Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[LittlebrookLyn]

I do find it very hard to switch off mentally when I go to bed, so I'm sure that affects how little deep sleep I get.  I've actually been getting more deep sleep since I last posted, some nights I have been been getting over an hour and on the nights when I get very little it's always when my mind has been racing.  I like the term 'emotionally constipated' as I think it describes how probably a lot of us are!

[SunsetRunner]

I am glad to hear that 😃 I only have 4 days to go on so far and haven't gotten an hour of deep sleep yet. It is so hard to sleep when the mind is racing just to fall asleep even.

[LittlebrookLyn]

Although I felt like I had a really bad night's sleep last night when I checked my Fitbit this morning it says I had 1hr 38mins of deep sleep but it was right at the beginning of the night so maybe that's why I don't feel particularly refreshed today.

I'm going to swap Fitbits with my husband tonight as he has my old Alta, going to see how much deep sleep he gets!

[SunsetRunner]

I had a restless sleep last night I felt okay when I woke up but my energy levels dropped pretty quickly. I had circles under my eyes even though I technically got in 7 hrs and 46 minutes which is more than usual. I am just not getting the right ratios I guess. I am hoping tonight is better but my daughter is having a sleepover so I won't hold my breath!

What fitbit do you use now? I have a charge 2 and it is my first fitness watch so I still have a lot to learn about all the features. Do you know how to see what your heart rate is when you are sleeping?

[LittlebrookLyn]

I'm using the Fitbit Alta HR and it's the first one with a heart rate monitor on that I've bought, so have no idea how the other ones work.  Last night, according to my sleep log, I was awake for 41mins, had 1hr 17mins of REM sleep, 4hrs 13mins of light sleep and 1hr 55mins of deep sleep.  I am sure I was awake for longer than 41mins though!  When I look at my heart rate for the times I am in deep sleep it goes down to anything between 46 and 56.  My resting heart rate during the daytime, according to the Fitbit, is anything between 57 and 60, not really sure if it's accurate though.

When my husband wore my Fitbit his sleep was pretty similar to mine, I was expecting his REM sleep to be much more than mine as I take antidepressants and had read on here somewhere that they decrease the amount of time you are in REM sleep, so although mine is probably lower than it should be, so is my husbands!

[SunsetRunner]

We have similar heart rates I feel like mine is fairly accurate I have Charge 2 because I have been made to go around with an EKG for extended periods and also have had to wear heart rate straps and such when I had PE in college (which was a while ago granted but my heart rate doesn't seem to have changed really)

That isn't much REM at all. When my husband was on anti-depressants he had very vivid, very horrific nightmares but that was a symptom specific to that anti-depressant so I imagine the symptoms vary. I have loads of dreams, sometimes I dream so much I feel like I have been running marathons all night!

I had my best sleep last night

7 hours 14 minutes total (sometimes because I have a slow, rhythmic pulse fitbit thinks I am asleep when I am not particularly before bed because I unwind in the evening)

51 minutes awake

1 hour 26 minutes of REM

1 hour 10 minutes deep (the most deep I have had so far)

and the rest light

The night before I slept terribly so I am still recovering from that 

[alis0nm]

Hi Dave,

I am also very interested in deep sleep and realise that it's my lack of it that has caused me to feel tired all the time. For those people who say they ONLY get 1 hour a night, try living on 10 -30 minutes average a night.  That is what I get quite often.  I have been trying things to help.  No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep.   I am celebrating today as I got 1hr 12min last night and it's my all time high!  And I feel great today. Very alert and not tired for once.  I don't know where that came from but i'll take it.  

The benchmarks on my fitbit app, which shows the average sleep stage for sex and age show 1hr being on the high end and 40m on the low end.  (i'm female and 52).  Anyway, enjoy the deep sleep if you can get it!  Btw, my all time low is 7minute deep sleep!

[LT8853]

NIH recommendations are 25% of your sleep be REM and 20% be deep sleep. 

[LittlebrookLyn]

The problem with NIH recommendations is that all it tells us is what amount of REM and deep sleep we should be having, which isn't really very helpful if you are doing all the things suggested for getting a good night's sleep but not getting it.  We can all change things which we have control over, like choosing not to smoke, drink, get enough exercise, watch our weight etc but you can't force your body to get the right amount of sleep.  I prefer to just compare with the benchmark figures as I feel I can relate to those without worrying so much about not getting enough quality sleep.

[DThomson]

I'm in the same situation. For a couple of years, I only moved to the spare room as a last resort. My husband sleeps better when I'm there, and acted hurt when I left. What really helps me: moving to the spare room as early as possible, or starting the night there if I'm really exhausted. I like to crawl into bed with him, but most nights I leave within an hour. The more sleep I get in a separate room, the better I feel. Husband has gotten over his hurt feelings, mainly because for 20 years I was the person who couldn't handle morning conversation. (Don't talk to me for at least 30 minutes after I wake up, and dear God, don't ask me any questions!) Now, most days I'm fairly cheerful when I wake up. Good luck.

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@Alicat2104 wrote:

It's a memory foam mattress Dave 

I think my issue is mainly the noise / disruption caused by my bed-buddy... though over the last few days I've avoided taking any sleep supplements and actually feel more rested.

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[ShelaghG]

I've had a Charge2 for just over a week now, and didn't know it was possible to see what your heart rate is during the different sleep stages. I've pressed everything I can think of in the app and can't find it 😞

[LittlebrookLyn]

I have the FitBit Alta HR but I am assuming they all work the same, but I can tell you how I check mine!  There may be other easier ways of doing it, but I only know this way.  I open the dashboard on my phone and click on the heart icon, that will open the window and show you what your resting heart rate has been over the period of time you've been using it.  If you click on whichever day you want to check on you can open up the details for that day and then just tap the screen and you should get the heart rate across the screen, just tap on the graph and it should tell you what your heart rate was at any particular time, you can just scroll along to see what it has been through the night and I am guessing the lower readings are when you are in deep sleep.  Hope that explains it well enough.

[ShelaghG]

Thank you 🙂 Your explanation was excellent!

[LittlebrookLyn]

I'm glad you found it helpful.  It would be good if Fitbit actually integrated the heart rate in the sleep part of the app rather than having to switch from one part of the app to another, maybe one day they will!

[Eclectica]

@FitbitCommunity- product opportunity for you:

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind.

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

[Kstjshin]

My husband snores loud enough to wake the dead and his body is naturally hot so it’s difficult for me to fall asleep next to him. We also have very different methods of sleeping - he passes out in seconds to nothing at all whereas I need  calming noises to help me sleep. We’ve tried both ways but nothing worked for both of us. Yeah, we sleep in separate rooms now. Sleep is more important.

[Kstjshin]

I’m usually very good at getting 8 hours of sleep every night. Because of special sleeping arrangements I’m forced to keep a semi-strict schedule of going to bed at 9pm and then every day (including weekends) my alarm wakes me up at 6:30am. I won’t go into my whole sleep schedule thing but about 8 hours of sleep will only get me perhaps 50 minutes of deep sleep and most days this just doesn’t seem enough. My all-time low was 18 minutes of deep sleep. I used to get over an hour and I’m currently trying to figure out what I didn’t back then that got me so much more deep sleep. If I drop to 7-7.5 hours I’ll usually get somewhere in the 40-minute range of deep sleep. 40-45 minutes. I’m glad I clicked on this thread as people have had some good insights as well as being up front about how much deep sleep they’re getting as well. I’ve been wondering how much other people got.

[WavyDavey]

Thanks for sharing

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@Eclectica wrote:

@FitbitCommunity- product opportunity for you:

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind.

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

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Thanks for sharing this. Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves.

[1SallyJo12]

Thanks for posting the link for the video – great information.  What type of device can I get that produces the delta waves for deep sleep? 

[amirl]

Did you  mean 10 in the morning?