Diet / Calorie-counting Burnout

[A_Lurker]

So, I've reached the point where, although it's become somewhat second nature, I'm really tired of the calorie counting and logging everything.  Now, unlike some, I count to make sure that I eat enough as well as not too much.  I have a tendency to eat too little, which results in physical burn-out.  However, I also know that if I'm not super-accurate it can blow all my good work.  Also, the same with daily weighing.  The last couple of weeks have been stressful and the weigh-ins all over the map even though my food has been in control.

Decision time, what to do.  One of my coworkers in the challenge said he's got to the point where he doesn't count.  However, his breakfast, lunch and snacks are all some form of protein shake and/or bars.  That would drive me nuts.  Even my maintenance week involved counting (again, to make sure I eat enough).  I want to change things up a little until perhaps the new year.  Now, days out of my control I will probably still log/estimate so I'm not completely out of whack, but I'm toying with the following idea.

Breakfast/morning snack (382 calories + piece of fruit):  500 calories
   10g oat flour
   10g unsweetened cocoa powder
   20g hemp hearts
   40g unsweetened, unflavoured protein isolate
 100g three-berry blend

Lunch (~500 calories + piece of fruit): 600 calories
  ~6-8oz of chicken, pork (uncooked weight) - clearing out the freezer
~187.5g frozen veggies (Basically a 750g package roasted with the meat, then divided)
   lettuce / vegetable salad with 1Tb dressing

Afternoon Snack: 200-250 calories
     single serving of hummus
     veggies (low) or crackers (high)

Dinner: Various (900 calories)

Evening Snack: 250-500 calories (higher if lower calorie dinner and/or higher calorie burn day)
  - weaning myself off the junk food with no redeeming qualities (chocolate covered fruit, gummies, etc.)
  - cheese, nuts, trail mix maybe, etc.  <--- will still watch the portion sizes on these

That leaves me plenty of flexibililty for the evening, but doesn't bring me home horribly low in calories.  And looking at today I'm pretty close to doing that already:

Breakfast/morning snack: 437 (added more frozen fruit, forgot to pack the fresh fruit)
Lunch: 691 (higher because I used a packaged salad - going to stop doing that)
Afternoon Snack: 168 (hummus with grape tomatoes)

So, with the exception of checking calories on new dishes, I'm not going to count calories until the new year.  I will still be adjusting the evening stuff based on how many calories I've burned that day.  Also will probably log on the days we have visitors in the plant and/or meals out.  I also started the great cookie ball project yesterday - made 178 Triple Chiplet Cookies with Skor bar bits instead of the nuts.  They are 77 calories each once baked.  ie. I'm not completely dumping the idea of calories in vs calories out. 

Wish me luck.  

[Baltoscott]

Seems like a pretty good plan. @A_Lurker  You've got a lot of structure built into breakfast, lunch, and afternoon snack so no need to count anything there, which only leaves calorie counting for one meal and one snack/day.  

I need to start losing weight again (I go through it every couple of years) and I probably won't make it happen until I plan out a week's worth of 2000/day calorie menus and then just stick with that menu for a few months.  

[WendyB]

Sounds like you have a great plan Anne. I agree with @Baltoscott You have a lot of structure. And its all well thought out. Im sure you will do fine.

My Breakfast and lunch are pretty much the same. I does change between the salads and soups what not for lunch. But breakfast doesnt chnage a lot

Please keep us posted!

[Glenda]

                                    Go to https:www.dietdoctor.com/fasting-effective-calorie-counting   by Jason Fung who explains that your body adjusts to the number of calories you eat and your metabolism slows when you restrict calories consistentently.  It is just as effective and lots easier to only diet 2  non-consecutive days a week because then your metabolism doesn't slow.  Most people don't really fast.  Men eat 600 calories and women 500.  You can google 5-2 diets.   If you avoid carbs you will not be hungry.  When I was allowed only sugar to prepare for a colonoscopy I decided to skip eating completely which was definitely better than sugar.  I didn't get hungry.  Glenda  

[A_Lurker]

@Glenda- I've been at it since February of this year and have lost about 90 pounds.  I take definite diet breaks where I eat maintenance for a week.  I don't think I would do well with IF eating, mainly because I'd still have to count everything as I often (when dieting) have more of a tendancy to undereat.  Tonight for example I came home with little desire to eat (I actually think I'm coming down with something that's upsetting my stomach).  I had probably only had 1000 calories but I have managed to pick at another 700 calories.  For me though that's still about 800 calories too low for me (and that's on 1000 calories of a defecit).  Too many days of too low calories and I drop energy drastically.

Interesting point, even though I don't subscribe to IF I certainly have days when I won't eat for as much as 16 hours (usually Sat/Sun).  500 calories a day though, when I burn sometimes over 4000 would be a disaster for me.  Been there, done that, doesn't work for me. 

[Glenda]

Wow! I guess it is all the running using all those calories? I don't know anything about running even though my daughter ran 3 marathons. I just gave her moral support and provided a potty and curtain.

I'm sure you know best what works for you. I am small and old so we are worlds apart. Hope you stay healthy forever. Best wishes. Glenda

[Dnoyes]

If you are a reader google Dr Jason Fong.....author of the Obesity Code and Co- author of the Ultimate Guide to Fasting.

I stopped calorie counting because I was always below the calories out and it became time wasting for me. Most people on a ketogenic diet really don't calorie count anyway. I can even eat calories over as long as I stay in ketosis by watching the macro units ....high good fats, moderate protein, and low carb.

[Dominique]

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@Dnoyes wrote:
I can even eat calories over as long as I stay in ketosis by watching the macro units ....high good fats, moderate protein, and low carb.

---

Are you saying that being in ketosis will cancel the laws of energy balance and allow you not to gain weight even when eating at a surplus?! Now, that would be new to me.

[Dominique]

You have been very meticulously logging your intake for a long time. So on one hand, it’s understandable you’re experiencing "calorie-counting burnout", but on the other hand, you’ve become very good at winging calories in almost any food item or meal by simply looking at it. I’m quite confident you wouldn’t start a relentless binging and make drastic changes to your food choices even when not counting calories. Even if you notice things go a bit out of hands, you can always go back to calorie counting after this experiment.

[Dnoyes]

Why don't you read his articles that are available online and free and you will understand how the body's metabolism is affected by the kind of calories we intake and why calorie counting usually isn't an issue with those on a ketogenic diet because of what we are eating and how the body converts that to usable and sustainable energy that has various health benefits.

[Glenda]

                                      Somehow I have "jogger" after my name.  Nope, I never jog.  I eat lots of doughnuts and yogurt with chocolate chips in it & things.  I weigh 117 pounds and don't really count calories.  Seems to me most people should be able to eat when the feel like eating until they don't want to eat more, most of the time.  I can't imagine that all that counting is necessary unless the person eats only Ding Dongs rather than any real food.    When my weight goes up to 119 pounds I skip eating for a day mostly.   But I try to eat some vegetables and protein every day.  I am very grateful for artificial sweeteners.  I eat lots of that which gives everyone else fits.  I've eaten a whole boatload and have no health problems and I am OLD.  At the moment I have lots of grapefruit in my fridge as it is a negative calorie food.   I don't count that on my not eating day.  ho ho ho

[A_Lurker]

@Dnoyes  I've done low-carb before, and I can't stick it.  I know lots of people have their 'perfect' diet, but it's a no-go if you can't stick to it forever.  I take most of my carbs in through fruits and veggies, and I still land at about 40% carbs.  To some this is already lower-carb, but anything lower than that doesn't work for me.  Doing keto isn't an option, no matter how good it might be.  Same with low-fat vegan.  I'm a firm believer that you need to find something that you can follow for the rest of your life to be succesful.

@GlendaI burn my calories through a combination of walking, rowing and an elliptical (the last two items are new).  I know the physics of running and I'm not willing to put that much weight on my knees after decades of being morbidly obese.  Today I've come home from work with almost 10,000 steps.  I'll add another 5000-10000 in exercise before I go to sleep.

[A_Lurker]

@Dominiqueyou're right, even if I'm not logging I'm still pretty much counting.  I've basically set known meals and dinner and snacks will be adjusted in the evening.  Last night I wasn't in the mood to cook, and I left my snack at the office.  So on the fly I did a meat and cheese snack and a salad.  After working out and getting ready for bed I knew I was still likely too low so I added some nuts (enough to bring me in range).  I stepped on the scale this morning (something I wasn't going to do either) and my weight is down from Sunday.  I'm not that concerned.  In a way it's just another experiment for me.

I have started the Christmas baking - I did this last year, where I took somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1800 cookies, fudge, chocolates to our plant for the various shifts.  I've been measuring and logging the calories in the ingredients for the first three items I've made.  In the end it's between 70-80 calories each, so when I get to that point I know my cut-off is 4 for the day I take them (instead of an afternoon snack).  Although, usually by the time I'm done the last thing I'm interested in is a cookie.  At this stage they are just cookie balls in the freezer.

[AndyDandyPandy]

I gave up calorie counting after a month of precise counting. I only needed 1 month to see how much I am eating and from that point on I just estimate my calories. A few hundred calories up or down won't hurt because it all balance out. Sometimes going in too deep into health is not great either. You will go nuts. At the end of the day listening to your body works best for me. It's obvious if you've over or under eaten. Forget and forgive.

[Glenda]

 A_Lurker,  I understand now that you are not all really runners.  Fitbit sent a note.  I still don't know how to give you a thumbs up though.  I'm very impressed that you have managed to lose 90 pounds. !!!  Good for you.

       Carbs cause me to want to eat all day so I think it is better to eat that stuff late in the day.  When I eat oatmeal with apple chunks in it, 2 hours later I am ready to eat again.  If I eat an omlette I can forget about eating for a long time.   My concern is for my daughter who weighs  at least twice as much as I.  She likes to eat bread and is not willing to go low carb and she notices that  most people who lose a lot of weight gain it all back.  However I think the 2 days a week thing isn't nearly as tedious as all the other diets and I can do 2 days a week or even one is very helpful.  And I think she could do that AND eat bread.  

[Dominique]

@Dnoyes: I’ve done my home work, thank you. A calorie is a calorie, a unit of energy, nothing more, nothing less. And energy balance is what matters most for weight loss (or gain). Otherwise, Professor Haub wouldn’t have lost a bunch of weight eating a diet of Twinkies (and Doritos, Oreos etc.). Granted, the nutritional value of Twinkies, Doritos etc. is questionable, but it’s not the point here (for weight loss). The point is: in order to lose weight, you need to be in a caloric deficit. You lost a bunch of weight, @A_Lurker also lost a bunch of weight. Yet, you didn’t follow the same diet and eating style: you ate a low-carb diet and followed intermittent fasting, while @A_Lurker ate a decent amount of carbs and several meals a day. Your respective diets and eating styles resulted in a caloric deficit. The same cause (caloric deficit) produced the same effect (weight loss). Only the means to the cause differed.

The hierarchy of fat loss is:

1. Adherence
2.  Energy balance (calories)
3. Macronutrients
4. Micronutrients (vitamins, nutrients)
5. Nutrient timing 

No diet - no matter how good - will work if you cannot adhere to it. This is what @A_Lurker said about low-carb. Everyone needs to find something that floats their boat.

Calories come next: you were able to lose weight not because of some black magic created by your special combination of macronutrients (low-carb, high-fat, moderate protein), but because this resulted in sustainable under-eating for you.

Micronutrients matter too: the nutritional value of fresh veggies is better than that of white bread, for instance. But you can eat the healthiest diet with all the vitamins etc., if it results in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight.

Nutrient timing: same as macronutrients. No black magic created by intermittent fasting: it’s just a style of eating that causes better adherence for you. If you are going to eat 2000 calories in a day, it doesn’t matter if you’re eating all of it in one sitting (or during the "eating window" of your IF protocol) or split between 3 or 6 meals.

Just because you don’t need to count calories on your ketogenic diet doesn’t mean calories don’t matter. It just means you’ve found a diet you can adhere to that puts you in a caloric deficit without having to count calories.  I don’t count calories either, even if I don’t follow a ketogenic diet, so it’s not the only way to achieve this.

[DJC_63]

@A_Lurker  Good luck! I know how you feel about counting cals every day.  I havent been doing it much lately. It gets so tedious. I tend to eat mostly the same things each week so Ive gotten a good idea of what combinations I can eat depending on what I've done re: activity.

It seems like you have a really good plan, so I think you'll do well.

[Glenda]

Dominique you are leaving out a critical factor.  Your body does a wonderful job regulating lots of things all without your help.    If you eat less, your metabolism slows down.   The number of calories required  is less. to match what is available.   After you reach a goal you will not be able to eat more without gaining weight unless you  increase the number of calories you eat  very slowly to allow the body to adjust upward .  Glenda