Low Carb vs Low Fat?

[Knowledge]

I know this topic is discussed frequently on this board. And there's a lot of science behind both. I thought this lecture was enlightening, and it will help explain why those of us who are on a low-carb diet do so well. If you're open minded you will appreciate the topic. (Oh and the first 7 minutes are kind of non-related so I would skip those)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL5-9ZxamXc

[HelenaFitbit]

 Thank you very much for the video @Knowledge! It has definitely given me a lot to think about 

[SunsetRunner]

High Fat, low Complex Carbohydrate diets are dangerous to your physical and cardiovascular health.

High Fat, high Protein diets (such as Atkins) can cause rapid weight loss, but also health problems.

High Complex Carbohydrate, moderate Protein, low Fat nutrition will provide optimum health, and this

has been proved in numerous scientific studies. It's also the optimum nutrition for aerobic athletes.

One effective nutritional program is the Pritikin Diet. See the "Pritikin Promise" (cheap on Amazon).

No, there will be no further discussion with the fans (short for "fanatics") of various fad diets.

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=atkins+diet

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=diets

[Knowledge]

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@yarddog wrote:

High Fat, low Complex Carbohydrate diets are dangerous to your physical and cardiovascular health.

High Fat, high Protein diets (such as Atkins) can cause rapid weight loss, but also health problems.

High Complex Carbohydrate, moderate Protein, low Fat nutrition will provide optimum health, and this

has been proved in numerous scientific studies. It's also the optimum nutrition for aerobic athletes.

One effective nutritional program is the Pritikin Diet. See the "Pritikin Promise" (cheap on Amazon).

No, there will be no further discussion with the fans (short for "fanatics") of various fad diets.

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=atkins+diet

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=diets

---

Have you actually watched the video? It is a lecture given by a Doctor in Sports Medicine and in it he explains how for athletes a low-carb diet is advantageous to a low-fat diet (outside of weight loss purposes). Here we go again with you spewing these myths...

Quackwatch.com is not a reputable site so if you coud please stop citing it as your "source"

[SunsetRunner]

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@Knowledge wrote:

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@yarddog wrote:

High Fat, low Complex Carbohydrate diets are dangerous to your physical and cardiovascular health.

High Fat, high Protein diets (such as Atkins) can cause rapid weight loss, but also health problems.

High Complex Carbohydrate, moderate Protein, low Fat nutrition will provide optimum health, and this

has been proved in numerous scientific studies. It's also the optimum nutrition for aerobic athletes.

One effective nutritional program is the Pritikin Diet. See the "Pritikin Promise" (cheap on Amazon).

No, there will be no further discussion with the fans (short for "fanatics") of various fad diets.

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=atkins+diet

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=diets

---

Have you actually watched the video? It is a lecture given by a Doctor in Sports Medicine and in it he explains how for athletes a low-carb diet is advantageous to a low-fat diet (outside of weight loss purposes). Here we go again with you spewing these myths...

Quackwatch.com is not a reputable site so if you coud please stop citing it as your "source"

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Some more facts about Atkins:

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-examining-dr-atkins-deathupdated.html

http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp

[Knowledge]

The video has nothing to do with Atkins and is about a general low carb diet. And I don't see how Atkins' death is related there are so many other factors in life that cause cardiovascular diseasE. Please use legitimate arguments because the nurses public health study published a few years ago associated high carb intake with decreased mortality and low carb intake with increased mortality and it was over a period of several decades of following patients.

[Knowledge]

Please see: http://archive.sph.harvard.edu/press-releases/2006-releases/press11082006.html

[SunsetRunner]

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@Knowledge wrote:
Please see: http://archive.sph.harvard.edu/press-releases/2006-releases/press11082006.html

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Stated in the provided link:

“This study doesn’t mean that you should load your plate with steak and bacon,” said Hu. “One likely explanation that we did not see increased risk of CHD with low-carbohydrate diets is that the adverse effects of animal products might be counterbalanced by reducing refined carbohydrates.

[SunsetRunner]

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@Knowledge wrote:
Please see: http://archive.sph.harvard.edu/press-releases/2006-releases/press11082006.html

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So, your height, is what? weight a year ago and now, is what?, your blood pressure reading, is what?

Just wondering how this carnivorous obsession is going for you.

[Knowledge]

Agreed and plus bacon has nitrates which Dr Atkins has said are best to avoid but ok in moderation. I eat mostly fish but do eat occasional red meat and of course poultry.

I have been doing low carb since beginning of January and in the 12 weeks I have lost 15% body fat and 58 lbs. Started at 306 lbs with 45% BF and am now 248 lbs with 30% BF. I am 5' 10" and my blood pressure was 119 over 75 and now hovers at 108 over 68 (I was never hypertensive to begin with).

My recent lipid panel from a few weeks ago:

BEFORE:
Triglycerides: 123
HDL: 36
LDL: 143
After:
Triglycerides: 79
HDL: 68
LDL: 88

[Knowledge]

Check this out and you will see the trend of how a low carb diet does in fact improve lipid panels:

http://eatingacademy.com/how-low-carb-diet-reduced-my-risk-of-heart-disease

Problem is most of us are using outdated cholesterol tests. What we need is the particle test because the particle size of LDL and HDL are a lot more important than their whole number. Low carb diets have been shown to decrease LDL-C small particles which are the type of LDL associated with heart disease and plaque.

I am hoping to get an NMR particle test done soon with my doctor but I will have to pay out of pocket because insurance doesn't cover it

[SunsetRunner]

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@Knowledge wrote:
Agreed and plus bacon has nitrates which Dr Atkins has said are best to avoid but ok in moderation. I eat mostly fish but do eat occasional red meat and of course poultry.

I have been doing low carb since beginning of January and in the 12 weeks I have lost 15% body fat and 58 lbs. Started at 306 lbs with 45% BF and am now 248 lbs with 30% BF. I am 5' 10" and my blood pressure was 119 over 75 and now hovers at 108 over 68 (I was never hypertensive to begin with).

My recent lipid panel from a few weeks ago:

BEFORE:
Triglycerides: 123
HDL: 36
LDL: 143
After:
Triglycerides: 79
HDL: 68
LDL: 88

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So, one thing we should get straight, is that when you say "low carb.", there are different kinds of

"carbs.". There are simple carbs. (like refined sugar) and complex carbs (like unrefined grains and

vegetables and fruit). The simple carbs. and animal fats, are like drugs and the complex carbs. with

a minimal amount of animal source protein, is what's needed for maximum human nutrition/health.

At 5'-10" a normal weight would be somewhere around 168 lb. to 180 lb. The weight loss of about

4.8 lb./wk. is excessive, and should be done under a doctor's supervision, and blood pressure is on

the low side, but that's up to you and your doctor. It's the long term that can cause health problems.

High cholesterol (bad kind, by whatever technique), is a concern with high animal protein and fat.

At 6'-0" my weight was once 240 lb., and over the course of 3 yrs. it ranges between 160 lb. and

172 lb., depending on how intensive the athletic training is. With a high complex carbohydrate diet

and a small amount of animal protien, the change was from obese to competively athletic, and the

performance of 5km. and 10km. running races at (predominantly) 1st., 2nd. or 3rd. place finish.

What you appear to be doing (nutrition wise) is certainly your prerogative.

Let's end it there ...

[Knowledge]

Agreed. But the term "low-carb" is wide ranging so its not fair for you to criticize a low-carb diet based on the notion of complex vs simple carbs. Many of us eat complex carbs on a low carb diet (fruits, veggies, and unrefined grains). Even Atkins allows these complex carbs (which is a more restrictive low-carb diet). In fact even 150 grams of carbs a day is considered low-carb for many. But at the end of the day the reason complex carbs are good for you is because of the fiber. This is why fruit is good but fruit juice is bad. When you take the fiber out of the equation your insulin spikes and wreaks havoc on your metabolism. I think you have a perception that low-carb is just red-meat and cheese and nothing else, and while that is true for some people, the vast majority of low-carbers I would say eat complex carbs in moderation.

[Knowledge]

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@yarddog wrote:

At 5'-10" a normal weight would be somewhere around 168 lb. to 180 lb. The weight loss of about

4.8 lb./wk. is excessive, and should be done under a doctor's supervision, and blood pressure is on

the low side, but that's up to you and your doctor. It's the long term that can cause health problems.

High cholesterol (bad kind, by whatever technique), is a concern with high animal protein and fat.

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Also as for height and weight that is BMI. While good indicator for some it isn't for others that strength train. My LBM is roughly 171 lbs. So at 180 I would be roughly 5% BF and I would be dead at 168 lbs. My target weight is around 193 lbs with a BF of 10% as I think that is a healthy range. Obviously I am dieting but I am changing my lifestyle as well, no more added sugar and refined carbs is my life-long goal and hope to not gain my weight back. Also my weight loss has been under supervision of my doctor and he is completely fine with it as I am not doing anything extreme (eating until full, working out 45 minutes 3-5x a week). Each body is different and since I am not losing muscle mass my doctor says to proceed with what I've been doing.

Congrats on your success. I think we should spend less time arguing and more time focused on the positives. Obviously excess of anything is bad, but I don't think its fair to assume low-carb means only red-meat and nothing else. We all know excess red-meat has been linked with a lot of diseases.

[_daniel_]

Great lecture! Thank you Knowledge. Until recently I was pretty biased against low carb diets, but the more I learn, the more I understand the merits of it.  

[SunsetRunner]

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@_daniel_ wrote:

Great lecture! Thank you Knowledge. Until recently I was pretty biased against low carb diets, but the more I learn, the more I understand the merits of it.  

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You should remain biased against it, as it has few merits. It is characterized by initial rapid weight loss

and then weight stabilization at a level well above where it should be. @Knowledge has provided himself

as an example of this. There are also serious physical problems that may also result. Ask your doctor.

[Knowledge]

I haven't stabilized my weight. Since my last post I have dropped 2.5 more lbs currently at 246.5 for a total of 59.5 lbs lost. Have no idea where you got about weight stabilizing above normal. Many body builders successfully maintain their body fat at 6-7% with a low carb diet. In fact it tends to be the diet of choice for body builders

[SunsetRunner]

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@Knowledge wrote:
I haven't stabilized my weight. Since my last post I have dropped 2.5 more lbs currently at 246.5 for a total of 59.5 lbs lost. Have no idea where you got about weight stabilizing above normal. Many body builders successfully maintain their body fat at 6-7% with a lowcarb diet. In fact it tends to be the diet of choice for body builders

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When I was younger, I was a serious bodybuilder, and was eating mostly complex carbohydrates.

I'm well aware of the mistaken notion some bodybuilders have about this. You eat what you want.

[Knowledge]

You can body build on a low carb or high carb diet because your body can use carbs for energy. However a ketogenic diet allows one to use fat for muscle use and if you watched the lecture I posted you will see that for marathon runners a low carb diet actually provides more energy than a high carb diet for both workouts and endurance athletes. My point was that there is no weight stabilization on a low carb diet I wasn't trying to say you can't body build on a high carb diet.everyone is familiar with carb loading but it's outdated.

Looks to me like you grew up in the 60s when the vegetable lobby convinced us that saturated fat was evil and we all had to switch to vegetable oil. Well follow the money and you'll see how flawed their arguments were and none was based on science. In fact the fda is Now considering removing the dietary recommendations for limiting cholesterol and saturated fat intake as they have no link with heart disease.

Vegetable oils are causing an over indulgence in omega 6s which are literally killing us as it puts our omega 3 balance out of control and induces inflammation of our arteries which results in heart disease (especially when paired with a diet high in sugar).

Please educate yourself the medical literature in the last decade has vastly changed and only those who are open minded will benefit. Others will continue suffering sadly until our lobbyists give up and allow our federal agencies to adopt these changes.

Obesity is a direct result of our low fat mantra and fat scaring during the last 50 years

[Knowledge]

Another evidence as to why low carb is actually better for body builders:

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/9