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Deep Sleep and How to Get More

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

 

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

 

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

 

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages). 

https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep

https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/ 

 

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

 

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended

 

They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

 

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind

 

Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

 

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

 Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

 

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep.

I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks.

- In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am)

- No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine).

- No talking about work/problems after 8:00

- Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! )

- No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom)

- Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window)

- Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

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The main reason that I am now wearing a Charge 2 (since 12 days ago) and am seriously considering splashing the cash to get an Ionic is the amount of deep sleep I am (not) getting. I just thought I was a tired person, and that this wasn't a medical issue, however I have just been told it is. According to Fitbit I've averaged 1 hour and 3 mins of deep sleep a night. My consultant advises a minimum of 1.5 hours - 1.75 hours. Either Fitbit are underestimating the amount of deep sleep for everyone (on this forum) or there are many un-diagnosed cases of sleep apneoa (which is a problem that you don't even know that you have). Sleep apneao is dangerous as it prevents the body (and more importantly the vital organs) getting sufficient sleep (oxygen) to effectively recharge for the next day. This can lead to other medical problems and potentially to advice not to drive. This is no doubt why FitBit have added the SPO2 sensor to the Ionic, in the hope of raising the profile of this medical issue and improving peoples health. If you always yawn in the morning, suddenly feel too tired to read or study in the afternoon (and even drop off to sleep) or have maybe been told that you snore like a bandsaw / wake in the night with a sudden gasp for air (you will not remember this) then it's wise to undergo a professional sleep study.

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I'm not really sure how realistic it is for most adults to be getting a minimum of 1.5 hours of deep sleep every night, unless one is sleep deprived. From the research I've done, it sounds like that was the norm several decades ago, and even that was limited to young adults.

 

I have been intrigued by the article Fitbit cited for the number of normal awakenings a night, although there we're a limited number of participants. Supposedly, only those aged 20 and under actually got over an hour of deep sleep, but yet participants did not have any sleep complaints. My only guess is that their sleep efficiency was that high that they were rested after the deep sleep they got.

 

FWIW, since I last posted in this thread I have now had multiple nights with around 1.5-1.7 hours of deep sleep. Granted, I have been running some partial sleep deprivation. And I'm pretty sure I am a mouth breather while I sleep, so I think it's possible I have oxygen issues. But still, I would expect with that amount of deep sleep to feel fully refreshed for the whole day, which for most of those days was not the case. That has me questioning whether my issue is actually sleep related instead of something else.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the suggestion. Am listening to him at my desk at work. Liking it so far.

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Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep.

I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep.

It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

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I just got my FitBit and noticed that my deep sleep/REM is often punctuated by quick awakenings. I know this to be a sign of sleep apnea. If your sleep patterns are similar (and you're tired all the time) then I'd suggest seeing a doctor and getting a sleep study done.

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Hi I'm the same, moved up to 6-  6.5 hrs per night.  I was only managing 4 hrs before.  The increase on sleep has happened as stopped working over so much, found a tiny hobby, reduced bread, fat and sugar on Slimming world, inccrease active minutes, drink less water before bed, one coffee per day only.  I still need to get to 7 hrs aday before i look at deep sleep.  Reason is is that i sleep much much more on weekends.  I used to sleep longer on weekends until I increased weekday amount.  I find regular length sleep 7 days a week makes me more refreshed..it's happened a few times...and I didn't have lots deep sleep.  

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Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

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Good message Dave, Hello Community, 

 

New to this community and like it. However, my new Ionic was just replaced with a Flex 2 (had to purchase the i watch3 / gave ionic to wifa) to continue to track my sleep. Why doesn't my Flex 2 track the stages of sleep like the Ionic did? Is there an update coming that will enable this? Meaning, the sleep tracker results do not state 'rem' or 'deep' stages ... ahhh, help. Love this feature on the Ionic

 

Valued Sleeper, Dad of 2 kids with a wifa in FL 

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I have also read the book "Sleep Smarter" and there is a ton of good advice on getting better sleep. 

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@scottlowe930 wrote:

Good message Dave, Hello Community, 

 

New to this community and like it. However, my new Ionic was just replaced with a Flex 2 (had to purchase the i watch3 / gave ionic to wifa) to continue to track my sleep. Why doesn't my Flex 2 track the stages of sleep like the Ionic did? Is there an update coming that will enable this? Meaning, the sleep tracker results do not state 'rem' or 'deep' stages ... ahhh, help. Love this feature on the Ionic

 

Valued Sleeper, Dad of 2 kids with a wifa in FL 


I enjoy that feature also. To calculate the sleep stages like REM or deep, the tracker needs to know your heart rate during the night. So it will only work with trackers that have built-in heart rate monitoring, like the Ionic, Alta HR or Charge 2. 

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

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Sorry to ask a stupid question... but how do you see your sleep stages? (do you need a specific watch?)

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On the fitbits which log sleep you can go to the fitbit app on your phone
or computer and click on the sleep dashboard for more details. It will give
you the graph and breakdown for various times in each sleep level, as well
as the total.
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Although I've had a fitbit for a couple of years I only bought one with the heart monitor this week and I've been really surprised at how little deep sleep I am getting.  Last night and the night before I only had 16mins of deep sleep.  I'm not a very good sleep generally but had expected it to be longer than that!

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very interesting post. I haven' checked my records but i believe you may have something there. Thanks for checking and posting. I am of the same opinion.🙄

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Yeah I only get 1hr8 deep sleep average  and usually sleep for 7 hours

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I'm finding my deep sleep seems to have it's own rhythm. I'll go a few days with "low" deep sleep, then pick up a bunch. It may be that the body is always balancing and re-balancing. 

 

I always go by how I feel and perform in the gym. If those are fine, I don't stress out over the sleep stage data. If I start to get worried about it, I just stop checking the sleep logs for a few days and let nature run its course.

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

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I have been very interested on improving deep sleep as I don't feel refreshed in the morning but I am sleeping at night. Like you when I have tried researching the topic I really only find generic sleep tips most of which I practice but the quality of my sleep still doesn't seem great. 

 

For myself I find it is just important to work your mind as your body

In order for my brain to be able to turn off at night I have to perform mentally challenging tasks. I work in a factory which is super repetitive and unless I am learning how to make something new not all that mentally engaging. Some meditation videos help you get better sleep.

 

The other piece of the puzzle for me is more sensitive but I bet some users will relate. Trauma I think makes it harder to enter into deep sleep because of this unconscious need to remain vigilante and not be caught in such a vulnerable position. This is not easy to deal with or discuss but I do think it makes a huge difference. You have to feel safe/secure. In my case my trauma is from childhood and I am in a safe place now but I lived so long in a state of survival and panic that I am more sensitive to environmental factors. I would like to learn more about how trauma effects sleep.

 

I also think it has to do with light, time of year. I live in Sweden and during the summer I really have a hard time sleeping in general. So I think probably our cycles are a bit seasonal as well. I haven't had my fitbit for even a week so I can't analyze my date from a seasonal perspective but it would be interesting to see.

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Very interesting information. I hadn't considered brain function throughout the day. I will do some investigating with that in mind. Thamks


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
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I didn't mention here but in my other thread I think you need time to creatively or verbally express yourself too which sort of goes along with the mental stimulation aspect, going to bed emotionally constipated isn't very conducive to sleep because then you are going to have that stuff replaying over and over because you don't have your daily distractions to tune it out.

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