Always hungry

[SunsetRunner]

I'm a food addict. I could say "former" but I don't believe there is such thing as a "former food addict". Basically, recently, for a couple of weeks, I feel hungry almost all time. The problem here is that I can't tell if this is psychological hunger or I am really hungry for nutrients. I just can't tell difference ( ok, sometimes I can ). There are few details though:

- a couple of weeks ago I started intense strength training ( 6 days a week )

- I reduced the amount of cardio, I use cardio as a warmup - usually rowing or elliptical

- What Fitbit estimates as calories burnt is probably an underestimation as all the gym machines show higher HR ( 30-40bpm higher than Fitbit )

- I added more protein to my diet ( plant-based, still my animal protein intake is at very minimum ). For example, I infuse morning porridge with pea protein etc.

- My weight is pretty much constant however fat% lowered ( from 14% to 12% for a period of time )

- I log every day ( with a few exceptions ), last month shows an almost fixed trend ( 49.7-49.8kg )

- I ALWAYS overeat comparing to what Fitbit tells me. My daily calories intake is about 2500kcal, sometimes exceeds 3000kcal. My BMR is 1304kcal.

- I count all I eat ( with a few exceptions when I couldn't specify an exact number like eating out ).

- I take lots of care in preparing my meals to make sure I deliver the right nutrients. Eating out is an exception.

- There is quite visible muscle gain ( to the point I'm being asked if I actually build muscles now ).

- I'm not trying to lose more weight. I'm not on the weight loss diet.

So written all above, I am ALWAYS hungry. Literally, ALWAYS. I try to add more fats to the diet ( snacking on almonds etc. ) however I don't see any effect. My worry is that I can't tell if I'm hungry for real or it's just my old habits trying to burst back in. So should I listen to the huger and eat more? All measurements don't seem to show that I started regaining old fat weight and in fact, they show something completely opposite but I have this inner fear that I may be just fooling myself.

The bottom line is, how do I tell real hunger from psychological one?

[Daves_Not_Here]

@SunsetRunner - I think it's real, and due to your resistance training recovery.  Suggesting you get opinions from @Dominique and @Baltoscott on massing and cutting.

[Baltoscott]

@SunsetRunner -- I don't know if it is really possible to tell the difference, or if it even really matters, but I'm sure some folks believe differently.  Fortunately, since you are not gaining weight, you can afford to eat a bit more. Eat good nutritious food and your body will get what it needs for strength-training.  If you hope to build muscle, you should try to eat at a surplus, maybe 200-500 cal/day.  That, along with the extra protein, are signals to your body to try and grow muscle.   At the moment, it sounds like you are experiencing so-call newbe gains in that your body is reducing its fat stores even though your body weight is staying about the same.  Though you are only a couple weeks into the weight training so it is hard to know.  

I have a few thoughts on feeling less hungry ...

I'm guessing you already get a lot of bulky veggies that fill up your stomach, but that is tip worth mentioning when people say they are hungry all the time.  Potatoes (both sweet and white) are pretty high on the satiety index (as long as they aren't fries/chips!).   Also, it would probably help to add some healthy fats to the mix depending on how much you are getting now -- nuts, nut butters, olive oil, avocado.  

So how do you divide up your food throughout the day?  

One of the tips I picked up while losing weight was to eat less often, until full, 3 or 4 times/day.  If you eat until full, for a while thereafter at least, you won't be hungry.  In my case, I spaced 4 meals/day at about 5 am, 11:30 am, 4 pm (smallish meal), and 7-8 pm.   (I've been trying to gain weight for the past 3 or 4 months, so I added another smallish meal at around 9 am and increased the 4 pm meal, but basically I still adhere to an eating schedule).  With that kind of schedule I am usually hungry about 30-60 minutes before it is time for the next meal.  I'm pretty sure that is mostly real hunger, but it is probably also something of a pavlovian response given that I've conditioned myself to eat at certain times of the day.  

When I ate more often throughout the day, but in smallish amounts just to the point of satisfying immediate hunger, I was only satisfied for an hour or so and then I was hungry again.  

One other thought that I don't think applies to you, but probably does to a lot of people reading this.  High calorie sugary snacks provide no long-term hunger satisfaction.  My boss brought in donut holes to a meeting this morning.  I ate two of them to be polite and immediately felt like I needed to eat a dozen.  This was after an 800 calorie morning meal a couple of hours before that otherwise would easily keep me satisfied until lunchtime.

[SunsetRunner]

@Baltoscott thanks for the reply 🙂 Few details about my eating habits then. I usually eat 3-4 times a day and developed certain habits, for example, I never eat breakfast before morning workout but right after it between 8-9am ( approx. 450-550kcal ). Sometimes I add an extra protein shake but my breakfast is usually infused with extra proteins. Lunch - between 12-1pm, always freshly cooked at home ( benefit of working walking distance from my office ). Usually between 700-900kcal - depends what ingredients I find in my refrigerator. I don't want it to be too heavy though, as I still need some level of concentration at work after lunch. Evening dinner around 7 pm, usually larger, fulfilling meal. Sometimes, 4th meal comes around 9pm ( more like a snack ). In between I snack something like fruits, I'm crazy about carrots and pepper radish, occasional salads and nuts etc. My meals in terms of size are not small. Reasonable in calories and satisfying volume. Usually, after lunchtime, I expect to have consumed approx. 1500kcal. Last meal is approximately 1000kcal or less. Of course, on different days proportions may change. With snacking and meals altogether I end up with 2000-2500kcal in total ( again, depends on the day ). In other words, I'm trying to consume an average amount of calories of an average adult person focusing on delivering rather balanced macros ( although recently I noticed I've been shifting more towards proteins ). This is what it looks like pretty much every day 🙂 As I mentioned, I'm not trying to lose weight, that I have already accomplished.

I include healthy fats ( nuts, avocados, coconut and olive oils etc. ). I don't like white potatoes but love sweet ones ( usually steamed and mashed together with squash or cauliflower ), also baked. Last time I deep fried something over a year ago 🙂 Also, my diet almost doesn't include any meat and reduced dairy ( with exceptions from time to time ).

Might be that sudden change in my activity level caused this issue. Before my main activity was running. Quite a lot but without the inclusion of any strength exercise routine. A few weeks ago I changed that and started improving where I was lacking. As I can tell my hunger has originated around that time. I'm going to observe if anything changes with time.

Btw, "newbie gains" is a very good and descriptive term 😄

[Bogdel]

@SunsetRunner, I expect that you will get different kinds of feedback here, since some of us are on a Whole Food Plant diet, some are Keto, and some, including myself, are Nutritarian. Dr. Fuhrman, in his book, Eat to Live, says that true hunger is felt in the mouth and throat, rather than in the stomach. So, when you feel like eating, try to pay attention to your body. If it is in the stomach area, it is probably false hunger, in which case you may have a large glass of water. This should take away your symptoms. Our body (liver) needs enough time between meals to 1) process the food 2) detox the body. This is particularly important between dinner and the next day's breakfast (ideally, 12-16 hours). 

It sounds to me like you are already eating healthy. See if you can add 2-3 tablespoons of beans to your salad every day. These give you the protein, the fiber, and are being digested slowly (which keeps you full longer). 

For more on true/false hunger, I recommend the book "Eat to Live", by Joel Fuhrman. As you can tell, I am a big fan of him, and his books have helped me a lot (smiling). 

To sum it up:

1) True hunger is in the throat and mouth, not in the stomach

2) To avoid snacking or eating between meals, 1) add some beans to your main meals, 2) drink a large glass of water when false hunger or craving hits you.

3) avoid all processed foods (which are both toxic and highly addictive), or foods that have a high glycemic index (potatoes, white bread, pasta, white rise), which are quickly assimilated and turn into sugar as soon as they are digested. BTW, cheese is highly addictive, too (it has an opioid-like substance that makes us feel good and want more of it). 

4) Read Dr. Fuhrman's books - any of them - they are all very good (smiling). 

Best wishes!

[Dominique]

I thought I was on the light side for a guy at 60-65 kg, and you are 10-15 kg lighter than me. I don’t know what’s your weight history, nor how tall you are, but you could probably gain 5 kg without creating any problem. That would support your newly started strength training regimen.

[emili]

I can't add anything to the physical that hasn't already been said or you don't know yourself.. so I think I want to try the "not real". The fact that you have that thought at all, leads me to believe that you are too cautious or too into you now that going back isn't a "real" thing unless you have some unforeseen, unavoidable, tragic set back. People who eat when their brain signals that they are hungry, don't give it any thought- they assume they are and don't take other factors into consideration. you went their first. give yourself a well deserved "over thinking" about over eating break. You are not going to wake up heavy and out of shape. It won't happen.

[WavyDavey]

With bodyfat that low, I'd guess you're actually hungry because your body needs more calories and protein to adapt to the intense strength training. 

How many grams of protein are you taking in daily?

[SunsetRunner]

Thank you for all your replies 🙂

@Dominique I am very short person 🙂 My current weight is pretty much very normal. I went down 26kg  and my initial weight was categorized as "obese" already.  This is also a reason why it's so easy for me to gain weight as according to my "dimensions" and BMI I need lot fewer calories than a typical meal ( ie. restaurant meal ) provides.

@emili I give quite a lot of thought to the hunger as I learned before how treacherous it may be. The reason I mention my food addiction is that I was usually unable to stop eating. I could feel like my guts were about to explode because of filling my stomach with food and still there was no satiety and I could hardly resist myself from taking another bite. If there was food in front of me then in no time it would be inside me. Continuous hunger was a symptom of that. When I went on diet trying to lose weight I realized how serious my condition was. I was feeling like a drug addict on rehab. I managed to overcome that but I kept the "alarm bell" in my head 🙂 Since I see a similarity in the way I experience hunger hence my worries.

@Bogdel I already implemented healthy changes to my diet many months ago and constantly follow them.

@WavyDavey according to my logs my daily protein intake is about 90-100g ( although less on a day when my activity level is lower so number really depend on various factors ). I follow the computations specified in the book "Training Food". My protein is mostly plant-based however it happens that I add small amounts of cheese, rarely eggs and very occasionally I eat meat ( usually chicken meat ). Animal protein contains approximately 5-10% of my all protein intake in scale of a week.

I'm thinking to satisfy my cravings by juicing. I've been doing it before when I followed my weight-loss plan and surprisingly, think veggie juices that I could slowly sip for even an hour did the job. Not mentioning how healthy that was. Now I'm wondering why I stopped that.