Close to 3000 cals per day, what?!

[JenniLacey]

According to my Fitbit I'm burning around 2500-3000 cals per day. I am a 32 year old woman, 5'2 125 lbs. This seems really high! Mind you I'm pretty busy... I work on a fast pace assembly line 40-48 hrs/week, I'm also a mom of 2 young children, I workout most days and do very long walks. For example... yesterday, I did about 50 minutes of heavy weight lifting, I went for a 2 hour nature walk a leisurely pace (8000 steps) and then went in for an 8 hour shift. According to my Fitbit I burned 2900 cals.

I have a hard time believing that if I ate 1500-2000 cals I'd lose 1 lb/week. Or that if I ate what I burned (2500-3000 cals) I'd maintain my weight. It seems I would gain weight eating that amount. I've gained weight recently and I certainly wasn't eating over 2500-3000 cals a day. Is it possible my body has adapted to the type of work I do and I am burning signficantly less than that? I tend to rack up about 13 000 - 15 000 steps at work alone pacing back and forth quickly. I walk about 2-3x a week at leisurely pace for around 10k. I used to do about 45-60 mins of intense cardio 5x a week, plus 3x a week of heavy weight lifting but I've since cut back to around 30 mins cardio 3x a week and 50 mins of weight lifting 3x per week.

Is there some sort of metabolic adaption for active people?

[BigPayne]

Every action your body performs uses calories: breathing, heart beating, walking, your metabolism, blinking, etc..  That being said, if you ate 25,000 calories and burned as many, you would be simply maintaining.  Each pound of fat takes 35,000 calories to burn.  So you need to burn that many calories in excess to what you are eating to lose 1 pound of fat.  That takes a bit of working out, and also watching your diet.

Metabolisms can speed up or slow down depending on your lifestyle, as may be your case, but regular working out and a healthy diet would increase your metabolic rate.

The body can adapt to physical demands, especially if the diet is not contributing to its needs.  It can hold fat and burn muscle, for example.  With intense cardio, you tend to start burning muscle, so if you are lifting and doing cardio, I would suggest trying something like a hiit workout for your cardio.  I would recommend seeking a personal trainer to see if maybe that is where the issue lies.  

[JenniLacey]

It's actually -3500 cals to burn 1 lb of fat. Thanks for the reply but I already know how to lose weight or how weight is lost/maintained/gained. I know how calories are burned; metabolic rate, activity, planned exercise, etc. I've already lost 60 lbs and have been maintaining a healthy weight for over a year but I haven't been tracking calories and such lately so I'm just trying to do a check in to see how many calories I need to eat to maybe lose about 10 lbs before my wedding. The problem is that I am skeptical of how many total calories my Fitbit predicts I am burning for my TDEE.

I don't have any issues losing weight. I'm just getting started again. I already eat healthy. I already do HIIT and am very muscular. But I am far more active than I was the first time I lost weight so I'm not sure where I'm at for my daily calorie burn. I'm just skeptical that I am burning 2500-3000 cals a day... I really think I'd gain weight if I tried to eat that much. This is more a question relating to the accuracy of my Fitbit when estimating TDEE.

[Snowflakepdx]

Hello
2500 to 3000 calories a day is normal for someone who is physically active. It is very expensive to eat quality foods and avoid eating foods that will create insulin issues when eating that many calories.

[Heybales]

I'll bet it actually is underestimating your line work, since it's probably a lot of standing.

Fitbit assigns BMR calories to all non-moving time - so what you burn sleeping is given to any sitting or standing non-moving.

And you burn more doing both - especially standing.

There is no metabolic adaptation - your body improves to movement by using more fat as energy source, and being able to do it with slower HR and breathing rate.

But you burn the same calories if you weigh the same.

Now - eat too little or create too big a deficit - now you are talking about making the body adapt, and it can indeed start burning less than it would otherwise.

Metabolic efficiency it's being called, adaptive thermogenesis it's been known as, metabolic damage is the scare name. Not really damage as body is working just fine, sadly the end result is usually not what anyone wants - having to eat even less to still lose weight, and maintenance being lower than it could have been.

[JenniLacey]

Thanks Heybales. Interesting, I just read one of your responses on another question and found it really helpful. You linked an article from T-Nation on metabolic damage. I was training very heavy for the last year and have been... for some time now, experiencing all the symptoms of metabolic damage and caught in the proverbial "tug-of-war".

Recently I hit a wall and completely burned out which is why I cut back on my training and especially my cardio. T-Nation recommends for those in stage 3 of metabolic damage to eat less, exercise less and I actually started doing that recently all on my own... I have been noticing huge improvements in my cravings and other symptoms. I am however, pressed... I am probably creating far too large of a defict still... at around -500 to -1400 cals duriing work days and 1 day a week over predicted TDEE... because I want to lose some fat before my wedding in Aug. Also I am having trouble buying that I am actually burning my predicted TDEE because of metabolic damage. It seems if I consistently eat around 2500 cals, I gain weight.

Basically, I have no idea what to do now with the wedding coming and the pressure on. I know I *have* to cut back on my training, which I've already done. On top of working an active job, going for marathon hikes... I was also running for about 45-90 mins most days. Totally insane, I know... and "gaining weight" so that obviously wasn't working. I recently took a week and a half off from training. I've also cut back on my cardio significantly and have been taking multiple rest days/week where I just do a hike/walk or rest completely. I'm continuing to lift (full body sessions for about 45-50 mins) 2-3x week. I've been eating an average of 1500 cals a day which I'm worried isn't enough but afraid if I don't eat that little... I won't reach my goals in time for my wedding.

[Heybales]

Ah, so you are caught up in that type of adaptation then.

And you have a quick goal.

How would you feel about big improvement in inches lost, but perhaps not goal in weight?

You aren't going to wear a scale around your neck with current weight on it, with sign next to it stating goal weight, right?

So healing can take awhile, depending on the level of abuse.

Or you can go the route of just cutting more and more and eventually you'll have suppressed about the 20-25% you can, and you'll start losing.

In this state your body makes the least if any improvements from exercise, because why improve the body with something that requires more energy, when it's already suppressing the system to burn less because of lack of energy.

So that would mean an otherwise healthy system burning 3000 TDEE would burn 2400, and you'd have to eat 1900 just to lose weight at 1 lb weekly.

In this case your Fitbit estimate of calorie burn would be wrong, take 20-25% off.

Can you adhere to that low level to actually lose weight, and willing to accept maintenance being that much lower than expected (like if maintenance at goal weight is 2200, you get 1760, which means final eating level was 1260 too)?

That would likely be for many months until it started repairing and speeding up when you stopped losing weight.

Or, look at what you could be burning daily, which means you could be eating more and having a reasonable deficit and losing weight, and exercise actually makes a great improvement.

I would suggest you ditch the cardio, except for walking 60 min. Maybe 30 min if you have time and just need it at the end of a workout you could run. You don't need that increase in daily burn to make eating level easier, your work does that.

And that main focus workout needs to be weight lifting, 3 x weekly full body, major compound moves engaging many muscles. Heavy for you, so 2-5 sets, 5-12 reps, whatever is heavy enough the last few reps of last set are or almost are a failure to form. No easy.

If you don't have much time, 2 sets x 8 - 12 reps is great range. You keep increasing reps with initial weight until you hit 2 x 12, then you increase weight and drop back to 2 x 8 reps. Increase again.

Only need about 6 lifts.

Squats, shoulder press, deadlifts, pullups or lat-pulldown or bent-over row, straight-leg deadlifts, bench press. Throw a few ab crunches on end, but you'll find your core totally engaged already doing the above.

You MUST manually log that on Fitbit as a workout since Fitbit is step-based only activity. Log it as Weight Lifting power lifting done that way. Only 1-3 min rest between sets and lifts. Don't waste energy doing jumping jacks or such foolishness, focus is on lifting heavy and tired muscles can't do that.

It won't be that many calories burned compared to cardio, but that's true. It burns more fat later during repair. But you need a decent estimate of daily burn.

Only walk between days, hiking is fine. You just don't want to ruin the repair from lifting by adding another heavy load to the same muscles. Walking for blood flow is great.

Like I said, if you feel you gotta run, 30 min max right after lifting.

Not sure how much you have to lose, but make the deficit too great, you won't make it easy, as you've proved already.

So up to 10 lbs is 250 cal deficit or 0.5 lb weekly.

10-30 lbs is 500.

30-50 lbs is 750.

50 over is 1000.

So pick whatever is reasonable.

If that resulting goal is 300 over what you usually eat and where you are currently maintaining, then it's repair time.

Find your current average eating level over past 2 weeks.

Eat 100 calories daily over that amount for a week.

Just so you know, always do the math. If current eating level was really maintaining, that is current TDEE.

If you ate 100 more than that and your metabolism did NOT repair and speed up, it would take 35 days to slowly gain 1 lb of fat. Actually, weight lifting, won't even be fat.

Reread that for assurance.

Because you should gain more and faster water weight, because your glycogen stores have been probably major depleted. But that raises metabolism right then too.

And you need that water weight, just like I hope you wouldn't think it was useful to lose blood because it contains water too.

Only weigh on valid days to minimize water fluctuations, because you'll have big ones now lifting.

Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

Each week eat 100 more daily until you've reached that new eating goal, then just follow the adjusting goal depending on daily activity.

Now, it would be best to really unstress your system by continuing that increase in calories right up to potential TDEE, or matching what you burn daily with eating. Let the fires really burn fully. Because going up to only the deficit amount is NOT a reduction in stress to the body fully.

You may see no progress in weight loss there, but the body may be willing to make improvments from workouts, and burn fat - so inches will drop.

But keep increasing the eating up to what Fitbit says you burn, and metabolism will keep going up where it wants to be. Spend a week eating at true potential TDEE.

Now take the deficit and actually lose weight and fat at same time. It usually is faster that way from people I've helped.

Any questions let 'em rip.

Oh, in case you enjoyed that reading, here's the study showing how much the suppressed their bodies in general, and the repair possible. And notice they came from background of NO exercise or weight loss attempts, healthy otherwise. You missed out on this state already. I think you can read this without being a member, if not let me know.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-l...

[JenniLacey]

Thank you, you've been so helpful.

Actually for the last couple months I've stopped tracking calories and just ate. I would guess.... I was eating an average of 2500 cals at most and gaining weight over the last 4 -5 months (despite my high calorie burn and excessive cardio + weight training). Around Christmas, I was close to 115 lbs (after a few months of low cals, averaging 1500 cals and losing about 10 lbs from Sept-Nov if I remember correctly). Then I slowly gained back about 10 lbs. I was eating an insane amount some days, others much less. I was experiencing intense cravings, night eating, etc. This has been the perpertual rollercoaster I've been on for the last year in a half ever since I reached my goal weight (I went from 165 lbs to 107 lbs at my lowest).

So basically, I'd say from Jan-April... I have been eating above TDEE and have gained 10 lbs. In April-May I began reducing my calories again. I don't like to "deal" with the scale. I haven't weighed myself in some time. I take body measurements instead. I just started actually counting/logging calories again this week, prior estimating. I know approximately how much I weigh by my waist measurement. It's about an inch larger than I usually am at 115 lbs. An inch lost in the waist usually translates to a 10 lbs loss which is what I'm looking at. Not much, I just want to get to the bottom of my comfortable range for my weight so I can eliminate some problem areas for my wedding day (that typically appear once I reach 120 lbs+).

I've been lifting for over a year now. None of that has changed. I am pretty muscular. I workout at home but have a bench and barbell. I stick to 4 main lifts *always* deadlifts, squats, overhead press, bench press but usually throw some variation into the rest of my routine and have 4 assists.

So I'm wondering if I have done some repair already...? In that 10 lbs gain. I don't mind doing a slow gain after my wedding and into the fall/winter to do some serious metabolic repair. Just want a last hooray! for my wedding, lol.

I would probably and usually do... still lose weight eating around 1800-2000 cals but very slowly and I'm in a bit of a crunch. I know, it's the pits because the faster you try to push these things... the harder your body resists. I'm just hoping that during that 10 lbs gain that I did rev up my metabolism a bit and it's ready for one more short round. What do you think?

[Heybales]

So that kind of weight gain from splurges is different than slow and steady from constant too high eating level.

That's the problem with cheat meals/days. They can work great if used from the start. But if used after your body has already adapted - then they are just a day or meal of excess - and that means fat.

It's why someone can claim they only eat 1200 calories but gained 5 lbs over a month.

No, the goal was 1200, and while obtained on 5-6 out of 7 days, it was the other 1-2 days that caused the weight gain. If total average was taken it might not even look bad, like no weight should have been gained, but the normal math is out the window with suppressed body.

If you had close to the same routine when you ate 1500 and only lost 10 lbs in that long a time, it looks pretty much like during that time you could not have been burning 3000 either, or your food logging is badly inaccurate.

If your metabolism had been rev'd up - it be apparent in the results.

Does the math match your results.

If burning 3000 and eating 1800-2000 - you should be losing 2 lb + weekly.

If far less than that, say 1 lb weekly - then you can decide.

Is your food logging that terrible?

Is your metabolism not where you think it is?

[JenniLacey]

Oh, maybe you misunderstood me... 3000 cals is *not* my average TDEE. My average according to my Fitbit tends to be around 2600 cals (with 3000 cals in a day at my highest, a low day... maybe 2100-2300 cals). It's actually after Christmas it's been ramped up signficantly (more cardio and in the early Spring I started hiking again). Before Christmas my average TDEE would have been lower when I lost those 10 lbs. Maybe in the 2200-2500 cal range?

Yeah, I think the "splurges" definitely wreaked havoc on my weight. I think If I had maintained around 2400 cals of good quality food, the weight gain wouldn't have been as significant, I would have maintained or even possibly lost weight but I had virtually no control over the binges that were occurring at the time. Seems as soon as I stopped the excessive cardio, they went away. I have always suspected that the days where I over ate (binged) contributed to fat gain, despite creating a deficit the rest of the week.

I'm think now that by cutting way back on my cardio that I will see my TDEE trending in the 2300-2400 cal range.

There will be a couple months where I track every speck and morsel. There are times I take a break and try to do met. repair and focus on building muscle and just eating right. So tracking is off and on.

As for the last gain... I was not tracking at all, just guestimating and having wild swings in the amount I ate from one day to the next. No way of really telling what happened there other than way too much exercise and way too much eating, also... wild swings in eating pattern from one day to the next. I just doubt I was averaging far above a 2600 cal intake to account for the gain but... as you said... perhaps it had to do with the extreme excess of calories (binges) from one day to the next or perhaps I was eating way more than I thought. No way of telling for sure.

So easy to lose 60 lbs... It's taken me twice as long just to maintain my goal weight and I've actually increased my GW by 10 lbs. Always yo-yoing. I reach it for a month and then shoot back up in weight again and back to struggling again with a stubborn 10 lbs.

[JenniLacey]

So let's say I am getting an average burn of 2300-2400 cals. Keeping cardio to two short sessions on the weekend, 3 lifting days during the week and 2 rest days. Would a reasonable and safe calorie intake be around 1800 cals? What do you think would happen? Would I still continue to shape up in time for my wedding? I feel like I'm really close already so maybe increasing my calories would be helpful. I actually feel in the 6 weeks I am already noticing those problem areas shrinking and I know when I get too few calories it just leads to wild cravings and binging.

[Heybales]

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@JenniLacey wrote:

So let's say I am getting an average burn of 2300-2400 cals. Keeping cardio to two short sessions on the weekend, 3 lifting days during the week and 2 rest days. Would a reasonable and safe calorie intake be around 1800 cals? What do you think would happen? Would I still continue to shape up in time for my wedding? I feel like I'm really close already so maybe increasing my calories would be helpful. I actually feel in the 6 weeks I am already noticing those problem areas shrinking and I know when I get too few calories it just leads to wild cravings and binging.

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The less deficit you have, the more changes the lifting will cause on the body.

If you manually log that lifting so the Fitbit daily burn is close to accurate, a 500 cal deficit probably isn't bad now.

I'd actually eat even 250 more after the lifting workout within 24 hrs. So some days a 250 cal deficit, some days a 500 cal deficit. And more calories during repair time like that will really help the changes.

Hopefully help adherence too.

[Dforster08]

I've been looking for a healthy way to lose weight. Just recently moved over to a new carrer, and it's not as physically demanding as my last job. I cut back on cals and started drinking a lot of water. Currently trying to cut out soda down to 12oz a day but the caffine headaches are agonizing. any tips on what I could do to avoide the caffine headaches but still stay in the healthy range?

[JenniLacey]

Thanks again for your advice. You've been very imformative and helpful! I think what I'll do is increase my daily calorie intake by 100 cals each week until I reach potentional TDEE. From eating around 14-1500 cals to reaching 2400-2500 cals (I'll base it on my daily burn). It will take a bit of time to get there and in the meantime I'll probably continu e to lose weight and have reached my goal weight (or there around) by the time of my wedding and by the time I've reached my maintenance levels. Hopefully, that way I won't cause any major shock on my system, crazy hormones and uncontrollable eating, major weight gain, etc. A slow increase will also make it easier to tell aproximately where I'm maintaining and how far from potential TDEE I actually am, as long as I continue to keep track of how many calories I'm taking in.

Then once I'm eating at predicted TDEE... even if I am slowly gaining weight during the fall/winter. You've given me confidence that it should fire up my metabolism and I'll eventually begin to maintain at potential TDEE. That is my final goal; to reach my optimal TDEE and get off the dieting rollercoaster. Maintain withing 5 lbs both East and West of GW.