too much fixated on steps which, with real fitness progression, becomes only a distraction.

[Winsem]

Parker,

Thanks for anwsering. The whole Steps-or whatever unit-discussing isn't that important to me. It's just a pity that in alle the reviews I read before I ordered my Versa 3 the Fitbit was placed alongside Garmins and Polars etc. I haven't got a clue how they perform as real measuring devices. I only guess they'll not do much better.

The activity trackers give nice incentives to get up from your desk by the message you heve to do some steps this hour. I only, wrongly, counted on a better measuring algorithm (or something). Now it's just 'Hey! You did something and more steps/cals/floors is better!' 

[slmskrs]

What I don't understand is when I start tracking an exercise (mountain biking), why wouldn't it stop counting steps (since they are generated by bouncing)?  If I don't start an exercise, then it should include any steps by any movement.  But if I specifically start a mountain bike riding session (or any other exercise that utilizes internal or mobile phone GPS), it should take into consideration elevation, distance, and heart rate, and ignore any vibration that it might turn into a step.  It bothers me that I can do a hard ride, and it says I've gotten 15,000 or 20,000 steps when I didn't get off my bike once.  I can see the ride, distance, and elevation in the app.  My point is it should not attempt to count steps when we're specifically doing an activity where there are no steps.

I'm in work challenge right now, and they say to use 167 steps/minute when biking.  So I just enter in my ride into the challenge portal.  The problem is that my fitbit steps are also automatically uploaded to the challenge, and since the steps are incorrect while riding, it screws up my totals.  Let me tell it when to count steps, and when not to when I'm doing other exercises.

[VeganBiker2]

Hey slmskrs, I agree with you! You are one of the few that are not happy
with your biking counting steps. Most of the Fitbit users think that
cycling should count steps. What???????? This is truly dumb!!!

Should swimming count steps???? Should lifting weights count steps????

Of course not, however many Fitbit users think it should!

Vegan Biker

[TheVinny]

Yes VeganBiker, when you swim you gain STEPS on your fitbit. And why not, a swim stroke is very similar to a step in terms of activity. And when you lift weights you also often get STEPS on your fitbit. And why not, doing 20 reps of any exercise with weights is very similar in activity to getting steps by walking. By the way when you shower you also get some steps on fitbit. And why not, you are after all standing/stepping/washing. Again very similar in terms of activity to a step. Seems pretty simple to me. And I want them counted since Fitbit (as you must know by now) doesn't count swim strokes, doesn't count weight lifting reps and doesn't count shower washing on any list that I can find.

Perhaps as some have stated Fitbit could use the terms "Units" instead of the term "steps". But since most people walk more than anything else and since most other activities are counted to at least some degree as STEPS Fitbit has chosen to keep it that way and I'm okay with it as are most other Fitbit users. No different with Apple Watch, Garmin, Polar or any other tracking device. Active STEPS could very well be substituted for and be the same as active UNITS.

What I'm not okay with is spending 20 minutes on an AirBike where I'm moving BOTH my feet (STEPPING down on the pedal) AND moving my arms, but not getting credit for any steps at all. 

I wanted to find how to get steps on my fitbit by using my AirBike. Steps that I would have indeed EARNED. No cheating involved (despite silly claims by some here stating otherwise). 

People who ride bikes (any kind of bike), 'STEP/PUSH' down on each pedal to make the bike go forward (or to get their exercise if using a stationary bike). In fact when I ride, I step down on each pedal multiple times. Otherwise the bike stops moving and will fall over and get hurt unless I stick my feet out. Unless you still use training wheels. Certainly not rocket science here. You are stepping when riding as bike.

So, like many others here, I would like to know if people have found a way that allows each of those STEPS DOWN on the bike pedal to count as steps on their fitbit devices.  I want the credit for stepping on bike pedal as a fitbit step. Simple as that. When I walk up a steep hill I still only get one step. If biking up a steep hill I still only want one step.

But they are MY steps (either way) and I want them counted. 

As do many others.

If you're okay doing other activities for a full hour and getting no credit for them then good for you. But I want mine counted. 

Vinny

[TheVinny]

What I've discovered so far is that if I use my Versa 3 WITH A FITBIT BAND, then it will count most of my reps on my AirBike as a step. What was frustrating and why I first joined this forum is that when using an after market band I was not getting any steps counted. And I can see why. The after-market sport band itself lays flat on my wrist. The fitbit band arches noticeably differently and it's because of this that it will count steps when using an air bike and/or elliptical. That's all I wanted and now I get it.

Now, for people wanting to know how to count Fitbit steps when riding a stationary bike or a regular bike outside; one way is by placing the fitbit around your ANKLE where you will at least get 1/2 or your steps which is more than if you leave it on your wrist during a bike ride. It only counts the one leg and not the non-fitbit leg.

One last trick I learned when on a stationary bike is that you can put the fitbit on your three middle fingers and just slightly elevate them upwards for each step on the bike and in most cases it will count each step for me. I found it was easy to get into the habit and rhythm once I got it going. That said, once I realized that wearing the Fitbit Brand sport band itself solved my issues I no longer need to do it that other way. But it does work for those using a stationary bike and in most outdoor riding cases it seemed safe enough to do as well since your hand itself never leaves the handle bars.

I hope this helps some others looking for solutions to counting steps when biking. I found what I needed. Good luck!

[Winsem]

Parker,

As to the question of badges for cycling: last ride I suddenly got a 'Lighttower-badge' while cycling on my time trial bike. The Lighttower badge is for ascending/descending stairs 😉

[Heybales]

---

@Winsem wrote:

Parker,

As to the question of badges for cycling: last ride I suddenly got a 'Lighttower-badge' while cycling on my time trial bike. The Lighttower badge is for ascending/descending stairs 😉

---

Ohhhh - so leave home in the calm and ride into a storm - get the pressure change for big stair count!

[slmskrs]

@TheVinny  @VeganBiker2   If Fitbit could accurately calculate equivalent steps for riding, I wouldn't mind it converting my biking into steps for an overall number.  The problem is what we get now has nothing to do with cycling; with a stationary bike, you might get zero steps for a one hour workout, while when I'm mountain biking over rough terrain, I might get 15k steps for the same hour.  I know it is imperfect, but I want an accurate representation of my workouts/exercise, and right now the only way I get some sort of accuracy is to track it as a cycling exercise, which gives me duration, distance, heart rate, altitude.  The problem is that Fitbit also adds some indeterminate number of steps from bouncing, which has nothing to do with the actual exercise. 

Just on tracking actual steps, it doesn't differentiate between level ground and elevation change.  It seems that based on heartrate and duration, it would be an easy algorithm to calculate equivalent number of steps are.  If I do 12000 steps (~6 miles) walking on level ground for two hours, I have a certain heart rate.  Do the same thing but with a 2,500ft elevation climb and return hike, my heart rate goes up substantially on the way up and then drops somewhat on the way down.  Overall my heartrate and goes up considerably with the same 12000 steps.  So there should be an 'adder' to my 12000.  Ex:  (making up numbers--haven't checked) If I do 12000 steps on level ground at a heartrate of 90bpm, and the 12000 step hike with 2500ft elevation my overall heartrate is 120, then since my hike heart rate is 1.33x my level walking rate, I should get a 33% steps adder for the hike, or 16,000 steps.

Moving to a bike, if you turn on exercise tracking, Fitbit should ignore any wrist vibration/movement and track solely on duration and heart rate (or get more fancy and include elevation calculations).  When I'm done with the exercise and click on Finish, it could then give me an option to 'convert' to steps (ex: the company challenge I'm in now allows you go convert cycling duration into 167 steps per minute (whereas my normal walking is 100 steps per minute).

If Fitbit would take into consideration heart rate or elevation into their calculations of steps when walking/hiking, it would be more accurate.  In addition, if they would use duration and heart rate, etc. for all tracked exercises (ignoring vibration steps), and then allow people who wanted the 'equivalent' steps calculated, it would give what everyone wants:  Accurate steps based on activity, and no vibration induced false steps.

What I'm going to do on my next ride is to note how many steps are on fitbit when I start, then track the exercise, and when I'm done, see how many steps it added.  For the work challenge, since fitbit steps are automatically uploaded, I will add in my ride manually using the 167/minute cycling conversion, but then subtract out the vibration induced steps during the ride.  That's the fairest way I can think of to have a representative number of steps for the challenge, while taking into consideration the different level of intensity between walking around the house and riding up a steep hill.

Just sayin'......  (in way too many words)   😉

[slmskrs]

@TheVinny   Oh, while I agree a swim stroke could be counted like a step, for me anyway, a swim stroke is way more effort than a simple level ground step (trying to propel my whole body forward in water and also keep my head above water).  I want that difference in intensity recorded.  Same thing for weight lifting.  20 reps is a whole lot more energy expended than 20 steps.  I can easily do 20k, 30k, and even 40k steps (a hard hike but still over 40k in a day).  I can't do 100 reps with weights, let alone 40k.  So there should be the ability to convert other activities into 'adjusted' steps if people want to see it.  If you do 20 reps or 20 strokes and get 20 steps, and I do 100 steps on level ground and get 100 steps, on the surface it looks like I did 5x more than you, when in terms of energy, you did a LOT more than me.

In the end, helping all of us exercise more is the purpose, and as long as we are only comparing our efforts to ourselves, it really doesn't make a difference for me.  But if I'm in a challenge, weights should be taken into consideration, and I think it wouldn't be hard to at least improve the accuracy/determine adjusted steps based on intensity.  Hope Fitbit is reading this thread....  😉

[TheVinny]

Just a couple points.

You wrote: "Just on tracking actual steps, it doesn't differentiate between level ground and elevation change."

*** Yes it does. Anytime there is an elevation change whether walking up a flight of stairs or on a dog walk and walking up an incline I get the typical steps counted, but also, I get additional credit for flights of STAIRS. Every time. At least it's something extra counted which I appreciate. (And depending on how steep the incline I'll often get credited with some additional active minutes as well.) 

Also, I'm not so sure I agree with you that a swim stroke is that much more difficult than a walking step. Especially when walking during a workout or interval training which is more like power stepping. But my point is that at least if you're swimming for 20 minutes you're getting SOME credit for it in terms of activity by it counting each stroke as a step. Especially the breast stroke I would think you'd get more steps counted in the same amount of time. 

Same with doing 20 reps with weights. I prefer lighter weights and more reps. But keep in mind I'm not using any legs when doing a set of bicep curls. And at least I get step credit (which is best they can do) for almost every rep. But, yes, a body builder using heavy weights would miss out to some degree.

Where both swimmers and weight lifters (and even bike riders) would get back some of that missed stepping activity (or units if you want to call them that) would be in getting more 'active minutes' recorded by your fitbit. So an hour of steps strolling in an air conditioned mall would likely only give you steps counted and nothing more. But an hour of swimming or lifting weights would give you both steps AND additional active minutes. And, if whatever your workout is includes changes in elevation, you would also gain additional credit for 'stairs climbed'.

Having for example 10k steps with minimal or no active minutes at all tells me something about my day. Having just 8k steps but with 30 flights of stairs climbed and 20 active minutes tells me a different story.

What's nice about all of these activities being tracked is that I can look at yesterday and often it will help me decide how much to do today. I'm 58, so recovery does take more time than when I was 28. So, having a 15,000 step day is normally fine, but, usually, when that happens I try to purposefully go lighter the following day. And when I don't do that and instead back to back very 'active' days it usually catches up to me and will feel it pretty soon. Getting run down is something I try to avoid.

That's why when I first used my AirBike for 20 minutes earlier this month, and no steps were counted at all, I had a problem with it. Turned out to be a non-fitbit strap was the actual issue. So I'm good now and would not trade my fitbit for anything. The Apple Watch (which my son uses) needs charging every 18 hours at best and DIES often at the end of a busy day, so he tells me. Whereas I get 6 DAYS of battery life. And I have 5 years of activity/sleep/heart rate etc activity recorded and can compare years of progress. My Fitbit is one of best things I ever bought!

Thanks for the dialogue.

[slmskrs]

@TheVinny  I agree, it does count flights of stairs.  I've had over 400 flights of stairs some days due to mountain bike elevation climbs.  However, it doesn't take that into account when calculating steps.

This evening I did a test to see the vibration-induced steps would be on a ride.  I rode 114 minutes.  19 miles, 1,600ft elevation gain (more than half the ride was on a gently sloping paved bike path to and from the trailhead).  I rode non-stop to and from; didn't take one step from start to finish.  However, Fitbit gave me a little over 6,000 steps due to vibration (it would have been a lot more except the majority of the distance was on a paved bike path so not that much vibration).  Based on the 'calculation' we were given on this exercise challenge with one minute of cycling equaling 167 steps, the ride should have been the equivalent 19,000 steps.  So while it gave me 6,000 steps from vibration, it was no-where near something more equivalent to the activity.  And this calculation doesn't take into consideration heart rate, etc.  I don't know how that 167 steps equivalent per minute on a bike was calculated (pretty generic) since it doesn't take into consideration elevation, etc.  In comparison, yesterday I rode 15 miles with about 5 or 6 miles on a road, and the rest on mountain biking trails.  I road harder/faster (lots of PBs on Strava for that trail), 2,000ft elevation gain, but the ride was 94 minutes, or 20 minutes less than today.  Strava says my shorter ride yesterday burned more calories than today's longer ride today (I believe it).  Fitbit doesn't take any of that into consideration.  To your point, it tracks steps, flights of stairs, heart rate, calories burned.  But stairs, heart rate and calories burned do not factor into steps; steps is just a static measurement of one foot in front of the other.

This is all great insight; I appreciate yours and others comments.  BTW, I'm a bit older than you (mid 60s), and I hear you on recovery and feeling it.  After the hard ride where I pushed myself yesterday, I did this easier and slower one, but it kicked my butt.  Stupid work exercise challenge forcing me into doing something every day......   😉

[slmskrs]

BTW, I'd love to know what the algorithm is for counting flights of stairs when I'm on my bike going up hills, and do not have GPS (not tracking cycling exercise with GPS on), am not swinging my arms, etc.  It's great to see 400 flights of stairs after a great ride, but without actually walking up stairs, I don't see how it calculates it.  But I'm sure impressed with myself when I see hundreds of flights of stairs......🤣

[t.parker]

@slmskrs floors are counted using barometric pressure not arm swings. That's why you won't get any floors walking on stationary stair climber machine.

[slmskrs]

That's impressive since it does a pretty accurate job of counting the number of times I go upstairs and downstairs at home with about a 12' elevation gain each time I go up.  Didn't expect it to sense that small of an air pressure change.  🙂

[t.parker]

@slmskrs it does indeed and while it's pretty good indoor, the outdoor (due to weather or any other factors that may affect pressure) it may go crazy. See the elevation on my recent run:

Orange is Fitbit Sense, blue is Garmin with elevation correction. You can clearly say when things started going wrong for Fitbit. It's about 20min of rubbish elevation registered which resulted in inflated floors (real elevation gain on this run is 43m but Fitbit registered 97m which in the end resulted in 46 floors (I was wearing the watch during that run only, I don't wear it on regular basis). Fitbit doesn't have any kind of elevation correction which is pretty much a must for outdoor activities, otherwise, you get results like this. Moreover, I don't understand floors, it's not a measure of anything but good for beginners I guess 🙂

[Argali]

Even with the Fitbit on your ankle, steps do not equal pedal-strokes.

I converted my spin bike into an arm bike. Comparing the steps counted to the bike's odometer, steps were clearly short-counted.

This is probably because pedaling is a circular motion where true steps are a pendular motion (for which the Fitbit was designed).

[Rich_Laue]

The odometer is measuring a virtual made up distance based on the rotation of the wheel. The tracker will not know what the wheel is doing and will not be able to measure this virtual distance. 

As for pedal strokes, the tracker is on the arm and really does not know what the feet are doing. The tracker however does know what motions the wrist makes. Which will not be the same motion as when one walks down the road.