Weight lifting activity level? confused? help!

[_Sophie_]

Hello!

I was wondering if you could give me some advice or share your experiences and opinions with me.

Now, firstly, I know everyone is different and therefore we all already have differing BMR's due to muscle mass and other influences.

im looking to shed the last few pounds of fat and gain some muscle mass. I used to lift heavy for 18 month and and stupidly swapped it to a very restricted diet where I lost 22 pounds (and my period!). I understand I can gain this muscle back quicker than the first time and I’m already witnessing results after a couple of weeks. 

My stats are:

I am 24, 5ft (and it ends at that!) 7 stone 7 pounds. I started at 8 stone 9.
My BMR is 1160.
My activity levels are then predicted as 1400 sedentary, 1600 mark for lightly active, 1800 for moderate and 2000 for very.

I seem to only really be able to lose weight if I go under 1200. This also makes me completely mad and I feel very, very unwell. I also seem to get extremely low blood sugar if I don't eat very regularly or don't ensure that I have a high intake of fat and protein every day.

I have just gotten back into weight lifting and have purchased a Fitbit flex 2. It's currently saying I am burning 1,900 calories just from walking 10,000 steps a day . This hasn't included my weight training which I can't seem to input on the app. When I am very, very sedentary, it says I remain at 1070 which is my BMR. I can't comprehend that my body is able to burn 2,000 calories or over a day just from walking 10,000 steps, let alone even more if I weight train. I also feel 1070 is incredibly low for sedentary calories. It feels these given numbers are both on the extreme levels.

So I was wondering a few things - what do my stats look like to your regarding my BMR and activity level? What are your experiences?
How did you work out your own TDEE's? And how did you add weight training to your activity level? If you have a fitbit, was this accurate for your activity level?

If you're a petite woman like me I would especially love to hear back from you as it is so hard to maintain weight with such a short body!!

Thanks xx

[Dominique]

Just because your Flex2 doesn’t autodetect weight lifting as an activity (no other Fitbit does either) and doesn’t allow you to record it as an activity (several Fitbit models do) doesn’t mean it considers you’re totally inactive during your weight lifting sessions. You can check this by having a look at the graph for calories burned during the day: you will probably see taller bars during your weight lifting session.

Now, weight lifting doesn’t necessarily burn that many calories at the weekly level, unless you’re doing something really intense (e.g. crossfit) for long enough (e.g. 1+ hour) and often enough (e.g. 4-5 times a week). If you’re doing 3 sessions x 45 minutes of more conventional stuff, the impact on total energy expenditure for the week won’t be that big. Which doesn’t mean there’s no point in doing conventional weight lifting, it’s just that its main purpose isn’t to burn calories. 

[Mukluk4]

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@_Sophie_ wrote:

and other influences.

My stats are:

I am 24, 5ft (and it ends at that!) 7 stone 7 pounds. I started at 8 stone 9.

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Ok, so what is your goal here?  You are sitting in the right range for H/W. 

[_Sophie_]

Hey,

Its to shed a few more pounds. Maybe get to 22% BF or less

and gain muscle mass. I understand I can’t do these at the same time.

however getting to 22% BF would require me to lower my calories to below 1200 which is basically impossible .it seems the last few pounds are massively hard to lose and I can also gain very very quickly. 

It is hard being having such a small window between your BMR and  TDEE!

[_Sophie_]

Hey, thanks for the response!

Now this confuses me as how can it track anything other than steps if a heart rate monitor is not included in the flex?

I do heavy lifting with short reps and 3 sets. Along with lighter days with higher reps.

I know this increases your BMR overall and burns energy for hours after the sessions.

But I don’t know where this would put me on my TDEE. the fact that I apparently burn 1900 on 10,000 steps honestly baffles me as I have always believed this made me lightly active putting me at 1,600 cal.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you

[Mukluk4]

It will be easier to hit your goal if you start to eat more than you burn with your current weight training and start a bulk/cut cycle.  I would stop focusing on the weight portion as that's not what you are after and focus on the BF% and lean vs. fat mass.  

[WavyDavey]

Hi @_Sophie_,

I feel the best way is to track your calories in. With food logging, you have calories in numbers that you can compare to what Fitbit is reporting for your calories burned.

The different forms of weight lifting have great differences in their calories burned. A bodybuilding style (high volume) will burn lots of calories. A powerlifting style with low reps and high intensity tends to not burn as much, as the heart rate spikes are relatively brief. It's more complicated than that, as the impact on the central nervous system with powerlifting is very high (which requires more calories than a heart rate monitor would show).

Either way, by logging the food for a few weeks, and comparing that to a weight scale, you'll see on which side of the fence your calories are. Then you can make an adjustment. I've had to add about 250 calories/day just to keep maintenance weight, as it seems fitbit underestimates the impact of my lifting by about that much.

[Dominique]

@_Sophie_: when did your 22 lbs weight loss take place, and how fast? Btw, according to the converter I used 8 st 9 is 121 lbs and 7 st 7 is 105 lbs, so the difference is 16 lbs. The reason I’m asking is your dieting history can affect your metabolism: if you recently lost a lot of weight very fast, your actual BMR (and thus TDEE) will be lower than the one predicted by standard equations, due to metabolic adaptation. In that light, I would say a TDEE of 1900 calories seems to be on the high side.

If you have dropped quite a bit of weight recently and since you’re likely quite thin (BMI: 20.5), now may not be the ideal time to try to lose even more. Do the opposite: create a moderate surplus and focus on rebuilding your metabolism and bringing back the muscle you lost. You can always cut back at some point if you feel you’re getting too fat. Btw, if/when eating at a surplus or a deficit, you may want to focus on hypertrophy training rather than strength (training focused on strength is best performed when eating at maintenance).

[_Sophie_]

Hey,
it is so shed a few more pounds. Maybe get to 22% BF. Or less.
and gain muscle mass. I understand I can’t do these at the same time.
however getting to 22% BF would require me to lower my calories to below 1200 which is basically impossible . Thanks seems the last few pounds are massively hard to lose . And I can also gain very very quickly.

[_Sophie_]

Thats interesting - how would I go about this? 

And again, it leaves me in the limbo of not really knowing what my TDEE is being the short arse that I am. 

The word bulk terrifies me!

im starting to think 1400 calories a day whilst weight training and walking is a bit too low....

[WavyDavey]

I would agree 1400 cals/day sounds too low, with regular weight training.What can happen in that situation is the body has to break down both fat and muscle for energy, which puts the weight training on a downward spiral. My coach says the most common mistake with strength/weight training is not eating enough calories. 

For me, the balance between calories in and out isn't as simple of math as it sounds. I find there is a certain amount and type exercise that produces the metabolic effects @Dominique was referring to. If I exercise less than that, my metabolism flattens and doesn't want to give up any fat. If I exercise too much (besides the recovery issue), then it becomes difficult to manage the increased appetite needed to sustain the increase in metabolism.

Basically, I believe we all have a sweet spot that our physical bodies likes to stay within that range. Trying to diet below that range can be difficult. So what's your range? I don't think anyone can tell you. With some experimenting, you'll find what your body needs to reach your weight and fitness goals.

[Dominique]

Not knowing your exact TDEE isn’t a problem IMO. If you log in your intake and weigh yourself regularly, you’ll be able to find out after a while. Let’s say your Fitbit tells you you’re burning 2000 calories in average, and your intake as logged by you is 1500. After four weeks, you’ve lost 2 pounds, although based on your calculated deficit (500 calories per day), you should have lost 4 pounds: you would deduce from that Fitbit is overestimating your TDEE by 250 calories. You can then adjust your activity so as to obtain higher calories burned (according to Fitbit), knowing the real TDEE will be lower (by xx % or number of calories).

If you want to lose some more fat, and you can’t really eat any less than the current amount, you need to increase your activity level. The "easiest" way to do it is by increasing your NEAT, which tends to subconsciously decrease when restricting calories. Fitbit provides a very good way to fight against this: just monitor your step count (good proxy for NEAT IMO) and make sure you’re moving enough each day. 10k steps may be a good goal for the general, sedentary population, but for someone already fit and lean like you who wants to become even leaner, it may have to be higher than that.

[_Sophie_]

Great, thanks!
My Fitbit definitely over estimates my steps which makes me question the calories it’s giving me too. Just shaking my arm added 10 steps.
NEAT is my tdee, correct?
So if my BMR is 1070 at 24, 5ft, 7 stone 9 pounds.
And sedentary which is <5000 steps is 1400 calories. 10,000 steps is 1800 calories which would apparently be ‘moderate activity’ considering that’s the amount of calories needed for that.
I’m aiming for over 10,000 steps a day but it does not help that my Fitbit is massively over estimating! Have you had this experience?
I don’t think I should go back to 1200 calories. I think it may have caused my period to go missing again. I think I need to stick to a minimum of 1400 on sedentary days and 1600+ on active days (When weight lifting).
What do you think?
It’s hard to weigh myself when I’m gaining muscle as the scale won’t be a reliable source for fat loss.
What is your opinion on having ‘feed’ days?
Thanks!

[Dominique]

First of all, let’s address the issue of step count "accuracy". I believe we should regard modern Fitbits less as "step counters", and more as activity and fitness trackers, since they do far more than simply count steps. Just because you managed to get 10 steps by moving your hands doesn’t mean the step count reported for the entire day is totally useless. It’s usually going to be a reasonably good indicator of your overall activity level for the day: on a 15k step day, you’ll definitely be more active than on a 5k step day, even if the 100% "accurate" counts would have been 12986 and 4155 steps, respectively. And just because the step count is "inaccurate" by a certain factor doesn’t mean calories burned will be inaccurate by the same factor. The calories estimate is not derived from steps with a standard multiplier. In a nutshell: consider steps and calories burned as rough indicators of your overall activity.

Sorry for not defining NEAT: non-exercise activity thermogenesis. It’s not the same as TDEE, but it’s part of it. It plays a very important role in weight loss, because restricting calories tends to bring it down without you realizing. You can counteract that with your Fitbit, by making sure you hit a certain step or calories goal each day. For instance, I know I need to get at least 15k steps and 2600 calories (on my Ionic, because my Alta HR always show more, but I use the Ionic as my reference) in order to lose fat at my current eating level. Although I lift weights five days a week, it only accounts for a limited amount of my energy expenditure requirements, so I need to make sure I move around enough during the rest of the day. Most of the time, I go out for a two-hour walk, but sometimes I may do things like clean the house, prepare food for the whole week etc. that keep me standing / moving.

As to nutrition (your question about "feed days"): you didn’t say much about the way your diet is structured, but you did mention in another post you must eat a lot of protein and fat, so I guess you must be eating some kind of low-carb diet. This would also be consistent with the low blood sugar you reported elsewhere. If this is indeed the context, I assume you want to do some kind of "carb cycling". Nutrient timing does play a role in body composition alteration and sport performance, but it’s relatively small (more on this here). While I think a low-carb diet certainly has benefits for people who carry a lot of fat (and are thus more likely to be insuline-resistant, or maybe pre-diabetic) as well as for normal weight people who are mostly sedentary (and thus don’t need much fuel for their low activity), I feel it’s not optimal for someone like you: as someone quite lean, physically active, engaging in resistance training and interested in improving body composition, you would definitely benefit from higher carbs, especially if timed around your workouts.