Weight loss overachieved - need some (muscle) weight back

[Ralf]

Hello Fitbit community!

I started with approx. 100 Kilos about a year ago. Trying to cut calories and moving more i bought an Aria in July 2014 and started with food logging with the iOS app.

All that time the scale was the only FitBit device i had and i logged any exercise manually.

By November 2014 i reached 73kgs and stepped up my exercises with morning workouts 30-40 minutes (full body, only body-weight) every morning on 6 days a week and added 3 low-weight dumbbell and core strength sessions at 45-60 minutes each.

This month if finally bought a Tracker (Charge HR) but mainly because i need to more precisely know how much i NEED to eat. I came to the conclusion i dropped to much weight and that the FitBit calorie estimations were way to low too continue that way as i now dropped (due to a week with upset stomach) to 65kg at 183cm with the Aria (in lean mode) telling me i'm at 7.3% (no 6-pack abs in sight ofc).

With the Charge HR i'm now getting about 2000 calories estimations for days without workouts.

I'm eyeing towards gaining at least 5-7 kg within the next 2-3 months. Any suggestions on caloric intake and amount of exercise i should do? I had the feeling the 9 workouts a week with just the sunday for resting were too much, or was that just because i didn't eat enough?

My goal is just a lean, fit and healthy toned physique, i don't want to become a bodybuilder.

So to sum it up again: how often should i exercise? And how much should i aim to eat to gain some lean weight?

Would really appreciate your help,

cheers

Ralf

[SunsetRunner]

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@Ralf wrote:

Hello Fitbit community!

I started with approx. 100 Kilos about a year ago. Trying to cut calories and moving more i bought an Aria in July 2014 and started with food logging with the iOS app.

All that time the scale was the only FitBit device i had and i logged any exercise manually.

By November 2014 i reached 73kgs and stepped up my exercises with morning workouts 30-40 minutes (full body, only body-weight) every morning on 6 days a week and added 3 low-weight dumbbell and core strength sessions at 45-60 minutes each.

This month if finally bought a Tracker (Charge HR) but mainly because i need to more precisely know how much i NEED to eat. I came to the conclusion i dropped to much weight and that the FitBit calorie estimations were way to low too continue that way as i now dropped (due to a week with upset stomach) to 65kg at 183cm with the Aria (in lean mode) telling me i'm at 7.3% (no 6-pack abs in sight ofc).

With the Charge HR i'm now getting about 2000 calories estimations for days without workouts.

I'm eyeing towards gaining at least 5-7 kg within the next 2-3 months. Any suggestions on caloric intake and amount of exercise i should do? I had the feeling the 9 workouts a week with just the sunday for resting were too much, or was that just because i didn't eat enough?

My goal is just a lean, fit and healthy toned physique, i don't want to become a bodybuilder.

So to sum it up again: how often should i exercise? And how much should i aim to eat to gain some lean weight?

Would really appreciate your help,

cheers

Ralf

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"lean weight" comes from 1. eating foods in their most natural unprocessed state possible, whole grains,

vegetables, fruit - and meat (at no more than the size of the palm of your hand, per day) and 2. doing some

weight bearing and aerobic exercise, and at a level that your body will accept and a level that you enjoy.

Then, your weight will be what it should naturally be ...

[Heybales · Accepted solution]

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@Ralf wrote:

Hello Fitbit community!

I started with approx. 100 Kilos about a year ago. Trying to cut calories and moving more i bought an Aria in July 2014 and started with food logging with the iOS app.

All that time the scale was the only FitBit device i had and i logged any exercise manually.

By November 2014 i reached 73kgs and stepped up my exercises with morning workouts 30-40 minutes (full body, only body-weight) every morning on 6 days a week and added 3 low-weight dumbbell and core strength sessions at 45-60 minutes each.

This month if finally bought a Tracker (Charge HR) but mainly because i need to more precisely know how much i NEED to eat. I came to the conclusion i dropped to much weight and that the FitBit calorie estimations were way to low too continue that way as i now dropped (due to a week with upset stomach) to 65kg at 183cm with the Aria (in lean mode) telling me i'm at 7.3% (no 6-pack abs in sight ofc).

With the Charge HR i'm now getting about 2000 calories estimations for days without workouts.

I'm eyeing towards gaining at least 5-7 kg within the next 2-3 months. Any suggestions on caloric intake and amount of exercise i should do? I had the feeling the 9 workouts a week with just the sunday for resting were too much, or was that just because i didn't eat enough?

My goal is just a lean, fit and healthy toned physique, i don't want to become a bodybuilder.

So to sum it up again: how often should i exercise? And how much should i aim to eat to gain some lean weight?

Would really appreciate your help,

cheers

Ralf

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6 kg gain in 90 days means 514 calorie surplus over maintenance daily.

Why the same math for weight gain as fat loss?

Because studies have shown that eating at maintenance, you can lose fat and gain LBM (everything but fat, so muscle, water, bones, organs, ect) at the same rate.

In this study of males, rate was 3.5 lbs in 16 weeks, so almost 1 lb a month. They didn't measure for muscle mass specifically, so unknown, but some was likely since water volume will only go up so much.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/778012-potential-muscle-gain-lifting-and-metabolism-improvem...

But eating in surplus, you should be able to do it faster. Sadly, it isn't going to be all LBM trying to reach that extra weight in that amount of time - some will be fat.

But the way to keep most of it non-fat is by weight lifting.

Cardio improvements is mainly going to be about storing more carbs with attached water in the muscles.

So while that is extra LBM, it tops out even for endurance athletes with about 500 cal more stored, and the problem with that training would be actually gaining weight, you couldn't gain enough. And you would tend to lose the muscle not used by the endurance cardio workout.

So a good strong progressive overload compound full body strength training workout at minimum 3 x weekly is the only way you are going to increase weight while keeping the fat gain down.

But as you are contemplating, you don't want to do too much.

For lifting to have max effect, you must lift with max weights for the sets and reps being done - this isn't possible if a heavy cardio workout day before leaves your muscles tired.

So then you fail to cause damage that requires repair that actually ends up growing the muscle.

So also to do a heavy cardio workout the day after lifting with same muscles that are trying to repair - you kill that by being too intense, they don't get stronger and bigger, just unrecovered and stressed.

So cardio must support the lifting, easy on rest days, easy on lead up days. Only time intense cardio won't mess up lifting if it just must be done - is right afterwards with whatever strength you got left.

Then the next day the lifting and that hard cardio can both repair.

Check out Leangains.com for 5x5 workout, perfect match for what you are attempting to do.

And with lifting - you must manually log those workouts for best calorie burn estimate - none of the Fitbit's are decent estimates on their own.

And then with good daily maintenance figure, eat that 500 more daily, workout or not.

Walking is great recovery day workout, as is slow jog up to 60 min.

[Ralf]

Thanks heybale!

Great writeup. Now i have to try and find out what a 500 cal surplus has to be in relation to FitBit's estimations.

This morning i did a 30+ minute HiiT workout. Usually i was wearing a cheapo chest-strap HR monitor and it got clocked at 350-400 calories. This time i did it with just wearing the Fitbit Charge HR and all i got was a measly 197 cals, 22 minutes in fat burning and 1 min cardio.

So i'm not sure what to think about that. Is the Charge's HR really that poor? Or was my previous chest-strap based HR monitor counting too much?

So probably i should be aiming more towards a 750 cal surplus in Fitbit-calories?

[Heybales]

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@Ralf wrote:

Thanks heybale!

Great writeup. Now i have to try and find out what a 500 cal surplus has to be in relation to FitBit's estimations.

This morning i did a 30+ minute HiiT workout. Usually i was wearing a cheapo chest-strap HR monitor and it got clocked at 350-400 calories. This time i did it with just wearing the Fitbit Charge HR and all i got was a measly 197 cals, 22 minutes in fat burning and 1 min cardio.

So i'm not sure what to think about that. Is the Charge's HR really that poor? Or was my previous chest-strap based HR monitor counting too much?

So probably i should be aiming more towards a 750 cal surplus in Fitbit-calories?

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Normally intervals is reference to some cardio workout that could be done steady-state, but then you make some intense, some easy.

HIIT is max intense for short time, about 3 x recovery easy so you can hit (ha!) it hard again.

Exactly like lifting, for those that don't want to do lifting normally, and need to increase muscle for their cardio sport.

If lifting though - skip the HIIT.

So HRM calorie burn formula is ONLY valid for that steady-state aerobic exercise with same HR 2-4 min, because that's the only time there is a correlation between HR and calorie burn that can be calculated with some stats about you, or assumed stats as those HRM's are doing.

But lifting and intervals is neither steady-state nor aerobic, if done correctly, just the opposite.

So HRM calorie burn formula is going to inflate the calorie burn over reality.

Now, if it was really HIIT, and running/walking - then step based calorie burn would actually be most accurate.

The differences in calorie burn between units - cheapo could be using really bad formula, Timex did and maybe still does, badly inflated.

Then again, Charge may not have been reading some of the higher HR's to create a higher average to calculate calorie burn on - even though it would be invalid.

Can you compare past maxHR between workouts using each unit - similar?

[Ralf]

Don't have the chest-strap data anywhere. That info i just checked in-between workouts to see where HR was and in the summary what peaks where. But i do know that i frequently hit well past 160.

What i'm doing are the 10 different workouts from the "stronger" program like this HiiT eg. -> https://youtu.be/By3uueipYxE from monday to saturday. Initially this was meant as a 2x4 weeks with 5 different workouts repeated and second month with the same maybe a tad harder.

It's always Mon:HiiT / Tue: strength / Wed: mixed / Thu: recovery burn / Fri: plyometrics / Sat: mixed / Sunday: off

Once i finished the 8 weeks i kept this as my morning routine i was just switching between the Month-1 and Month-2 workouts every week as i kind of need this in the morning to get going.

I always wondered about the guys in the videos telling they had like 600-700 cals burned on their monitors while unfit-me only saw like 320-420 cals (or now 150-180 from what the Charge HR says).

All these numbers now seem so abitrary. So much for the strategy to quantify and balance or plan my calory in/out.

[Heybales]

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@Ralf wrote:

Don't have the chest-strap data anywhere. That info i just checked in-between workouts to see where HR was and in the summary what peaks where. But i do know that i frequently hit well past 160.

What i'm doing are the 10 different workouts from the "stronger" program like this HiiT eg. -> https://youtu.be/By3uueipYxE from monday to saturday. Initially this was meant as a 2x4 weeks with 5 different workouts repeated and second month with the same maybe a tad harder.

It's always Mon:HiiT / Tue: strength / Wed: mixed / Thu: recovery burn / Fri: plyometrics / Sat: mixed / Sunday: off

Once i finished the 8 weeks i kept this as my morning routine i was just switching between the Month-1 and Month-2 workouts every week as i kind of need this in the morning to get going.

I always wondered about the guys in the videos telling they had like 600-700 cals burned on their monitors while unfit-me only saw like 320-420 cals (or now 150-180 from what the Charge HR says).

All these numbers now seem so abitrary. So much for the strategy to quantify and balance or plan my calory in/out.

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Ya, if they were claiming that based on their HRM's, then they don't understand how they work for estimating calorie burn.

It just means as being more fit, they likely hit a higher high, and before it dropped too low, they went high again. So the avg was higher than if they were unfit. And that would confuse the HRM because it thinks that high HR is based on aerobic activity, and calculates calories as such.

You are getting there though, eventually you'll reach the point you hit a high, and see it drop 40 bpm within 1-2 min of the rest period.

That's what to watch for, recovery HR, and are you reaching the same normal high - which indicates muscles weren't so tired, but fresh enough to push hard enough.

[BaileyGirl]

I had the old Fitbit and put in my weight and then the weight I wanted to achieve. Recently I bought the Charge and love it except it is using my old weight and weight goal. I need to know how to put my current weight in and then my projected goal weight. Help!!!!

[Heybales]

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@BaileyGirl wrote:
I had the old Fitbit and put in my weight and then the weight I wanted to achieve. Recently I bought the Charge and love it except it is using my old weight and weight goal. I need to know how to put my current weight in and then my projected goal weight. Help!!!!

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Would suggest that tagging a help question on a topic with totally different heading isn't going to get you the views to find potential help - plus the wrong section.

But you linked to existing account. Find option in logging for correcting starting weight.