Max heart rate zone?

[Upsie]

When I use the elliptical machine my heart rate is in the "peak" zone most of the time. Should I be concerned about this? I'm only 2 months into using my fitbit and starting an exercise program, and I'm currently 60+ lbs overweight. I can keep it in "cardio" but it feels like I'm going ridiculously slow, to the point my Charge HR doesn't even auto-recognize it as elliptical exercise some times. I have a bad knee and the elliptical puts less stress on it than trying to jog.

I typically do 30-60 minutes elliptical 4-5 days a week. Today fitbit said I was in the peak zone 55 out of 59 minutes on the elliptical. Should I back off? Is this going to end up harming me somehow? I'm 34 and female if that matters on the heart rate zone.

[bcalvanese]

---

@Upsie wrote:

When I use the elliptical machine my heart rate is in the "peak" zone most of the time. Should I be concerned about this? I'm only 2 months into using my fitbit and starting an exercise program, and I'm currently 60+ lbs overweight. I can keep it in "cardio" but it feels like I'm going ridiculously slow, to the point my Charge HR doesn't even auto-recognize it as elliptical exercise some times. I have a bad knee and the elliptical puts less stress on it than trying to jog.

I typically do 30-60 minutes elliptical 4-5 days a week. Today fitbit said I was in the peak zone 55 out of 59 minutes on the elliptical. Should I back off? Is this going to end up harming me somehow? I'm 34 and female if that matters on the heart rate zone.

---

I think fitbit uses the 220 - age formula to determine max heart rate. This is fairly accurate for most people, but to get a more accurate MHR you can get a stress test done.

The peak zone is recommended more for short bursts rather than steady state, but if your true max heart rate is more than the 220 - age calculation, then that may be why you dont feel like you are pushing it too much.

I would recommend getting a stress test done, and while you're there ask the doctor these questions as he is better qualefied to give the right answer.

[shipo · Accepted solution]

---

@Upsie wrote:

When I use the elliptical machine my heart rate is in the "peak" zone most of the time. Should I be concerned about this? I'm only 2 months into using my fitbit and starting an exercise program, and I'm currently 60+ lbs overweight. I can keep it in "cardio" but it feels like I'm going ridiculously slow, to the point my Charge HR doesn't even auto-recognize it as elliptical exercise some times. I have a bad knee and the elliptical puts less stress on it than trying to jog.

I typically do 30-60 minutes elliptical 4-5 days a week. Today fitbit said I was in the peak zone 55 out of 59 minutes on the elliptical. Should I back off? Is this going to end up harming me somehow? I'm 34 and female if that matters on the heart rate zone.

---

Clearly the half baked 220-Age formula doesn't apply to you; you can either ignore the zones and pay attention to your breathing as a key to your workout levels, or you can take steps to figure out what your true max heart rate is.

If you opt to simply pay attention to your breathing, the running community follows these simple rules:

• If you can maintain say an hour at a rate where your breathing is comfortable enough to maintain a conversation in short sentences, you're training at a good sustainable rate.
• If you can maintain a faster pace at where you're breathing hard, but are not quite to the point where you're about to collapse, then you're training at what runners call a "tempo" or mock race pace.  This type if workout is typically only employed during the run up to a race.
• If you're breathing very hard, hard enough to be near the point of collapse, slow the heck down; you're going too fast.

[emili]

I would of course ask your doctor at your next visit to be sure. But being overweight puts more strain on your heart, so any activity is going to produce a faster heart rate than someone who is physically fit. If you are not light headed, in pain, dizzy, nauseous, numb or any other symptom other than sweaty, you should be ok to continue. Just stay hydrated and pay attention to how you feel.

[FitBeforeFifty · Accepted solution]

While I think the 220 - age algorithm is statistically relevant, I personally don't think heart rate training is really important for the average person trying to get fit.

Knowing your max heart rate and following a training plan based on heart rate is important if you are training for an endurance race. If you are just trying to get fit and/or lose weight and you don't have a heart condition, it really isn't that relevant.

Last night while running I saw a person wearing a t-shirt that read: "You will pass out before you die." 

If you don't have any medical complications, you should try to push yourself and find your limits. The limits shouldn't be based on heart rate, they should be based on feel and common sense.

Intensity and duration have to be balanced. You don't go all out everyday, you try to use periodization where you have hard days and easy days ... you don't every have back to bad hard days. The recipe I personally follow when training for an endurance race is different than what I use for general fitness but there are some commonalities. 

In general, when it comes to what we often refer to as "cardio" I pick the duration first and the intensity second. If I want to run for an hour, I pick a pace that allows me to finish the run comfortably. If I'm running 4 intervals (fast 1/4 mile,  recovery 3/4 mile) then I run the fast portion fast enough that I can finish the fast portion where it's hard for the first interval and almost impossible to finish the 4th interval.

I don't really care what heart rate, I just know some runs are supposed to be easy and some are supposed to be hard.

[USAF-Larry]

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

While I think the 220 - age algorithm is statistically relevant, I personally don't think heart rate training is really important for the average person trying to get fit.

---

My doctor does not seem to agree with this philosophy - he wants my exercise to be in the Cardio Zone for at least 30 minutes for at least 5 days a week. He never mentioned that I should base the exercise on how I feel at the time.

[FitBeforeFifty]

---

@USAF-Larry wrote:

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

While I think the 220 - age algorithm is statistically relevant, I personally don't think heart rate training is really important for the average person trying to get fit.

---

My doctor does not seem to agree with this philosophy - he wants my exercise to be in the Cardio Zone for at least 30 minutes for at least 5 days a week. He never mentioned that I should base the exercise on how I feel at the time.

---

Your doctor has set a minimum of cardio zone for at least 30 minutes, 5 days a week. To me, that's a minimum. My personal goals are not the minimums, I aspire for more than that. If you want to meet the minimums, that's fine .. be average. I don't want to be average.  Average people don't run marathons. Average people don't have six pack abs. Average people have no idea what they could accomplish if they draw outside the lines.

[bcalvanese]

Knowing your heart rate while exercising is important because, in order to get a training effect (increase your fitness level), you should keep your heart rate at a cardio pace non stop for a certain length of time.

I think the rule of thumb is... 20 minutes 3 times per week for a minimum training effect. Also, being in the peak zone for too long is not good either as you can over work your heart, but short bursts in the peak zone are good to develop speed.

If you are at a poor fitness level (as I was), you should start at the lower end of the cardio zone, and as your fitness level improves, you can slowly work your way up to the higher end of the cardio zone.

Ways to tell if your fitness level is improving are... your resting heart rate will start to become lower, and it will be harder to get your heart rate into the cardio zone at the same pace, but if you want an an accurate measurement of your fitness level you can get your VO2max tested.

Distance and speed/pace are good to measure your progress, but heart rate and time are what make the progress.

JMO though.

[bcalvanese]

---

@USAF-Larry wrote:

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

While I think the 220 - age algorithm is statistically relevant, I personally don't think heart rate training is really important for the average person trying to get fit.

---

My doctor does not seem to agree with this philosophy - he wants my exercise to be in the Cardio Zone for at least 30 minutes for at least 5 days a week. He never mentioned that I should base the exercise on how I feel at the time.

---

Listen to your doctor. the rule of thumb for minimum is 20 minutes 3 times per week, so he is actually recommending a little above that so you can get a better training effect and still be at a safe level. He knows your physics better than anyone here, and I think you are doing great.

[bcalvanese]

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

---

@USAF-Larry wrote:

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

While I think the 220 - age algorithm is statistically relevant, I personally don't think heart rate training is really important for the average person trying to get fit.

---

My doctor does not seem to agree with this philosophy - he wants my exercise to be in the Cardio Zone for at least 30 minutes for at least 5 days a week. He never mentioned that I should base the exercise on how I feel at the time.

---

Your doctor has set a minimum of cardio zone for at least 30 minutes, 5 days a week. To me, that's a minimum. My personal goals are not the minimums, I aspire for more than that. If you want to meet the minimums, that's fine .. be average. I don't want to be average.  Average people don't run marathons. Average people don't have six pack abs. Average people have no idea what they could accomplish if they draw outside the lines.

---

Just because you are so great and have 6 pack abs does not give you the right to belittle other people.

And the minimum is 20 minutes 3 times a week, so @USAF-Larry is doing better than that as recommended by his doctor, and I think he is doing GREAT.

most folks here are not training for a marathon. most folks are just trying to shed some lbs. and get to a good fitness level.

So maybe you should back off a little.

[FitBeforeFifty]

---

@bcalvanese wrote:

---

Just because you are so great and have 6 pack abs does not give you the right to belittle other people.

And the minimum is 20 minutes 3 times a week, so @USAF-Larry is doing better than that as recommended by his doctor, and I think he is doing GREAT.

most folks here are not training for a marathon. most folks are just trying to shed some lbs. and get to a good fitness level.

So maybe you should back off a little.

---

@bcalvanese, you are right and before I get back to heart rate zones I wanted to apologize because it was not my intent to belittle someone's effort. Reading it back now, I should have written it differently.

My intent was not to criticize anyone's effort, my intent was to explain the difference between meeting minimum recommendations and meeting our individual potential.

@USAF-Larry, sorry, I'm not belittling your effort, I'm simply pointing out that your doctor said (in your words) "at least."

[FitBeforeFifty]

According to fitbit, my cardio zone range would be between 119 and 145 and therefore my peak is anything above 146.

If I followed the philosophy that I should limit work in the peak zone to short periods of time, I would be limiting myself considerably. I suppose it depends on what you mean by short periods. My average heart rate for a Marathon is around 150. I've run enough half marathons to know that my optimal average HR to for a half marathon is 170.

I run in the Texas heat, so it's really tough to keep the heart rate below peak.

When I train (which I haven't trained in 2 years) I train using the McMillan calculator which gives you paces for easy runs, long runs, intervals and tempo runs based on previous race results. Training at those paces puts me well above peak for any kind of speed work and that's while doing 1 mile intervals and/or 20 - 50 minute tempo runs. So those are sustained efforts well above peak -- in fact toward the end these are approaching theoretical max HR ranges. In the winter my easy runs are usually below peak but at the upper end of the cardio zone. If I ran someplace with lower temperatures and lower humidity I might be able to use heart rate training but instead I just use training calculators instead.

When I'm not training, I pick intensity based on duration and feel. 

For me, I don't consider the effort required to get in the peak zone, peak effort -- I guess that's my main point. In other words, I can get my heart rate to 146 on a warm day while running at an "easy" pace.

[shipo]

@FitBeforeFifty, you better watch out, our resident traffic cop may take umbrage with your words and report you to the moderation staff.  😛

[bcalvanese]

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

According to fitbit, my cardio zone range would be between 119 and 145 and therefore my peak is anything above 146.

If I followed the philosophy that I should limit work in the peak zone to short periods of time, I would be limiting myself considerably. I suppose it depends on what you mean by short periods. My average heart rate for a Marathon is around 150. I've run enough half marathons to know that my optimal average HR to for a half marathon is 170.

I run in the Texas heat, so it's really tough to keep the heart rate below peak.

When I train (which I haven't trained in 2 years) I train using the McMillan calculator which gives you paces for easy runs, long runs, intervals and tempo runs based on previous race results. Training at those paces puts me well above peak for any kind of speed work and that's while doing 1 mile intervals and/or 20 - 50 minute tempo runs. So those are sustained efforts well above peak -- in fact toward the end these are approaching theoretical max HR ranges. In the winter my easy runs are usually below peak but at the upper end of the cardio zone. If I ran someplace with lower temperatures and lower humidity I might be able to use heart rate training but instead I just use training calculators instead.

When I'm not training, I pick intensity based on duration and feel. 

For me, I don't consider the effort required to get in the peak zone, peak effort -- I guess that's my main point. In other words, I can get my heart rate to 146 on a warm day while running at an "easy" pace.

---

Have you had a stress test done and know your true MHR?

You are probably at a very high fitness level and maybe your MHR is higher than what fitbit uses (220 - age). Also, I think people who are at a very high fitness level eventually do not realy benafit from the standard heart rate zone thing, so the next step would be to train at a percentage of HRR instead of MHR. This would allow for higher heart rates in the cardio zone. Once you cant get any benafits from that any more, I guess there is no where else to go but the peak zone.

I was a fitness instructor in the army way back when I was younger, so I understand the basics of fitness, and that knowledge helped me lose 57 lbs. over the past year, and increase my fitness level from poor to good. My knowledge is pretty basic but it does work for most people.

I try to share this basic advice with others, and most people here are probably just trying to lose some weight and improve their fitnes, and only really need basic advice.

Your points do sound very valid for more advanced fitness.

[bcalvanese]

---

@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

---

@bcalvanese wrote:

---

Just because you are so great and have 6 pack abs does not give you the right to belittle other people.

And the minimum is 20 minutes 3 times a week, so @USAF-Larry is doing better than that as recommended by his doctor, and I think he is doing GREAT.

most folks here are not training for a marathon. most folks are just trying to shed some lbs. and get to a good fitness level.

So maybe you should back off a little.

---

@bcalvanese, you are right and before I get back to heart rate zones I wanted to apologize because it was not my intent to belittle someone's effort. Reading it back now, I should have written it differently.

My intent was not to criticize anyone's effort, my intent was to explain the difference between meeting minimum recommendations and meeting our individual potential.

@USAF-Larry, sorry, I'm not belittling your effort, I'm simply pointing out that your doctor said (in your words) "at least."

---

no problem. I think we all post things that we wish we worded better some times, and I commend you for your humility as well.

thanks,

[Upsie]

Thanks everyone! I confess that some of this is a bit beyond my understanding at this point, but it sounds like I'm probably ok since I'm just sweaty (so sweaty!) and can still talk a bit. For a variety of reasons, seeing a doctor about this isn't something I'm going to do right now. I've already improved a lot since I started (10 minutes would have been difficult when I started, much less an hour) and I don't care so much about training for anything in particular or my specific fitness level as I do about improving it in general and losing weight while avoiding/reducing further damage to my knee.

[shipo]

---

@Upsie wrote:

Thanks everyone! I confess that some of this is a bit beyond my understanding at this point, but it sounds like I'm probably ok since I'm just sweaty (so sweaty!) and can still talk a bit. For a variety of reasons, seeing a doctor about this isn't something I'm going to do right now. I've already improved a lot since I started (10 minutes would have been difficult when I started, much less an hour) and I don't care so much about training for anything in particular or my specific fitness level as I do about improving it in general and losing weight while avoiding/reducing further damage to my knee.

---

Sounds like you're spot on where you should be.  🙂

FWIW, if you're ever inclined to try running instead of the eliptical, if you can find a dirt trail or a nice empty golf course (night is the best time) to attempt running, you might find that as a nice alternative to being plugged into a machine.  😛

[USAF-Larry]

The vast difference between people in their prime trying to reach what they consider "peak performance" and people in their senior years - such as me, in my 70's - trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle, seems have gotten lost in the ether somewhere. Back in my young and foolish days, I too was primarily interested in proving my peak performance - I always exceeded all fitness standards developed by the military, I enjoyed running and winning marathons, I participated in triathlons, I rode in 150 mile bike runs. Life was good!

Then, life happened. A car-bicycle accident left me with 3 crushed vertebrae and other broken bones, a crushed lung, and 6 months in a body cast. During the long hospital stay it was disccovered I was Type-2 Diabetic. A few years later 2 heart attacks really slowed me down.  But, through the dedicated work of my doctor, we have reversed the Type-2 Diabetes, the heart is stronger than it has been in years, and the recent spinal surgery has resulted in me being totally pain free for the first time in years. Life is good!

So, while I applaud those who are trying to establish what they consider their peak performance capabilites, I also encourage those who are just trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle to keep on keeping on!  As the old saying goes, if I had known I would live this long, I would have taken better care of myself!  So, now I am taking better care of myself!  If it bothers others that I am not doing enough, so be it. What I am doing is under doctor supervision, and both he and I am happy with the results to date. Life is great on the green side of the terra firma! 

[Upsie]

---

@shipo wrote:

---

FWIW, if you're ever inclined to try running instead of the eliptical, if you can find a dirt trail or a nice empty golf course (night is the best time) to attempt running, you might find that as a nice alternative to being plugged into a machine.  😛

---

My avoiding running is because I dislocated my kneecap about 4 years ago. Had to have surgery on it because some of the cartilage broke off and had to be removed. At 30 my orthopedic surgeon was showing me the internal pictures of the arthritis I already had in that knee. Now I'm more prone to the kneecap slipping in and out of place and at a higher risk of dislocating it again. I prefer the machines because if my knee goes out there's more likely to be someone there who can help. I disclocated it this weekend doing lunges but it popped back into place by itself so I was just down for a couple days instead of 2 months like the first time. Still hurt quite a bit at the time, so I'd like to avoid that as much as possible.

[FitBeforeFifty]

---

@bcalvanese wrote:

---

Have you had a stress test done and know your true MHR?

You are probably at a very high fitness level and maybe your MHR is higher than what fitbit uses (220 - age).

---

 I have not had a formal stress test but I do know my MHR because of interval training and 5K races.  The end of a 5K race is probably more stress than any doctor would be willing to subject me to

My max HR is higher than predicted but just to be clear, MHR isn't based on fitness -- it's based on genetics and age. Resting heart rate is based on genetics and age at a baseline but then gets lower based on fitness.