Eating too much? You can blame your brain.

[Dominique]

An interesting article by Brian St. Pierre from Precision Nutrition:

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/eating-too-much-blame-your-brain

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Precision Nutrition whatsoever. I just happen to find most of the stuff they post on their site of value.

[Ukase]

A great article! I agree - it has value. 

But still, it only touches the surface. The thing we all forget is that "hedonic eating" isn't normal. At least, isn't supposed to be. Eating is supposed to be nothing more than oral nutrition delivery. Somehow, for better or worse, we discovered Twinkies, Frito-Lay and Nutella. The truly brave among us have found a way to combine all three. 

If, we can somehow train our brains to eat foods that are nutrient dense, as opposed to being empty calories -- long sentence here - grammar nazis let me be - I'm on the clock now and can't take time to write properly - (one can argue that twinkies, chips, donuts etc- they provide some nutrients, but most accept that they pale in comparison to a balanced meal like beans, rice and lean chicken. Or eggs. Or oatmeal. Or just about anything someone would make themselves as opposed to buying at a store.) But - as I was saying if we can train our brains to eat better quality foods - we'll get our nutrients with a lower tally on the calorie count. 

But - the rub is - if we're at a calorie deficit too often, our thyroid will down-regulate - so our metabolism drops with it.  We've got to meet our caloric needs every so often to keep this from happening if we want to keep losing the weight. How often will vary with each person. So, I'm a believer in a cheat meal if the meal has so many calories to bring you just slightly over your day's requirements to break even, or a cheat day if you're breaking up the calories over several meals. 

We just have to keep an eye on the metrics! 

[JamieS_Wisco]

Really good article @Dominique.  Thank you for sharing

Jamie

[JohnRi]

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@Ukase wrote:

But - the rub is - if we're at a calorie deficit too often, our thyroid will down-regulate - so our metabolism drops with it.  We've got to meet our caloric needs every so often to keep this from happening if we want to keep losing the weight. How often will vary with each person. So, I'm a believer in a cheat meal if the meal has so many calories to bring you just slightly over your day's requirements to break even, or a cheat day if you're breaking up the calories over several meals. 

We just have to keep an eye on the metrics! 

---

Great article @Dominique

Last year I started my weight loss journey in August. At first I made some minor diet changes.  Then once I was cleared to execise late September, I started to exercise.  Very little, every other day.

I made more diet changes, and starting in October I was in caloric diet.  Although I don't have exact numbers until I got my Fitbit on November 7th.  From that point I can say that I have NEVER had a day where I ate more calories than I burned that day.  I've had a few days were I came within a couple hundred.  But for the most part I have been eating 1000-1500 few calories than I ate that day.

Until recently, I have never been hungry.  It's only now as I get closer to my goal, that my body is starting to fight me.  Making me hungry at times I should not be hungry. 

At this point I'm eating around 750-1000 fewer calories than I'm eating each day.  I have 22 lbs to my first goal, and another 13 after that is my second and final goal.  So 35 lbs to go. 

I've also been able to keep my lean mass around 155 lbs since February, and lost 52 lbs of fat since then.

From Feb to Late May/Early June I keep a diet at 1800 calories a day.  I've increased my diet a few hundred calories twice.  Each time in response to my fat % holding steady, and lean mass falling.  Each time a small increase in calories reversed this.  At the moment I burn around 3200-3300 calories a day, and eat around 2200 calories. 

I don't subscribe to a cheat day concept.  Yeah I've had days where I ate a lot more, but they were days I also burned 4000-4500 calories. 

Take a look at my weight loss chart from Trendweight.

This is a drop from 281 lbs to 205 lbs.  My reading this morning at 204.4 was bogus due to water loss from walking in the 99 degree heat yesterday. 

I feel that a cheat day just negates any gains you make on other days.  But I suppose eating close to your calorie burn every once in a while is ok.  I'll do that when I don't exercise.  But rest days are rare for me too.  I haven't had a day off since July 2.  And that was only due to a stomach flu.

A lot people think cheat days are eat all you want, anything you want.  I have a friend that does that.  I swear every weekend he must eat 6000 calories a day.  The other 5 days he eats well.  Doesn't lose any weight....

I have "cheat" items with my diet, but only within my calorie budget for that day.  10 months of controlling every calorie I eat, and you can see my results.  For example, I'm going to have either a Buffalo or Elk burger at lunch today, with a french fries.  Around 840 calories.  Well within my 2200 calorie budget for today.  After my afternoon snack I should be around 1400 calories for the day.  Leaving me 800 calories after my workouts this evening for dinner around 9:30 PM.

I don't believe my metabolism has slowed down.  Yes my BMR had dropped 600 calories.  But I'm adding muscle mass, so my metabolism is slowly increasing.  My Aria shows the muscle mass going up slightly, and my rep count and increased weight size when I'm doing weight training confirms the muscle gains. Plus I can see the muscles in my body getting bigger.

But bottom line, losing weight is more art, than science.  Everyone is different.  And this article just shows how complicated weight loss is.  It's far more complicated than eat less, and exercise more. 

This article just confirms what I already knew.  Out bodies don't play fair!  And neither does the companies that make the crap I USED to eat.

Keep it up everyone!

[shipo]

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@JohnRi wrote:

Until recently, I have never been hungry.  It's only now as I get closer to my goal, that my body is starting to fight me.  Making me hungry at times I should not be hungry. 

---

Thinking back to my weight loss journey three years ago, I got to the point where my body started to fight me; the only difference is I didn't cut the amount of food I ate for the entire journey, and if anything, I increased my daily caloric intake.  That said, when my body started fighting me a few months in, I ignored it initially, and then darned near passed out one morning when working in the barn.  "Enough is enough," I thought, "I need to eat more food."  

Long story short, I upped the amount of food I ate rather significantly, and yet I continued to lose weight at pretty much the same rate as before.

I told you the above to suggest this, be very careful with denying your body the food it needs to sustain your relatively high activity levels; I know a few distance runners (and have heard anecdotal stories of many more) who, in their quest to lose more weight, kept their intake too low and ended up developing heart issues, including, but not limited to, heart-attack and death.

[JohnRi]

I am watching my diet, blood pressure, my performance exercising, muscle grown, rep sizes and weight used for each set.  My biggest marker of fat %.  I'm watching that one extra careful.  And lean mass.  Those are the ones that telling me if I'm eating enough or not.  I won't be suprised if I end up eating 2600 to 3000 calories just to maintain the weight loss.  Expecting it actually. 

But I feel good, in fact I used to get dizzy when I didn't eat on time.  I'd get the shakes.  Get grumpy...  I have none of those issues anymore.  At this point I think my body has become the expect at burning fat.  I walked six miles Sunday, did an hour of weight lifting.  After I got about an hour of rest, I was ready for more. 

But I have my annual physical next week.  And probable echocartigraph after that to check up on my heart.

[WendyB]

Thanks for the Article @Dominique

[shipo]

@JohnRi, cool, keep us posted.

[Ukase]

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@JohnRi wrote:

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But bottom line, losing weight is more art, than science.  Everyone is different.  And this article just shows how complicated weight loss is.  It's far more complicated than eat less, and exercise more. 

---

 I agree with you on one part: we are all different. And it is complicated. 

But, it IS science. And I want the folks that read on these forums to know that if they are exercising at a caloric deficit for too long (defined below as about a month), then your thyroid may down regulate your metabolism, making it even harder to lose fat. That's fact. In the excerpt below, Greenfield says it will, but since I know we're all different, I say it might. But, me, I'd have a day where I'm 500 over with 6 days where I'm 1000 under. Still losing over time. And let's be honest. With water weight, we'll never really know the difference anyway. 

But don't just take my word for it. Ben Greenfield is the podcast I listen to when I'm walking. 

Read more https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/2015/08/episode-328-full-transcript/

Here are some highlights for you busy folks: "The fact is there are multiple studies out there that show the combination of adequate protein, resistance training and a calorie deficit allow you to indeed burn fat and build muscle simultaneously." 

The last recommendation so that you don’t risk thyroid issues or the long term of potential down-regulation of your metabolism while doing something like resistance training with a calorie deficit, I would have at least one day per week or potentially depending on your level of physical activity, one meal per day that’s more of a refeed, either carbohydrate refeed or a calorie refeed.  So let’s say, let’s choose the calorie refeed – that’s gonna be the simplest example of how to do this from Monday thru Saturday, you would eat let’s say, 2500 calories if you know that you actually need 3000 calories.  You’d get adequate protein meaning you need to get at least 0.55 g of protein per lb. of body weight, okay? That’s the minimum amount of protein that you need to maintain muscles: 0.55g of protein per lb. of body weight.  And then on a Sunday, you would eat 3500 calories, right? An ad libitum calorie day to ensure that you don’t down regulate your metabolism because within about 4 weeks of consistent calorie deficits combined with physical activity, you’ll tend to see a down regulation of thyroid hormones.

[USAF-Larry]

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@JohnRi wrote:

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But bottom line, losing weight is more art, than science.  Everyone is different.  And this article just shows how complicated weight loss is.  It's far more complicated than eat less, and exercise more. 

This article just confirms what I already knew.  Out bodies don't play fair!  And neither does the companies that make the crap I USED to eat.

---

Good analysis and summary, John.  Keep us up to date on how your weight loss is going. It has been great so far!

[A_Lurker]

PN is one I've seen before, and they make a lot of sense.  Years ago I considered their coaching, but illness stopped me from signing up... then it was cost.  I'm back to the point where I could afford to likely sign up, but feel at this point I know (somewhat) what works for me.  I don't do cheat days, however, I have stopped dieting for a week (actually ended up being 10 days because I couldn't start eating enough).  I call it a maintenance week and I do my best to eat all my calories back.  I managed to do this for 7 of the 10 days and didn't gain anything.  Of course, I didn't use this as an excuse to eat pure crap.  Mainly I just added higher fat, and a few more carbs.

So, roughly 16 weeks from the first time I'll do it again.  The plan is to try and keep my calories as high as possible, since I likely have still more than 150 pounds to go.  I know if I drop them too soon I'm doomed.  Having said all that, regardless of how I'm eating, I'm am genuinely hungry most of the time.  I'm not bored, I'm not thirsty, and it's not emotional eating.  I feel that my ghrelin and leptin levels have been screwed up since I was a child.  My parents didn't encourage snacks, we had decent meals.  Fairly balanced and such, however, I was always hungry.  I also recognize, no matter how far I go, I will struggle with this probably forever.

[Dominique]

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@A_Lurker wrote:

PN is one I've seen before, and they make a lot of sense.

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One of the best piece of information on fat loss I came across (more than three years ago, when I started with Fitbit) is the following series of five videos by John Berardi (founder/boss of Precision Nutrition):

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/course-for-women-day-1

You can replace "women" with "men", it doesn’t matter, the course is "gender-neutral". Replace "1", with "2", "3", "4" and "5" to have the complete course.

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@A_Lurker wrote:

Years ago I considered their coaching, but illness stopped me from signing up... then it was cost.

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 Yes, they are expensive (about $180 per month, for an entire year). Interestingly enough, the last segment of the course gives an advice I haven’t followed myself: getting coaching will increase your chance of success with fat loss. I agree it’s true, but I prefer to do things on my own (even though it means going through trial and error). Funnily, on the French Fitbit site, a Fitbit isn’t a "tracker" (as on the English site), but "coach électronique" (electronic coach). I think it’s a quite appropriate name, and my Fitbit has definitely served as a coach for me.

[FitBeforeFifty]

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@Ukase wrote:

 I agree with you on one part: we are all different. And it is complicated. 

But, it IS science. And I want the folks that read on these forums to know that if they are exercising at a caloric deficit for too long (defined below as about a month), then your thyroid may down regulate your metabolism, making it even harder to lose fat. That's fact. In the excerpt below, Greenfield says it will, but since I know we're all different, I say it might. But, me, I'd have a day where I'm 500 over with 6 days where I'm 1000 under. Still losing over time. And let's be honest. With water weight, we'll never really know the difference anyway. 

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I agree with @Ukase, all of the concepts you guys have been discussing are in fact reasonably understood by people who study metabolism and weight loss. The general public, however, aren't aware. Even personal trainers and "nutritionists" are clueless on the subject of adaptive thermogenesis, leptin response, meal timing (the 5 small meal myth) etc... and continue to spread misinformation. I'm not saying the scientific community has a 100% certain model but many of the things we consider "depends on the individual" or "Art" are explainable when you consider more than just food calories. For example, there has been some very promising work on development of a computer model that predicts metabolic adaptation taking into consideration a lot more variables than food and BMR:

"Briefly, the model comprises eight ordinary differential equations and uses dietary carbohydrate, fat, and protein as model inputs. The model computes the various components of whole body energy expenditure, rates of macronutrient oxidation, respiratory exchange, lipogenesis, ketogenesis, gluconeogenesis, and turnover of fat, glycogen, and protein. Based on the computed macronutrient imbalances, along with sodium imbalances impacting extracellular fluid, the model computes dynamic changes of BW and composition."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2838532/

Cheat meals

I do believe there is benefit in eating over your TDEE once or twice per week, just like @Ukase describes, as long as you maintain your target caloric deficit for the week as a whole. This is known as calorie cycling and/or reverse dieting and many believe that it mitigates adaptive thermogenesis. There really haven't been sufficient study of this technique to be conclusive but it's one of the protocols studies and used by sports nutritionist: 

Metabolic adaptation to weight loss: implications for the athlete

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3943438/

I don't believe, however, that a cheat day where you eat whatever you want is beneficial. The difference is in the two approaches is one takes into consideration a weekly calorie budget and the other can cause a complete erasure of you deficit.

The app I used to track food and exercise while getting to my goal weight a few years ago shows both a daily and weekly budget. I was usually under my budget by 200 - 300 calories during the week leaving me with 1000 calories to spare on the weekend. I would generally eat over budget on the weekend and often over my TDEE but the net result was on target for the week and my weight loss was linear throughout.