Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[GershonSurge]

@ForecasterJason,

Most black people are lactose intolerant. If you haven't already done so, I suggest eliminating all dairy products to help your gut problem.

It also aggravates asthma for many people. 

[ForecasterJason]

@GershonSurge Thanks for the suggestion. While I have not eliminated dairy completely, I do limit my intake, and mainly stick to low lactose dairy foods.

[DianaBreeze]

Hi all,

What a great thread! I came here for the same reason: how to get more deep sleep, but I think I can offer a few observations.

When I got my Ionic for Christmas, I had never had a Fitbit before, so I was thrilled to check out the sleep tracker. Unsurprisingly, to me, I was hitting all the benchmarks, so I stopped worrying about it and just stopped wearing my Fitbit to bed.

This last week, though, I’ve been getting enough sleep, but it’s all been light - barely any deep sleep - and I noticed it. I felt like crap in the morning. I was drinking extra coffee through the day. So if I’m going to bed at the same time and getting crappier sleep, what’s causing it?

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight.

[RichVargas]

That is an excellent observation. 

[RichVargas]

I couldn't agree more.

Rich V

[LittlebrookLyn]

I know a lot of people on here are male but one thing I have definitely noticed is the role that hormones play in regards to sleep.  I used to sleep really well before hitting the menopause, my head would hit the pillow and I'd sleep well all night long.  Even during times when I had more stress than I thought a person could ever handle, my sleep wasn't affected for long periods.

However since hitting the menopause at 47 I've not had one single night's uninterrupted sleep and I do think waking up lots of times throughout the night is bound to have an effect on our deep sleep and certainly in my case I feel that years of waking up loads of times during the night has developed into a habit of bad sleep.

It doesn't matter how much exercise I do, what time I stop drinking tea or watching TV, my sleep is always pretty rubbish compared to how it used to be.

[ForecasterJason]

I would agree. I have to say, even prior to getting my first Fitbit years ago, what I would consider my most restful nights of sleep generally followed days when I was more mentally relaxed than normal.

[WavyDavey]

@LittlebrookLyn, lack of deep sleep definitely affects hormones for both women and men.

[SunsetRunner]

This thread is amazing, thank you everyone for everything you've shared. I asked Father Christmas for a FitBit as I was permanently exhausted yet had no problem falling asleep and didn't notice any night waking. I think it's deep sleep - I'm getting about 6-9% a night. I've googled deep sleep extensively and this thread is by far the best advice out there! If it helps, I gathered a bunch of your tips into one place, to take home and think about. Here's hoping for some good sleep!

Things to read/watch

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[mnigito]

Wow! You really did your homework. I appreciate the extensive resources and have reviewed many of them. But whatever information anyone chooses to embrace, bottom line is making a conscious effort to sleep more fully.  It may take a bit of time, but it is worth the effort.  To not always feel groggy by 2:00 is a blessing.  Better sleep equals more energy and better physical and mental health. 
Mnigito

[eithnesummers]

If you are really interested in buying one of those - wait for the home show in your area to be over. I bought mine from sleep country when they brought in extra for the home show and didn’t sell them. It was about 1/2 price. Just a thought.

[sagersjs]

WOW!!!  Thank you so very much KateJB for taking the time to share your research.  What a wealth of information and resources- all here in one place. I often listen to Terry Gross on Fresh Air, but missed the interview that you mentioned with Matthew Walker.  Good to know about him and also Shawn Stevenson.

I too, was thinking that there hasn't been much mentioned in this thread about the role of nutrition and gut health on deep sleep, or for sleep in general for that matter. I'd love to read of others experiences in this area.

This thread is truly amazing!  I've learned so much here.  Thank you everyone.

[SunsetRunner]

Really not my work, honestly, I just scooped up everything the community had offered! Tried some of it last night - wrote a quick 'worry list' at bedtime, did a nice meditation app in the evening, no tech after 9pm - and I got 13% deep sleep. Might be because I was just plain tired (7% the night before) but I'll keep going and see if it happens again!

[Sharbar1]

Great info- thanks!!

[Gillylandhair]

I have very low deep sleep every night. Sometimes only ten minutes. I also sleepwalk. I wonder if that does make a difference? 

[RowdyRiley]

While I think exercise is probably correlated, yesterday I got 12K steps and I cycled over 8 miles in spin class for the first time in many many months. And yet, 11 mins deep sleep. We typically watch TV in bed before sleep, and I go to sleep around 1030, but last night we conked out at 1020 with no TV. I'm wondering if the electronics are the impact. Either the blue light, or magnetic field, or....

Also wondering if diet is part of the issue.

[Gillylandhair]

That may be it. It doesn’t make any difference how active I am during the day. I hiked 26 miles one day and only recorders 20 minutes deep sleep but when I couldn’t exercise after a walking accident I clocked up over an hour deep sleep for the first time ever! 🙂 I often use a Kindle to read in bed before lights out. Maybe that is an issue. Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone

[Moneylogue]

I may have to set this goal of 10k steps/day. Currently, I'm between 6-8k and not getting the deep sleep level that I know my body needs. Based on my own observations, I need at least 55 minutes of deep sleep. In fact, yesterday, I only slept for 4 hours and 35 mins but with 54 minutes of DS and it felt good and productive all day. Today, I noticed that I only had DS of 25 minutes but slept for more than 6 hours and still feel a little tired. I'm new here and just had the Fitbit last December as a gift. Loving it!

[WavyDavey]

---

@Gillylandhairwrote:

I have very low deep sleep every night. Sometimes only ten minutes. I also sleepwalk. I wonder if that does make a difference? 

---

I would be surprised if it wasn't making a difference. We have to be unconscious to be in deep sleep. Sleepwalking sounds more like a dreaming state of mind, as far activity level.

As an update, the ZMA supplement I posted about above seems to be working with my deep sleep. I'm not seeing a big increase in deep sleep, however the deep sleep I am getting now is in larger chunks and not so broken up. Apparently, magnesium deficiency can cause problems with deep sleep.

[Gillylandhair]

I often sleepwalk/talk about an hour after falling asleep. I know this as it often wakes me up. I think that is when I am meant to be starting or being in deep sleep. It is very interesting.

Sent from my iPhone