Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[shippee]

I am not a sleep expert, but from a recent reading of "Primer of Polysomnogram Interpretation" I would gather that were you to sleep 7 hours per night - "It depends":

We all have different needs.

Last night I slept 6 hours 

SLEEP STAGES

19x Awake -> 1 hrs 6 mins for 14% of my time in bed

REM 1 hrs 2 mins for 14% of my evening

Light 5 hrs 1 mins for 64%

Deep 38 mins for 8%

Fairly typical night, for what it's worth.  Plus I have given up E2OH and limit coffee to two cups early in a.m.

[WavyDavey]

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@Gillylandhairwrote:
I often sleepwalk/talk about an hour after falling asleep. I know this as it often wakes me up. I think that is when I am meant to be starting or being in deep sleep. It is very interesting.

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Yes, that first hour of sleep is so important I think for deep sleep.   Does your sleep chart ever show any deep sleep past the time when you sleepwalk? Sometimes when my deep sleep is disturbed, there will be smaller deep sleep patterns later in the night.

[ForecasterJason]

While it is true that the most deep sleep typically happens in the first sleep cycle due to the body's homeostatic sleep pressure, according to my Fitbit that is often not the case for me. For instance, this past Monday my largest deep sleep period came about 2.5 hours after falling asleep.

As a side note, I tried 60 minutes of Buteyko breathing for about a week and didn't see any difference. Granted, I may not have been doing it completely right. As of today I have just started using magnesium oil on my skin.

[SunsetRunner]

Although 77 I rarely miss my 16000 steps a day yet my deep sleep is lucky to be 15 mins or less I do listen to an audio book for a bit or I can’t get to sleep 

[Gillylandhair]

Wow! That’s impressive! Yes. I’m a great hiker and don’t believe that your deep sleep minutes are tied in with how much exercise you get.

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[Gillylandhair]

I just looked at my sleep from last night. I didn’t actually sleep walk last night but I was sat up in bed having a good sleep fight with nobody and it woke me up. I did then get a little deep sleep then I did a little sleep shouting and woke up again then got a little deep sleep again. Altogether I slept for six hours and got 30 minutes deep sleep. Am pretty tired today. 😁

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[Jerimennifer]

I know for myself that if I drink too much coffee, or have chocolate or diet Coke in the evening, my deep sleep really takes a hit. I also think when I sleep too much overall, I don't get as much deep sleep. I think I have to be more tired to get more deep sleep. 

[JenWood]

This is my first post on here so not sure if I’m posting in the general discussion or responding to a comment. However I have read this thread with great interest, and the one thing that works extremely well for my clients is practising sleep restriction. It has been mentioned here but it can be so effective. There’s a great book by Colin Espie called Overcoming Insomnia and Sleep Problems https://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Insomnia-Sleep-Problems-Behavioral/dp/1845290704/ref=nodl_

There is an associated online programme called Sleepio, and a similar one called Shuti. I have used Sleepio and found it very helpful. For the women on here, I also use a supplement called Femi Night which I get from Amazon, which helps me. 

[Gillylandhair]

Hi Jen, thanks for the information. Will definitely look into those apps. I have been reading up on somnambulism and it usually occurs in deep sleep. And rather unhelpful like it says you are more likely to sleep walk if tired, so is a nasty cycle.

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[MEESH88]

I get 20-30 minutes of deep sleep a night, and I can’t remember a single day in my life (I’m 29) where I’ve woken up actually feeling refreshed, regardless of how long I slept. I’ve tried every possible method to get better sleep, but nothing works. Interestingly, I’d consider myself a deep sleeper, despite not actually getting deep sleep, as I fall asleep easily and can sleep through basically anything. 

I’ve been tested for sleep apnea and ruled that out. I do, however, have a heart condition that causes frequent arrhythmias and elevated heart rate. My resting heart rate is around 75, and just standing up will cause it to jump up above 100. I’m wondering if the reason I don’t get deep sleep is because my heart rate can’t get low enough? According to my heart graphs it never drops below about 67 during sleep. 

I can’t take any medication to control my heart rate with my particular condition so I’m starting to think I’m just going to be stuck feeling perpetually exhausted for the rest of my life. 

[shippee]

There are several books published on sleeping better - perhaps worth a look?  Such as firming up going to sleep, waking up, getting rid of caffeine after lunch or earlier, cutting out ETOH to see if that helps, and others.

I have sleep apnea, have a machine, and feel like you do - quality is not what it should be.  Machine shows one thing, FibBit shows an entirely different thing, and I am left wondering about the differences - all to no avail.  

Everyone's mileage varies and you just need to find the structure and/or combination of diet/exercise that works for you individually.  Trial and error can be frustrating, but one has to keep working towards the best combination of the foregoing - it's a journey.

[vjgray]

I, too, would love to know how to get more deep sleep. I don’t ge enough sleep of any kind (about 6.5 hours a night) but my deep sleep is horrible. I only get about 20-40 minutes a night. I can really feel it. I am always tired and groggy. I’m beginning to realize the toll it is taking on my overall health. 😴

[twinmamma]

I'm glad I'm not the only one struggling with this. I've never had insomnia before, but the last couple months I've hit a rough patch in my sleep. Last night I got 4 minutes of deep sleep and the night before was 13 minutes...needless to say, I'm beyond exhausted. 

[eyeofthenile]

I have the same issue 

[SpottyHorse]

Sorry, I’ve no idea, I’ve never used them but the contra-indications on the leaflet may confirm they do.

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[Sue271]

Deep sleep and coffee

I have been tracking my sleep architecture and quality for two months now because I was persistently tired following a bout of bronchitis.  The bronchitis cleared but I became much more aware of how little deep sleep I was getting.  I charted deep sleep in relation to a number of factors: how many steps I got a day (10,000 steps or more or less), how much exercise (1/2 hour of jogging); whether I got blue light in the morning - direct sunlight; no blue light in the evening; food sources high in magnesium (bananas, chickpeas etcetera). I drink rarely, and then only wine - no more than 2 glasses in an evening. I take vitamin B12 every second day. There were changes but very erratic, no clear correlation - every 10 days or so I got 90 minutes of deep sleep and then it would vary -- sometimes only 8 minutes.  Then I decided to give up caffeine  -- my two latte's first thing in the morning (no other caffeine during the day).  My first week I did two latte's each with half caf; the second week (where I am now) I have one half caf and one full decaf; next week I will go to all decaf and after that may go no caf at all.  This has been the single most consistent influence on my deep sleep. I now consistently get one hour of deep sleep a night (regardless of steps, jogging, blue light et cetera).  If you are a coffee drinker and feel you are not getting enough deep sleep try gradually cutting back on caffeine.  Thanks Fitbit for enabling us to track deep sleep!

[RowdyRiley]

Thanks for the insight! Thing is I hardly ever drink coffee. I eat
chocolate, but in moderate amounts and usually early in the day if at all.
Is anyone else having any luck tying back deep sleep to anything? I'm
noticing that most of my weekly deep sleep is early in the week, sun-tues.
But having trouble finding any other correlations. I expected bedtime to
have an influence and at times it does but other times it does not appear
to be a factor.

[Sue271]

chocolate has caffeine in it as well -- maybe try giving that up for a while and see what happens

[Sue271]

You might consider the time of day that you exercise (and how intensely) I have read that working out intensely in the evening and too close to bedtime can disrupt sleep quality -- mornings is best.

[RichVargas]

You are right, I usually work out at 8pm. and go to bed around 10:30. I'll
try changing my schedule. Thank's.

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*Re/Max Masters*
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