1800-2000 Calorie Deficit too much?

[Raynoszs]

Howdy guys,

Now, I've been excercising and stuff for about a month (since I quit smoking)

At that time I was 82Kgs, I am now, 77.5Kgs with 25% BF (just got my aria scale today)

My main concern/question to all the gurus out there is, A 1800-2000 Cal deficit? Is it bad?

Heres the deal, I eat till I'm full, I monitor it on Fitbit App (every gram) and I've got the Fitibit Charge HR.

Here are some number for you:

Calories

Day        Eaten             Burnt                  Deficit

WED     1475               4182                  2707

THUR    1502               3812                  2310

FRI        1679               3449                  1770

SAT       1589               3639                   2050

SUN       1491              3304                   1813

Now, my main purpose is to lower body fat and get more toned. Ultimate weight of 70kg (which I think is healthy).

Am I doing it wrong, I do about 30minutes weight training and almost an hour of cardio each day. Some days it 20mins of HIIT followed by 20minutes cardio. Either way, I always have the energy to push myself whilst training.

So... If I don't feel hungry and am happy with my current progress... Is it ok to keep it as it is or will I hit some sort of wall and burn all my muscel?

BTW, I have at least 80g protein in my diet everyday (supplement by 2x Whey Shakes)

(P.S. Only had the Fitbit App, Charge HR for 5 Days)

Thanks for your input guys 🙂

[SunsetRunner]

Deficit of 1,800 to 2,000 is absolutely no problem, if you are 1. eating healthy, and 2. getting enough

calories for weight you want to be (if you gave your height and sex, could give you what it should be).

Eating healthy includes unprocessed complex carbohydrates (grains, vegetable, fruit) and a bit of

meat/day (if you want it) about the size of the palm of your hand (smaller people, smaller amount).

[Raynoszs]

True True, since I quit smoking, my taste has completely changed, I can't stand fries or many processed foods.

Heres a typical day for me

Breakfast: Up n Go + Apple + Banana

Morning snack: 1x Protein shake balance

Lunch: 2 Eggs with 1 wheatmeal bread

Afternoon Snack: 1 banana + 10g walnuts, 10g almonds and 10g macadamia

Workout Routine followed by another Protein Shake

Dinner: 100-200grm Chicken/fish with 200g Brocolli, carrots, bok choy, beans and zucchini

So thats my typical day.

Oh and some information about myself

Age: 29

Sex: Male

Height: 167cm /  5ft 5.7 inchs

Weight: 77.5kg / 170pounds

I think my BMR is 1700~

https://www.fitbit.com/user/3HFZDS

[HelenaFitbit]

The weight loss goal you wish to achieve will depend on your current weight and time to lose it. A 1000 calorie deficit for a person who needs to lose 300 pounds is not as hard as a person who needs to lose 15 pounds. 

I'd have to hear what @Heybales has to say, since a really high deficit may cause trouble in the long run. 

[SunsetRunner]

Formula for athletic weight (5% to 10% body fat) for males is 4 x height (in inches) less 128.

So, for 5 ft. 6 in. that's 136 lb. One should eat the calories for what they want to weigh, and that

would be 1,525 cal./day of good nutrition (to get all the nutrients) plus some for exercise (but it's

not necessary to add the exercise calories, as long as you are still trying to lose some weight).

Your nutrition seems high on protein (the shakes can go), and only one egg/day maximum.

[Raynoszs]

@SunsetRunner

Wow, so ideal weight would be 61kgs, I think I'm off by about 17kgs/ 36lbs. Not a bad target.

Yeah, the high protein is on purpose though, I don't want to lose muscle and I'm trying to hit 2 birds with 1 stone.

Reduce weight and increase muscle tone etc thus the weight training.

According to most forumulas, I need to have 0.8 to 1 gram protien per lb to not lose muscle, thus my highish protein count... Is this wrong?

Thanks

[Raynoszs]

@HelenaFitbit

Yeah.. Thats the thing though, my deficit is there due to excercise, I'm still eating a decent amount.. 1500-1700cal per day is pretty good, No?

I'm just confused, I read an article that said you should not have any deficit higher than 500cal/day but dang it, whats the point in working out like a mad man when I must eat back most of the calories I burn?

Especially if I'm not hungry and feel fine and energized?

Thanks

[SunsetRunner]

---

@Raynoszs wrote:

@SunsetRunner

Wow, so ideal weight would be 61kgs, I think I'm off by about 17kgs/ 36lbs. Not a bad target.

Yeah, the high protein is on purpose though, I don't want to lose muscle and I'm trying to hit 2 birds with 1 stone.

Reduce weight and increase muscle tone etc thus the weight training.

According to most forumulas, I need to have 0.8 to 1 gram protien per lb to not lose muscle, thus my highish protein count... Is this wrong?

Thanks

---

You don't need the added protein. Some of the largest and strongest animals in the world are

vegetarians or near vegetarians. Even a potato has about 8%-10% of your daily protein needs.

Yes, some meat/day (if you want it), but just a small amount as mentioned previously. Excessive

protein (as in some "popular" diets), causes diseases. Carbohydrates (complex carbohydrates)

take about 48 hrs. of "transit time". Meat protein takes up to twice as long, and putrefies (rots)

in your intestines. Many high performance athletes are vegetarian, or near vegetarian. If you

do aerobic exercise (and some weights), there is no way you will lose any muscle mass.

[RivalDealer]

Just my own experiences here, having a huge deficit over a long period of time caused the following to happen:

• Huge weight loss at the start
• Weight loss really slowed down after a while
• Energy levels got a low lower
• I couldn't exercise with the same intensity as before
• I couldn't exercise for as long as before
• Eventually weight loss halted and I felt like doing nothing at all

Personally I feel like my body adjusted to the new low amount of calories being consumed and somehow manages to get by on much less, as if it has learned to be more thrifty.

Here is a report from my own tracking:

As for what to eat and what not to eat, this is a controversial topic. Do your research, experiment and find what works for you.

Everybody is different, I wouldn't make decisions on what I eat based on what worked for someone else, we have the tools to track what we eat and how it effects our mind, health and body composition. Keep a log of what you eat (macros), what you do (weight training, running, etc) and how you feel every day, reviewing this data will give you the answers you are looking for.

[Heybales]

You really think your body is happy getting 1/2 or less what you burn daily?

It'll of course get that from the normal fat and carbs and muscle not rebuilt with as little as you are eating, and as little protein as you are eating.

Your are likely worse than the average 20% of weight lost is LBM (Lean Body Mass), some to be exepected, the muscle mass hopefully not desired.

That last one will be the kicker for not being successful long term.

Unless you feel like repeating this again next year with less muscle mass and even harder to do it.

If you think you can be successful in eventually getting to goal weight (sounds like you better not get sick or injured such you can't exercise as much, or your eating level will be nothing basically to keep that weight loss - what then?),

are you ready for maintenance to be this fact?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

You say you have the energy to push yourself - that's great it feels that way. That's subjective though.

For objective - is your pace actually the same? Should be higher if you are lighter though.

Is the weight on the bar higher? Should be higher for full-body lifts by the same amount and more than what you've lost in weight.

Could also be your have badly inflated HR and the normal calorie formula is way off - and you aren't burnig anywhere near that much.

That should be 4 lbs weekly if just fat. Would be more if it includes unrepaired muscle, which provides less calories per lb.

[Raynoszs]

@Heybales

I dunno, my body feels happy getting 1/2 or less of what I burn...

My current BF is 25%

I've lost about 5kgs in 4 weeks (10lbs)

As far as energy levels, When I first started my fitness routine.

Max speed I could run @ was about 6.2kmph - Now I can maintain 8kmph for my usual 30min run.

Max weight I could bench was 30kg, Which has now increased to 40kg (8rep*4)

Max weight I could curl was about 10kg per arm, which is now at 14kg per arm (8 reps*4)

Push-ups are much easier now, I used to barely manage 10, now I can hit 20, but stop at 15 to do more sets

My heart rate, resting is apparently 71-73bpm.

My work is outdoors, I'm out and about all day, I'm a phone tech, so I'm up the ladder, up poles, walking loops etc, So my days are pretty active...

I dont feel drained or lazy in the day time, if anything, these days I feel like I've got a boost of energy for my days. I do feel pretty wasted after my workout session (which is normal?)

I've only recently started the protein shakes to up my protein as per the 1gram per pound forumula (which is A LOT)

So yeah.. Should I force myself to eat more?? I mean, on my current diet, I am well and truely full, I have cut out refined sugars and sweets (ice cream, candy, kfc, takeways).

i guess I could add calories by adding junk back into my diet but that just doesn't seem right 😕

EDIT:

Oh and Ive checked the accuracy of my Fitbit Charge HR by comparing to a pulse oxymeter and the traidtional finger on wrist for 15 seconds. The Fitbit Charge is spoton, 1-2bpm range.

[Bjorn]

---

@Raynoszs wrote:

So yeah.. Should I force myself to eat more?? I mean, on my current diet, I am well and truely full, I have cut out refined sugars and sweets (ice cream, candy, kfc, takeways).

i guess I could add calories by adding junk back into my diet but that just doesn't seem right 😕

---

If you're looking to consume more calories without getting them (regularly) from refined sugars and sweets, I'd suggest adding more natural oils and fats/butter to your diet. ie: Have more nuts, have more hard boiled eggs, olive oil, etc. 28 grams of olive oil is around 247 calories. So if you need to eat 1000 more calories then you'll need about 112 grams of olive oil more per day.

[SunsetRunner]

@Raynoszs

The Youtube video provided by @Heybales is about a flawed and controversial experimental process,

using "shakes" to establish calorie intake (doesn't work, because there is no natural fibre) and providing

artificial "drug" injections of leptin (rest of your life presumably) is far from natural and not necessary.

I went from 240 lb. to 160 lb. (and a competitive athlete) by following a natural complex carbohydrate

nutritional format (grains, tubers, vegetables, fruit and a bit of meat). That was 35 years ago, and there

is no need for "shakes" or "drugs", but just a commitment to not putting junk into the body's fuel tank.

The suggestion by @Bjorn to add more fats/butter/eggs etc. (high cholesterol artery blocking) will

only lead to health problems. There is good scientific evidence that (and you need to do the whole

thing) calorie restriction with optimal nutrition and exercise, will increase/optimize your longevity.

The best "diet book" (not a diet, but a lifestyle of nutrition and exercise) is The Pritikin Promise and

it is cheap in paperback on Amazon. Just invest a few dollars (and reading time) in your health, and

then people won't be able to feed you nonsense. Use your Fitbit products to record your success.

[jogginjulie]

You've made some good strength and stamina gains so far but you will most likely stall at some point if you keep your deficit this low.  It's best not to eat below your BMR.  Take an average TDEE and deduct 20% to give you your daily calorie intake.  That way you will lose at a nice steady sustainable rate and not sacrifice lean muscle in the process.  There are plenty of healthy foods you can use to increase your calories....olive oil, nut butters, avocado etc.

[Bjorn]

Hi @SunsetRunner,

I'm curious about some of what you wrote. Are you saying fibre is necessary for the body to utilize a calorie from what you've just consumed?

How does this apply to overweight/obese sedentary people who regularly drink sugary soft drinks from cans or franchises? They can gain so much weight from overconsumption of sugary drinks. Do these drinks have the fibre that qualifies caloric intake?

What is controversial or flawed about using a shake to establish calorie intake if one can gain so much weight from drinking sugary drinks (high calorie intake) and living very sedentary lives where they are not burning off any of what they've consumed? The test subjects received the calories they needed, and all the nutrients the study wanted them to have. This is something like what happens to people who are comatose and placed on an introvenus system, no? (I don't really know, I'm genuinely asking this. I'm not in the mood to google.)

Is the use of a multivitamin a taboo thing? Is it subject to controversial scrutiny?

[SunsetRunner]

---

@jogginjulie wrote:

You've made some good strength and stamina gains so far but you will most likely stall at some point if you keep your deficit this low.  It's best not to eat below your BMR.  Take an average TDEE and deduct 20% to give you your daily calorie intake.  That way you will lose at a nice steady sustainable rate and not sacrifice lean muscle in the process.  There are plenty of healthy foods you can use to increase your calories....olive oil, nut butters, avocado etc.

---

@jogginjulie

As suggested previously, @Raynoszs should eat (good nutrition) at the calories for what he wants

to weigh (that's the BMR at his weight objective). With good nutrition and exercise, there will be no

loss in lean muscle mass. Adding the fats (even the "good" fats), is counter productive to this.

[SunsetRunner]

---

@Bjorn wrote:

Hi @SunsetRunner,

I'm curious about some of what you wrote. Are you saying fibre is necessary for the body to utilize a calorie from what you've just consumed?

How does this apply to overweight/obese sedentary people who regularly drink sugary soft drinks from cans or franchises? They can gain so much weight from overconsumption of sugary drinks. Do these drinks have the fibre that qualifies caloric intake?

What is controversial or flawed about using a shake to establish calorie intake if one can gain so much weight from drinking sugary drinks (high calorie intake) and living very sedentary lives where they are not burning off any of what they've consumed? The test subjects received the calories they needed, and all the nutrients the study wanted them to have. This is something like what happens to people who are comatose and placed on an introvenus system, no? (I don't really know, I'm genuinely asking this. I'm not in the mood to google.)

Is the use of a multivitamin a taboo thing? Is it subject to controversial scrutiny?

---

@Bjorn

Fibre is a natural constituent of natural foods, and (certain kinds) are necessary for the absorption

(removal) of excess cholesterol from your system. Fibre is also necessary to the proper functioning

and health of digestive system, promotes transit time, is preventive for many intestinal problems.

Vitamins/minerals (a supplement to good nutrition) can be useful. During the evolutionary process,

we consumed about twice as many calories (and therefore nutrients). So, eating about half of the

calories (we are just not hunter/gatherers anymore), means we need to add vitamins/minerals. 

There's no need to be excessive, just one good "one a day type" of multi-vitamin/mineral tablet.

[Bjorn]

---

@yarddog wrote:

Fibre is a natural constituent of natural foods, and (certain kinds) are necessary for the absorption

(removal) of excess cholesterol from your system. Fibre is also necessary to the proper functioning

and health of digestive system, promotes transit time, is preventive for many intestinal problems.

Vitamins/minerals (a supplement to good nutrition) can be useful. During the evolutionary process,

we consumed about twice as many calories (and therefore nutrients). So, eating about half of the

calories (we are just not hunter/gatherers anymore), means we need to add vitamins/minerals. 

There's no need to be excessive, just one good "one a day type" of multi-vitamin/mineral tablet.

---

What was in the video that you found controversial?

[SunsetRunner]

@Bjorn

As mentioned in my initial response:

"The Youtube video provided by @Heybales is about a flawed and controversial experimental process,

using "shakes" to establish calorie intake (doesn't work, because there is no natural fibre) and providing

artificial "drug" injections of leptin (rest of your life presumably) is far from natural and not necessary."

[Bjorn]

---

@yarddog wrote:

@Bjorn

As mentioned in my initial response:

"The Youtube video provided by @Heybales is about a flawed and controversial experimental process,

using "shakes" to establish calorie intake (doesn't work, because there is no natural fibre)  necessary."

---

Are you saying fibre is necessary for the body to utilize the calories from what food/shake consumption? So does this mean high calorie beverages will not count towards caloric intake because there's no natural fibre?

Additionally, the video didn't leave me with the impression leptin leptin had any part to weight management outside of this study. I'll have to review it sometime, but I think the leptin was used to create a specific response for the study.