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Deep Sleep and How to Get More

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

 

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

 

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

 

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages). 

https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep

https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/ 

 

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

 

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended

 

They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

 

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind

 

Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

 

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

 Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

 

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep.

I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks.

- In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am)

- No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine).

- No talking about work/problems after 8:00

- Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! )

- No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom)

- Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window)

- Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

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481 REPLIES 481

Hi all,

 

I'm a 22yo working female. On an SSRI (Lexapro), but have no major other health issues. I've started to become concerned because my deep sleep statistics are far below the benchmark for women my age. On a normal night, I get between 25 minutes-1 hour of deep sleep. It's usually either too small of a percentage to show, or about 12% of my total sleep. My REM statistics are normal and I sleep 6-7 hours a night, 8-9 on weekends.

 

What could be causing this lack of deep sleep? Could I just be a lighter sleeper than most?

 

thanks for your help!! 

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Hi I'm in my 50s and only seem to get around 5 - 6 hrs sleep a night and only 11 - 13% showed as deep sleep but I had to get a new Fitbit charge 2 and now I appear to have no deep sleep at all! I'm not convinced it's really all that accurate so I wouldn't worry to much. If you feel fine when you wake up that's the main thing 👍

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Hi Dave,  I absolutely agree with you on the importance of deep sleep.  I wish I knew how to get more.  Some nights I get 30 to 40 minutes deep sleep and have very little energy all day and then boom....I'll have over and hour and a half and feel great and my endurance is greatly enhanced.  Good luck in your quest for a better nights sleep!

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I am averaging only about 1 hour of deep sleep a night and this concerns me. I would like to know an average for about 7 and a half hours sleep.

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I'm glad I clicked on this topic. The first night I used my Fitbit and tracked my sleep, I spent 10 minutes in Deep Sleep. The night before last, I spent 1 hour and 10 minutes in Deep Sleep. I spend most of my time in Light Sleep, followed by REM Sleep. It baffles me. But I'm glad I'm not alone. I think one of the things I need to start doing is disconnecting from electronic devices a few hours before bed. It's very difficult but I'll have to wean myself from them earlier and earlier each night. 

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I am with you in needing to disconnect from the electronics.  I'm not sure about how much deep sleep you actually need but my body tells me it is more that 30 - 40 minutes.  I feel ok if I get at least an hour but much less than that and I just feel tired all day.  I am going to try to go electronic free from 8:00 tonight and the next couple of nights and see if that helps.    I have been walking/jogging at 8:00 because it so hot here during the day.  I may have to start exercising at 6 am instead if the electronic fast doesn't work.  Good luck finding better sleep!

 

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I am also a night exerciser due to the heat. Although, I do exercise indoors on my treadmill and Total Gym, I do wait until I lower my A/C at night. I'm also very much a night owl! I'm not sure if I can exercise in the mornings. Really doubtful. Good luck with stepping away from the electronics at 8pm. I'm going to try to step away earlier from my laptop but I will have the tv on. In fact, I go to sleep with the television on. Bad idea but I can't really sleep without it. 

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There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube. 

I'm finding it hard to get my 8 hours sleep - averaging at about 6:40.  Getting 50-60 min deep sleep. 

They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc. 

Good luck!

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Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night.

 

Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well.

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

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I normally get less than 6 hours sleep a night.  The problem with working two jobs with one having you get up at 3:30 am four days a week.  My deep sleep on a good day is less than an hour.  My more common time is about 10-15 minutes.  I wake up constantly worried about not sleeping.  Crazy, trying to get more sleep.  Summer is the worst because it is light till 9 pm.  Can't get up and read when you are pushing sleep less than 6 to begin with.

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Thanks so much Dave, I downloaded the f lux on my mac!

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Thanks so much Dave for taking the time to share your great post.  I completely agree about the importance of deep sleep and have been researching trying  to figure out how to get more of it each night.  I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended and I'd like to shift things around to start doing that. My routine/habit has been  staying  up to late (past midnight.. closer to 1:00am) and  the light from using cell/laptop surely is not helping. 

It's of comfort to be able to communicate with others who are on the same page.  🙂   

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I *think* I might have solved the riddle of how to get more deep sleep. 

 

I have noticed that the more strenuous physical activity that I get, the more deep sleep that I get. 

 

One day I did a lot of gardening and that night I got almost an hour of deep sleep. It didn't register as "steps" because I was doing more bending than anything, but I did not meet the 10K step requirement. If I had, I might have been able to get more deep sleep. A couple of days ago, I got in my 10K steps and that night I got 1 hour and 9 minutes of deep sleep, which is the highest I have ever got since using my Fitbit Charge 2 (just got it about 3 weeks ago). 

 

So, I think that if we are able to get enough physical activity in AND get at least 10K steps in a day, we should be able to get more deep sleep. I'm starting to think that since we, as a society, move less than generations before us, that we are not getting enough deep sleep. Most of us have jobs where we are at the computer almost all day long (I'm one of them) and we do not get enough physical movement. It's VERY hard for me to get in 10K steps in a day. But if you read the community board about how to sneak in extra steps, it really does work (e.g. parking your car further away, taking stairs instead of elevator, etc.). 

 

Just thought I'd share my findings so far. 

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I meant to say I got 1 hour and 19 minutes of deep sleep. I couldn't go back and edit it. Anyway, that's the most deep sleep I've ever gotten while tracking it on Fitbit. I think it probably means move more, sleep better. And I think if you're moving more, then naturally you are not tied into electronics as much. I thought disconnecting from electronics was the key but not if you're going to just go sit somewhere else, like read a book. You need to move more. That's what I'm finding anyway. Would love to know if anyone else has discovered this with themselves. 

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@AllThatGlitters, that makes sense to me. We know that excessive mental stimulation can make getting to sleep more difficult. And that deep sleep tends to occur early in the sleep cycle.  As we all know, at the end of a day of vigorous activity, our bodies just fall into sleep. The mental component winds down, and our deep sleep is allowed to happen naturally. At least that's how I see it.

 

Tried an experiment with a sustained nap yesterday afternoon. 4 hour nap, 1 hour deep sleep, very little REM activity. Felt very refreshed.

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

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I have the Shawn Stevenson book at home but not read it yet, never have time for reading despite my best intentions.

 

I use an app called Calm that has sleep stories to help my drift off to sleep each night, also take ZMA to help me sleep. The main trouble I have is sharing a bed with someone who needs medication that makes them twitch and snore all night... I keep having to get up in the night to take myself into the spare room to try and get some sleep. The interrupted nights are hurting me. I feel better after reading this thread though, at least I know I'm not alone in my less than an hour of deep sleep each night.

Allie
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That's fantastic!!!! Absolutely awesome that you got an hour of deep sleep when taking a 4 hour nap! I'm sure you did feel refreshed! 

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 Alicat:  I wonder if getting one of those dual control mattresses would help? I forget what they're called but you can adjust one side of the mattress without disturbing the other side. 

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FWIW, I've read that antidepressants can stifle REM sleep (I took the stuff, not just Lexapro, but tried almost everything for 20 some years). But that's different. The lack of deep sleep is happening to me, too. I'm 50 and I sleep for an average of seven hours- if I get *any* deep sleep, I'm lucky. Last night it was only 11 minutes! With everything I'm reading about how lack of deep sleep can lead to dementia and how our bodies can't heal themselves properly without deep sleep, I'm letting the numbers kind of scare me . I thought it was hormones so I fixed that - I don't have sleep apnea, I'm  active and I live like a nun. I'm not really sure what's going on, should we not really trust this figure? I do feel exhausted when I wake up. Really kind of a mystery. I'll bet we're not alone...

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