Declining cardio fitness score although resting heart rate has decreased and running regularly

[Lolsinda]

Hi all, I find my Fitbit metrics a bit surprising recently. I run almost every day, I am definitely improving, getting faster and faster-really happy and motivated. My cardio fitness rate has also been steadily improving since I got my Charge 2 three months ago  -  it went from 40 up to 46 gradually. I almost completely stopped peaking during my runs, no matter how hard I was going. My heart rate was pretty chilled always. However, I was also observing parallel to that that my resting heart rate was increasing - slowly it went from 59 up to 71 even. I was always regularly running, increasing distance, getting faster, etc. Then within a few days my resting heart rate started dropping every day - fell down to 61 (currently). I was really happy, thought it was a sign of getting fitter. And here comes the strange part -my cardio fitness score dropped down to 44! I run better and with much greater ease and speed AND I started peaking again during my runs - from zero I am now having between 10 and 15 peak minutes during each run over the past week or so... (usually run for 40-50 minutes a day). Does anyone have an explanation for this..?? 😕 😕 Big thanks in advance! 

[shipo]

Back when I was doing triathlons in the early 1990s I found my sweet spot for cycling cadence in the Olympic and Half-Ironman events I competed in was somewhere in the 100-110 per minute.  The only exception were the two events I entered which covered mountainous terrain; funny thing, I was never able to summon a high cadence while climbing a long and steep grade.

[bcalvanese]

My fitbit cardio fitness score is 42 excellent.

I have owned many Garmin devices and they all say my VO2 is poor/fair. They give me scores as low as 22 and as high as 34.

My Polar V800 always gave me good or better scores.

That is why I say that Garmin is geared more toward athletes than just regular people like me.

[bbarrera]

@bcalvanese two questions if you don't mind

what did you do to get a Fitbit score?

what did you do to get a Garmin score?

[bcalvanese]

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@bbarrera wrote:

@bcalvanese two questions if you don't mind

what did you do to get a Fitbit score?

what did you do to get a Garmin score?

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@bbarrera

On the fitbit I used the run app. Sometimes I do intervals of power walking and running, and sometimes I do just a slow paced run. I do these anywhere from 3 to 7.5 miles depending on what course I do. The courses range from slightly hilly to pretty darn hilly, and if I just do it around my apartment complex it's pretty flat.

With the Garmin's I do the same. I have also used the chest strap with the Garmin's to see if it made any difference in the VO2 max score, but it didn't.

Also with my Suunto A3P I get good VO2 max scores as well.

Garmin is the only device that gives me bad scores. All devices have my correct weight/height/MHR/etc...

[bbarrera]

Can you run 8 to 9 minute/mile pace for 12 minutes, on a flat course? In other words, run almost 6 laps on a quarter mile track in 12 minutes. That’s roughly the pace someone with 42 VO2max is capable of running. 

I use the Garmin Edge 520 bike computer and bundled premium HRM. It’s been stable and seemingly accurate, after the initial settling in period described in manual. Did you pick up the phone and call Garmin about it?

[bcalvanese]

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@bbarrera wrote:

Can you run 8 to 9 minute/mile pace for 12 minutes, on a flat course? In other words, run almost 6 laps on a quarter mile track in 12 minutes. That’s roughly the pace someone with 42 VO2max is capable of running. 

I use the Garmin Edge 520 bike computer and bundled premium HRM. It’s been stable and seemingly accurate, after the initial settling in period described in manual. Did you pick up the phone and call Garmin about it?

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@bbarrera

I could probably do 12 minute miles for about 3 miles, but not 8 or 9.

I do think fitbit is probably more generous with their scores, but other devices give me good scores, and Garmin's are the only devices I ever used that give me poor scores.

Also, Garmin's are the only devices that give me inconsistent data like training effect for example. I could do the same workout at the same pace and get totally different training effect numbers. I did call Garmin a few times about these types of things and they just tell me that it's firsbeat's calculations.

And as I said in an earlier post, I don't agree with pace being the main factor in calculating cardiorespiratory fitness level. Cardiorespiratory in and of itself means heart/lungs. When someone decided to add pace and make it the primary factor, they threw a whole plethora of additional variables into the mix and made it way too over complicated.

Leg length

Leg muscle condition

Joint condition

Vein and artery condition

These variables have nothing to do with the heart and lungs.

I am only 5'8" and have short legs which are not very muscular. I also have varicose veins in my lower legs. I am also 60 years old. But, I can keep my heart and lungs going in the lower 90% of my MHR for about an hour. This tells me that my heart and lungs are in way better shape than they where almost 3 years ago. 3 years ago I could barely walk a mile at about a 3 mph pace. Today I can power walk over 10 miles at a 4 to 4.5 mph pace, and run up to 5 miles at a 4 to 5 mph pace.

I think pace should be a factor as it does improve as the heart/lungs/legs get stronger, but to say that someone with longer stronger legs than me can run faster at the same percentage of MHR for the same amount of time should get a higher fitness score just because they have longer stronger legs is just wrong to me.

[bbarrera]

@bcalvanese Don’t know what to tell you, life ain’t fair?

I ride with a guy that is 5’ 5” maybe 5’ 4” and he ran a marathon this year at 8 min/mile pace. My legs are longer and stronger, I couldn’t do that. He is also faster than me on the flats, even though I have more power. 

[bcalvanese]

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@bbarrera wrote:

@bcalvanese Don’t know what to tell you, life ain’t fair?

I ride with a guy that is 5’ 5” maybe 5’ 4” and he ran a marathon this year at 8 min/mile pace. My legs are longer and stronger, I couldn’t do that. He is also faster than me on the flats, even though I have more power. 

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I hear you man, and I know cardio fitness is mostly hereditary (I think like 80%). Pretty sure my fitness level is lower than what fitbit is saying, but also pretty sure it is higher than what Garmin is saying. If I where to guess I would say maybe about 38. My Suunto A3P usually gives me numbers in the good range consistently so I think that is probably about right.

I am also about 20 lbs. over weight according to the charts, so if I lose some weight and keep exercising it will improve even more. I have lost over 50 lbs. so far.

[bbarrera]

@bcalvanese here is a recent power walk I did:

13.1 miles, 2:59:49, average pace 13:44 and average HR 123bpm.

Plug that into a Rockport Walk Test calculator:

https://exrx.net/Calculators/Rockport.html

and I get a VO2max of 38. Put my fastest split/HR and I get 39.7

[bcalvanese]

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@bbarrera wrote:

@bcalvanese here is a recent power walk I did:

13.1 miles, 2:59:49, average pace 13:44 and average HR 123bpm.

Plug that into a Rockport Walk Test calculator:

https://exrx.net/Calculators/Rockport.html

and I get a VO2max of 38. Put my fastest split/HR and I get 39.7

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@bbarrera

What does fitbit give you for a fitness score?

thanks,

[bbarrera]

@bcalvanese  No single number score, because I cycle and don’t run. The range score was wrong (too high). 

[Corney]

Thank you!

[bcalvanese]

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@bbarrera wrote:

@bcalvanese two questions if you don't mind

what did you do to get a Fitbit score?

what did you do to get a Garmin score?

---

@bbarrera

I have been working on pace lately and wanted to report that i am now getting a VO2max score of 37 with my Garmin fenix 5x. This is in the good range now...:)

i did 3.85 miles with an average pace of about 12:30. I did 3 min power walk intervals and 1 min run intervals.

I think fitbit was giving me a false sense of my fitness level and Garmin is probably accurate.

thank you for your insight.

[bbarrera]

@bcalvanese Just learned that the latest watchOS 4 on my original AW added VO2max estimation for walking and running. I only have 4 GPS tracked walks since version 4 was released on Sept 19. Here are the estimates:

During that same period, my Garmin bike computer was estimating:

- 40 in Sept

- 39 in Oct

- 40 in Nov

So pretty close VO2max agreement between Garmin bike computer and Apple Watch (AW0).

[Jenn25]

Hi, how do you get a specific number for your cardio fitness score? I only get a range.

[fuscia]

I’ve read that an elevated resting heart rate can be a sign of over training. But also, a women’s HR raises and falls through out her cycle, with a increased hr blip around ovulation, and and upward climb towards the start of your period followed by a steep drop. My average HR is 75, no matter what I do, I’m borderline tachycardia, and two days into my period my HR is as low as 62, but only for one day. For over a year my heart health rating was 46, and over the past few months it’s steadily dropped and is down to 40, next stop the OK zone 😞 Ironically I wasn’t running over the summer and just recently started again. When I run my HR gets up to 198, I don’t feel dizzy or anything, just kinda wanting to walk. During the day if Im standing or moving around the house 104-120 bmp, so I don’t know. Either I’m tightly wond or I my heart is whacked. I was running in hot weather and that gets the HR up. But seeing my declining Heart Health rating is really discouraging considering I feel the healthiest I’ve ever been. I’m 40 and eat a pretty clean diet, run and figure skate and lift weights. I think these trackers are inherently flawed 

[abdielhiram]

I totally agree with this comment. I've improved my cardio fitness over the last 7-8 months after disciplined training 4 days a week, specifically running 45 minutes daily. After our last month vacations, even when we walked a lot, and that counted as exercise, I comeback with the flu and stopped running for about 2 weeks. Today I just realized muy score dropped from 45 to 41, and I blame this to the lack of training. It has become difficult because of duties, but I'm slowly getting there to the 4 days a week running. 

[Rowellles]

Factors to consider include 1) alcohol consumption (it negatively impacts my RHR) 2) Vitamin deficiency (Iron and vitamin C, critical for oxygen carrying capacity of blood) not uncommon with the very active and requires taking supplements. 3) ambient temperature impacts heart rate during exercise (my AHR during exercise is noticeably higher with temperatures just in the upper 70s.  I suspect it will be further impacted with even higher temps.)

[samnille24]

that good i love that

[fuscia]

I love that too