Confusion over wieght loss (lack off)

[JohnCaesar]

Hi folks I'm John, I recently started go to the gym, literally just 3 weeks in, week four starts in the morning.

I know this will this is not enough time to be seeing any big amounts of physical change.

I'm going to put down some stats of my body and what my life style is for scope.

Age 31

Wieght 210lbs

Hieght 5, 8"

My life style is pretty simple, I'm a carer for my partner, I (was) living a very sedentary life style. Other than general house hold chores add cooking, I very seldom went out or otherwise active.

Since just after Christmas I have been going to the gym on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. My sessions will consist of purely cardio at the gym, 40min bike, 2-3 mins cool down, 3-4 mins letting my muscles take a breather before doing a 2000m row, max resistance=10 mins. Same recovery time and onto a high paced treadmill inclined walk for 40mins. This workout will burn on average 550-600 calories.

At home I am doing weights on a daily basis, 2x10kg dumbbells, I have a dozen different exercises that I do that work my legs, abs, back, arms and shoulders. Included multiple muscle groups at the same time.

I do 20reps x 3 sets each exercise, this typically takes 1h15mins to complete with 30-60secs rest between each set and exercise.

In my first week I lost about 7lbs, I contributed most if not all to water loss. In week 2 lost 1lbs to 210lbs total. Since then I have maintained 210lbs, dispite my workouts.

I should probably mention that I did change my diet when I started the gym. I have cut out pretty much all processed augers, no pop, no sweet, cake etc. Took control of my portion sizes. And generally just stopped pigging out on rubbish.

My typical diet is nows aimed for moderation but not be obsessed with counting calories etc, I'll take 4x weetabix with 500ml of full fat milk or so = around 500cals, that will see me through till tea on a gym day, I am having more meats with good protein, steak, chicken, turkey, pork, fish etc with fresh veg, or some rice depending on the meal = about 700-800cals or so. With a snack here and there on a banana or apple or otherwise fruity. At the weekend and Tuesday/Thursday at dinner I'll have a sandwich, usually ham on wholemeal bread.

That is pretty much it, I know I am roughly consuming 1200 to 1500 cals.

Acording to the Mifflin-St. Jeor Equation, my body needs to 1,883 cals bare minimum to do all its stuff to keep me living. Multiply that by the 1.2 sedentary live style, it brings it to a total of 2,260. So already I'm on a deficit before working out. On a gym day with a multipier of 1.7 for a very active day (gym/weights at home) I will need a total of 3,300 cals.

So if my rough maths is in the ball park and my body requires around 18,900 (19k) cals per week in my new routine, and I'm eating the higher amount of jist 1500 cals per day= 11,500, a deficit of 7,500cals.

Research has shown 3,500cals is  about equal to 1lbs lost, so how is it that I have maintained my wieght for 3 weeks when I should of lost the equivalent to about 6.5lbs in 3 weeks.

I find it a little counter intuitive and confusing on many levels. Any insight any of you may have would be greatly received and if not I hope you've found it an interesting read.

P.s whilst living in this routine and diet, to date now I have just started to see muscle tone coming through, particularly in my arms and shoulders. Also I am sleeping much better and o erall feeling much better, I am not eating after 7pm and I am for the most part staying full at night anyway.

Pps my goal btw is to loose fat and not so much actual body mass as such, I'm relatively happy at 210 though 195 would be a happy target, whilst build muscle, I don't won't to be a monster but I wouldn't say no to a body similar to Jason Stathem, Transporter days or Death race.

Anywaya again thanks in advance guys ☺

[JohnCaesar]

Apologies for the typos 👍 

[Dominique]

Welcome to the community, @JohnCaesar!

OK, if I understood correctly, your starting weight was 219 pounds. You lost 7 pounds during week 1, 2 pounds during week 2 and 0 pounds during week 0, so you’re now at 210 pounds. According to my calculation, it’s a 9 pounds loss in three weeks, not the lack of weight loss you’re complaining about. An average loss of 3 pounds per week is more than respectable. Quite often, weight loss does not happen in a fully linear fashion, so you have to look at things over longer periods of time. As you said yourself, three weeks is still a relatively short period of time. Just because you saw no further loss on week 3 doesn’t mean your weight loss has stalled, or you’ve reached a "plateau". If you know you are doing all the right things, just carry on and trust the process. You can make slight adjustments in your intake and your activity, if needed, after a few more weeks. 

Glad to hear you have been able to see changes in muscle tone in just three weeks. Last summer, I reported changes in my physique that took place over 3.5 years. Granted, I’m almost twice your age, so you may be able to achieve visible results much faster than me, but building muscle is a slow process. It’s also very hard to do it while losing fat at the same time. All this to say you have to be prepared to play the long game.

[JohnCaesar]

Thanks @Dominique and for your input, I'd just like to say I'm in no way complaining, literally was just a little confused as to how I could be on such a deficit but still maintain wieght in week 3. This is all new so some learning (alot) to do.

More time will will Ofcourse, naturally, show a more detailed view/results.

Yes week 1 lost 7

Week 2 lost 2

Week 3 lost 0

Today start week 4 gained 1

I brought it up with one of the gym staff today and he explained a good few things to me.

His opinion is of the same as yours, that if its working for now and my health is good then to stay with my current routine and diet. For a short term period as such though, for now I am balancing things out with enough weights to keep me healthy whilst burning fat, he seem to think I will keep maintaining this level at my current routine. 

He also pointed out that at some point when I have lost enough body fat that the current calorie level will no longer be good and my body will start to break down the muscle that am working up. So when that time comes I will have to starting increasing my calories to a level that will be good for building muscle.

(Makes sense)

So yea absolutely the long term game like you say and I'm committed to it, mentally and financially.

It seems like two stages as such for now.

Stage 1 burn fat, maintain muscle and develop tone (definition).

Stage 2 to maintain a low fat level and increase muscle.

I was heading for 16 stone and very low stanima levels. But the wieght has always been on my belly, thighs and backside. My arms have alway been, slender!? But untoned, so maybe that's why I am seeing changes in my arms and shoulders already.

Either way the feeling I get after a good workout is awesome, sweating, aching, sometimes hurting. I used to think those people were tapped in the head lol but I get it now.

Thanks again. 

[HAlys]

Are you going purely on weight, or also Body Fat %?
It is quite possible you have lost weight, but gained muscle if you are already noticing tone, and as @Dominique said- weight loss unfortunately never happens in a predictable or linear fashion.

Did you take measurements, as well as before/ after pictures? That may help if you're feeling discouraged.

For example- since the new year, I have only lost 0.02 kilo weight, but I've gained 3 kilo of muscle, and lost 2% body fat. Muscle obviously weighs more than fat, so I'm not all that upset as my clothes are fitting better and I'm nearly back to my pre-surgery/ Christmas weight and tone.

Also, my only other thought from reading your food is that too much carbs and not enough protein- also quite possibly you aren't eating enough to fuel your body for the output (exercise) you are doing and your body is essentially holding onto the fat.

[JohnCaesar]

Hi @HAlys so the aim is to mostly loose body fat, I feel OK with my weight at 210, I don't mind if I drop a little.

Like with my calorie in take calorie intake I am not recording every single gram, but I have dropped my carb level to around 150-200 average, and increased my protein intake to around 50g (meats and milk with my breakfast) about 20g of fibre.

I want to work on a law of averages, as knowing my mind I think counting everything will not be metalally healthy for me and will end up being counter productive. 

I haven't took measurements no, though I can see that may show better results than a mirror or scale.

I have taken pictures yes, but to early to see any real difference. Other than the shape of my upper arm on a side profile. 

One other thing I have literally just noticed, I can visually see less fat on my pubis area, its not as spongy for lack of a better word.

Thanks

John

[bikerhiker]

The level of stress in your lifestyle basically dictates the amount of calories you need to consume to maintain homeostasis.  So the higher the stress level you are in, the more likelihood you need to consume more calories to maintain satiety.  Since you are not tracking your calories intake and output, but based solely on feeling good and full, this is what I suspect.  I too no longer track calories in and out, but basically observe how much I eat.  I also work as a male caregiver and a male nurse and I take care of extremely difficult mental clients and dementia clients and in some days, they are like Freddy Kruger and can literally hurt me or kill me.  One managed to knock out my wisdom tooth and caused me thousands of dollars to fix it.  Having said that, as my stress level goes up I do notice a huge energy drain in myself as if some kind of vampire sucked the life out of me.  Usually it was after some stressful situation with those difficult client as I care give as a side job (home support) -- food cooked does not taste good, coffee too cold and not sweet enough.  Of course, they are not nicely telling me this. Suffice to say; it is these episodes of threats and anxiety is when I actually eat more.  Mostly the power bars and back home, sweet snacks.  Those calories count.  But seemingly though; as I managed to overcome the threats, the stress level and the anxiety level that comes with my job in nursing, I managed to curb the needs to snack or eat more.  So when I hit a weight plateau; I always asked myself.  Why am I fearful against people who bully me or put me down when I'm providing good care for them to improve their quality of life?  Once I figured out that I am safe from their threats, then I don't need to worry more than I have to and consequently the weight will go down because I no longer need to eat as much to comfort my stress level.  Food can be used as a way to comfort you; it is a coping mechanism.  As your lifestyle improves and your stress level lowers will you then see your body follow your mindset. 

[JohnCaesar]

That's an interesting point of view, thanks for the input. Though I believe I can safely say that my life will not be nearly as stressful as yours.

I think my body may be holding on to the carbs or maybe sensitive to carbs, idk. I'm gonna give it some more time, say another few weeks with my changed dietary habits and exercise. 

I'm thinking I might even tone down the cardio abit, as I'm currently doing about 1.5 hours 3 times a week, and set up a 4 day split, with a 30 - 45 min cardio, followed by this on the respective days.

• Day 1: Back, biceps - 4, 3 exercises, 3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Day 2: Chest, triceps - 4, 3 exercises, 3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Day 3: Rest
• Day 4: Legs - 5 exercises,  3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Day 5: Shoulders - 4 exercises, 3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Days 6-7: Rest

@bikerhiker

[JAMIE9999]

I noticed you didnt say anything about fats youre consuming, that can be an issue as well

[Dominique]

---

@JAMIE9999 wrote:

I noticed you didnt say anything about fats youre consuming, that can be an issue as well

---

Do you mean he’s not consuming enough, he’s consuming too much, or he’s consuming the "wrong" kind?

[bikerhiker]

@JohnCaesar

In my opinion and in my own weight loss experience thus far, whenever I introduce a caloric deficit in a form of dietary intake + exercise, the resulting weight loss ensues until I hit the first weight plateau.  I remembered last year around August to September of 2018 that during the first weight plateau, I exercised even more and at ate even less, but then I got the opposite effect.  My weight went up and down and up and down and yet, the rhythm was always a straight line.  I got frustrated because I was on a roll then and lost quite a significant amount of weight, but this wasn't my first attempt in weight loss.  As a former pre-diabetic (no longer now as I had reversed it), my weight sort of plateaued @ around 142 lbs for my whole entire life.  My waist line then @142 lbs was always around 32" (now it is closer to 29") so "ALL" my pants including the older jeans from the early 90s now feel so loose!  In the past, I did all the extreme exercises from running marathons to ultra marathons, ran 10k in 35min and did 180km bike rides.  Even with all those extreme endurance sports, my weight wouldn't budge.

What I had discovered from the medical conference I attended in 2018 in late September was actually about mental health, and how people think with their minds can create stress in the body that can eventually lead to illnesses.  While the conference focused mainly on mental health and the sharing of experiences and observations from other health care practitioners, I do know that obesity is an illness and it starts with the mind, which of course piqued my interest about the correlation my own weight loss plateau and what's going on with my own mind.  Anyhow it was then sometime popped in my head and then a few weeks later; things started to change as I changed my approach to weight loss.  I relaxed my diet routine and relaxed my exercise routine.  Basically, going against what my mind thinks -- more caloric deficit the better.  When I did that, I actually felt less stress because my mind wasn't preoccupied with thinking why and how should I do better to get this darn weight off!!  If you look at my trendweight, you would see that it took a month of relaxed routine before I started losing weight again!  The second stage of weight loss; I did something differently..

1, I started introducing the food that I banned in the past on Saturday and Sunday like burgers, fries, pastries, baked goods (like my fav banana bread, chocolate eclairs). ice cream and Chinese food with MSG.  All of these were supposedly BAD for weight loss and BAD insulin level etc.  As I found out, whatever you see and read and listen on Youtube is NOT the full truth.  My GP and the doctors I worked with had always told me repeatedly that you don't need to fully ban these food.  Just eat them in moderation.

So I make Sat and Sun as my treats day.

2, I exercise to maintain health and well being.  Meaning that while I do weight training and cardio training in a form of swimming and cycling, I don't make it like a fixed regimen that I have to do them and when and at what time period.  I do them whenever I feel like I want to do them.  No pressure, no stress, but just fun and joy knowing I am keeping my body in shape and well.

3, I don't work on my body to be thin; but work on my mind and the body will follow the mind.  If the mind is kept thinking and feeling positive, in the end the body will follow the mind being in a positive state which is not obesity!

Following these new principles, I lost 7 lbs in 2 months until I hit the second weight plateau.

Even during the second phase of my weight loss, I ate according to my needs, which actually happened to be less.  Like I don't need to consume as much, so it was a natural caloric deficit; not artificially set by some rules.  Again, I think this contributes to less stress to my mind.

Now almost after 1 month during my second phase of my weight plateau; I just duplicated what I did in my last plateau.  If you look at my trend weight again, it is this week when my weight is now starting to go down again.  Again; it was something I resolved last week with myself and my mind that triggered this next phase of weight loss.  And it seemed to correlate to what I heard from the testimonies of other health care practitioners who attended the care conference.

To me, this approach is more sustainable, because you are NOT artificially forcing the body to adapt to the desires and expectation of a stressed mind, which is never positive by forcing something anyhow.  That's my observation thus far and I am feeling much healthier, stress free and have deeper sleep.  Out of that conference, they were showing some people who are super agers (people who live healthy lives without any of those sickness of obesity) and they had crafted an acronym --  S.H.I.E.L.D. 

S stands for Sleep (deep stage 4 sleep had been proven to help fat loss and the removal of plague in the brain that cause Alzheimer's dementia)

H stands for Handle stress (meditation, resolving childhood built up traumas rather than running away from them)

I stands for Interaction (Interacting with different kinds of people, race, ethnicity, cultures etc..)

E stands for Exercise

L stands for Life long learning

D stands for Diet

Researchers had concluded that people who practice SHIELD have all the healthy attributes of good weight, positive mind, live over 100 years old and look and act like people who are half their age!

Anyhow; good luck on your weight loss! 

[JohnCaesar]

@JAMIE9999 Hey I've been monitoring macro nutrition on the fitbit app. Over the last week I've averaged 52% carb, 25% fat and 38% protein. Level of calories have been around 500 lower of my BMR. 

@Dominique

[JohnCaesar]

@bikerhiker That's very interesting, healthy mind healthy body, that is actually the approach I've been going for. Without being to open in a public forum, I have been working through a whole sack of s**t, including depression.

So I have been working alot on my mind this year and trying to get it in a good place.

I'll take note on that S.H.I.E.L.D.

Thanks 👍 

[JAMIE9999]

He didnt say anything at all so i cant answer

[JAMIE9999]

I mean he never said

[JohnCaesar]

@JAMIE9999 I had said I have cut out processed foods, so pretty much all those kind of fats 👍 

[SunsetRunner]

@JohnCaesar

---

I'm thinking I might even tone down the cardio abit, as I'm currently doing about 1.5 hours 3 times a week, and set up a 4 day split, with a 30 - 45 min cardio, followed by this on the respective days.

• Day 1: Back, biceps - 4, 3 exercises, 3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Day 2: Chest, triceps - 4, 3 exercises, 3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Day 3: Rest
• Day 4: Legs - 5 exercises,  3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Day 5: Shoulders - 4 exercises, 3-4 sets, 6-15 reps
• Days 6-7: Rest

---

I would suggest that you do cardio after weight training so you'll have more energy to lift the weights for better workouts.

Another suggestion you might consider is HIIT cardio sessions at 24-30 mins.

[JohnCaesar]

@SunsetRunner just found a great article on that https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/ultimate-8-week-hiit-for-fat-burning-program.html

I'll take a gander, thanks 👍 

[Dominique]

I know HIIT is all the rage in fitness circles, and only wimps would consider LISS (low-intensity steady-state) cardio. "The Ultimate 8-Week HIIT For Fat-Burning Program" certainly sounds like an irresistible proposition. However, HIIT isn’t necessarily the be-all and end-all of fat burning. For one thing, it’s best suited for those who least need it, i.e. people already fairly lean and fit: for someone overweight and at the beginning of their fitness journey, the sheer intensity of HIIT sessions may just be too much and even dangerous. Secondly, HIIT requires longer recovery periods, and typically can’t be performed everyday: a HIIT session certainly burns more calories per unit of time (= in relative terms) than LISS activities like walking or jogging, but if you compare 3 weekly HIIT sessions of 20 minutes to 7 walks/jogs of one hour, the latter likely burns more total calories (= in absolute terms), even taking into account the alleged "after-burn" (EPOC) effect of HIIT. Speaking of which, the idea that by doing HIIT, one becomes a crazy round-the-clock fat-burning machine is vastly exagerated. 

@SunsetRunner recently praised his wife for going from 325 to 170 lbs, writing this about her approach: "I like to think of her as the poster child of moderate exercise. She didn't go crazy with high intensity training, but she consistently (3-4 days a week) went to the gym and incorporated weight lifting and cardio with moderate intensity in mind." Very sensible indeed IMO. 

[SunsetRunner]

@Dominique  @JohnCaesar

Have had a look at "The Ultimate 8-Week HIIT ..." now, and yes, it's a bit (to say the least) over the top, unless you're already in pretty much top shape.

I have only done HIIT cardio using a stationary bike or elliptical and that has been working very well for me with a maximum of 3 sessions per week. For me, the benefit of HIIT was mostly to improve my blood circulation for improved muscle recovery, improved VO2 max, and the apparent added benefit of making it easier to get rid of visceral fat (yet to be confirmed by studies), not for any perceived afterburn effect as it would be minimal anyway (less than 100 kcal per session) according to what I have read.

I started out with what I could cope with, moderate intensity intervals a total of 14 minutes, and then slowly increasing intensity and time as I got fitter.

My advice is absolutely to listen to your body when you do HIIT to make sure you don't overdo it. Don't hesitate to cut a HIIT session short if you have any doubt about if you can handle it.

Kudos to @Dominique for his clarification! My bad for not reading the webpage until now. 

Btw, @Dominique you were quoting @SunsetRunner where it states High Intensity Training, HIT, which as far as I know is weight training related and completely different from HIIT. What is the correct understanding of that quote?