Marathon training and weight loss - are they incompatible?

[Serena1989]

First time poster here, I've tried to find a discussion already on the topic but couldn't.

For a bit of background: I'm 25, female, 5'9'' and 135 lbs. I've started my weight loss when I got my fitbit in March from a starting weight of 159 lbs - which is the result of a couple of years of weight gain due to general life **ahem**ness + moving to another country and starting an office job after Uni + objectively eating too much. 

My goal weight or better range is 120 - 125 because that's the weight I've been my whole adult life before these last 2 years. 

As for the running, I've run for about 9 years, starting very casually and building up to completing a handful of half marathons (both before and after my weight gain). Having a fitbit to know how much I burn and finally getting the hang of writing down precisely what I eat helped me lose weight and during these time I've kept running more for fitness rather than following a training plan of any sort.

Now I'd like to start training for my first marathon but at the same time I still want to lose the last 10-15 lbs to get to my normal weight. I've never watched what I ate too closely during a training programme and I don't want to eat too little and stress my body out too much, underperform or get injured. Do you have any advice? Or should I just be patient (ah ah) and go for only one goal at the time?

Current intake is 1700-1800 a day with a 1000 cal deficit. Is that too much deficit? If so, any suggestions on increasing calories without taking too much space as I'm already stuffed as it is at the end of the day?

I also run 10km (6.2 miles) 5 days a week and walk 1 hour and a half everyday pretty much.

If you have any suggestions/experience on training while losing weight it'd be greatly appreciated 🙂

[SunsetRunner]

An "athletic weight" for females is 3.5 x height (in inches) less 108. For your height, that's 133.5 lb.

So it seems that you are already about the right weight. I have done a lot of competitive running, and

it seems that (if you eat nutritiously) you will eat when you are in need of it, and the body weight will

be what it wants to be (based on lean muscle mass and percent body fat and exercise intensity).

The 1,000 calorie deficit seems quite high for someone at your weight and exercise level.

[jwis86]

I agree that the 1,000 deficit is a bit high.

I have trained for multiple marathons and have lost weight each time I have done it.  During off training time I generally hover around the upper 170's lower 180's.  Peak marathon training (>50mpw) I am in the upper 160's lower 170's. 

You need to fuel your body while training.  I still tracked my caloric intake using MFP.  I shoot for about a 500 calorie defecit.  I find it more sustainable.

[Serena1989]

I say 120-125 because that's my normal weight I kept without really trying before. I should say my family tends to be quite naturally lean and I have a very small frame.

As for the deficit I completely agree but I find it already very difficult to get to 1800, if I eat when I'm in need of it I hardly get 1600 and I'm often not that hungry after workouts. Shall I eat even when not hungry just to bump up the calories? Any suggestions on adding more calories without adding too much volume?

Thanks 🙂

[jwis86]

Peanut butter! 

It's what I use.  I often make a protein smoothie if I am trying to up my calories.  2 scoops of protein powder, 1 serving of PB can easily be 350 calories.  It tastes amazing too (at least I think so). 

Otherwise add in things like avocado, other nut butters, or nuts themselves. 

I know I could drop the weight faster, but like you said at the sacrifice of gains made during training.

Good luck on your marathon training!  Which one are you doing?  My last one was the Fargo Marathon. 

[Serena1989]

Thanks, smoothies is a good option especially now that it's hot and my appettite has been an all time low.

Probably the Florence marathon in Italy at the end of November - I'm so excited to start training!

[Raviv]

Too much of a calorie deficit, and (too be quite honest - sorry!) I don't see why you would want to lose any more weight.  If you want to keep your weight steady while adding on muscle (and losing fat in the process), I could see that.  But I don't think your body is going to like having so little to work with if you get down to 125 and are running marathons.

I was that weight naturally when I was a very lean teenager and 5'6".  I'm also small boned.  You know that whole thing about grabbing your wrist and your middle finger might touch your thumb?  I can do that will all 4 fingers, even my pinky.  So... yeah, small frame.  But I had zero muscle back then too.  When I became an athlete the next year, I packed on about 10 pounds of muscle and it was a lot healthier.

What would your bodyfat percentage look like at 125?  If you're going to be engaging in any kind of endurance sports, you don't want that super low or you'll mess up your hormones (temporarily) and likely burn out eventually.  

I'm trying to remember where I read it - sometime this week, and now I can't remember - about how women are really making serious headway in the ultra competitions, like 100 mile or so.  As the mileage goes up, the gap between men's and women's times gets smaller and smaller.  And one of the reasons why is because women have more bodyfat, and those long distances draw on the fat stores.

[Serena1989]

While I agree on the calorie deficit - I've done better yesterday thanks to fruit smoothies and a larger portion of pasta - I already said that my normal weight range is 55-57 kg (120-125 lbs) so I don't know what to add to this.

I just checked and BMI is still healthy at 57kg for my height. I don't know about bodyfat percentage as I don't know how to measure it. Also, I've looked it up and there are plenty of examples of female marathoners in that BMI range, Paula Radcliffe off the top of my head.

I don't know where you are from but it's a pretty normal weight to be here in Italy and in the UK as well (I'm half Italian half British) so we might also have different perceptions of what's usual weight-wise 🙂

[Heybales]

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@Serena1989 wrote:

I say 120-125 because that's my normal weight I kept without really trying before. I should say my family tends to be quite naturally lean and I have a very small frame.

As for the deficit I completely agree but I find it already very difficult to get to 1800, if I eat when I'm in need of it I hardly get 1600 and I'm often not that hungry after workouts. Shall I eat even when not hungry just to bump up the calories? Any suggestions on adding more calories without adding too much volume?

Thanks 🙂

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Yep - use your head - not your stomach.

Many reasons why it can fool you. Being dehydrated, eating the things that are volumuous but not dense for calories, ect.

Ever finished a big run and didn't eat, just drank water, because very hot run.

Maybe didn't even feel like eating - but you know you burned a lot out there.

And if you plan on running tomorrow - you better recover.

Suggest you get some liquid with calories for right after the run - that may help you be hungry later too.

Ensure, Boost, Equate normal formulas (they have high protein too), or Carnation breakfast mix with 2% milk - all have carb:protein ration of 4:1 - the recommended 30 min post cardio workout for max carb uptake in to the muscles, to allow tomorrows workout to be good. Since usually thirsty anyway, goes right down, and at 250 cal, decent amount of calories.

And usually with that update, body realizes it would like some more carbs please besides just the water it's missing.

That aspect can be helped too by confirming you are plenty hydrated prior to run, and on long runs having some water during it. 

And be aware your weight with endurance cardio and more stored glucose with attached water will be higher than in the state not doing that. So compare prior weights in the same state.

[Serena1989]

Thanks, this is all very helpful!

Indeed after a long run and a shower the temptation to just collapse on the sofa  because I wasn't hungry at all is very high 🙂

For recovery drinks, I'm not sure I can get my hands on any of those and in any case I had a look online and the ingredients are not something I'd like to put into my body - I'd prefer to make something myself.

I'd found a few recipes for chocolate milk - http://iambaker.net/best-homemade-chocolate-milk/ - if I make a massive jug with whole milk to keep in the fridge to drink as soon as I'm home will that be a good alternative?

[Heybales]

Sorry so late.

I'd suggest not whole milk - too much fat.

The whole point of the 4:1 ratio within 30 min was fast absorb and store in muscles. Extra fat will blow that.

2% would at least be better - with however much chocolate syrup you need to accomplish that 4:1.

And indeed, that was the other forgotten drink, and in my fridge is my 12 oz container with mark for milk and weight of syrup to do just that fast.

The other thing that can throw off the body is being close to heat stroke. But not even feeling thirsty, just weak.

In which case natural response there could be to gulp huge amounts of water, but again, in that state could actually cause eletrolyte problems, and even the chocolate milk with sodium and potassium would be better then.