Does anyone else have calorie burn issues?

[SunsetRunner]

I'm  coming to the community because FitBit Tech support is again useless to me.  (really though, I can't remember when they were actually helpful).

So here's my issue.

I get up every morning and take my dog for his morning walk.  Replete with numerous sniffing stops and morning business stops.  It's about a mile walk.  average heart rate (i've got a blaze) is about 85.  Calories burned say 85.

In the afternoon my wife and I take him on a 3.2 mile walk.  Total time 1.15 hours.  Average heart rate, 98.  Calories burned per fitbit 510.

After dinner I get on a tread mill.  Bad balance so I hold onto the bars.  But, I'm moving at 4 miles an hour.  Average heart rate 125, peaking at 132.  I go for 45 minutes.  3 miles in total distance.  Calories burned per FitBit is 285.  How in HECK is that possible.  I'm sweating really heavy, my heart rate is way higher than a walk with my dog, and it says I burned LESS calories.

I'd love for someone to help me with the science here.

[bbarrera]

@SunsetRunner You didn't mention step count, and I assume that on treadmill you are getting inaccurate (too low) step count. Also didn't mention if you are putting Blaze into exercise mode, or not. Fitbit is suppose to estimate calories from HR, but its also suppose to use GPS for walking mileage and we've seen examples where its estimating distance by multiplying step count by stride. Bottom line, it seems that Blaze can do surprising things at times when it doesn't detect steps (unless you are in a special mode like Cycling, where it understands there are few if any steps).

So without methodically testing to determine what its doing, below are my thoughts on your issue.

Blaze doesn't like to count steps on treadmill if hands are on bars. Sucks, because if it doesn't accurately  count steps then you are forced to choose between:

- swinging arms instead of holding onto bars

- improving step counting accuracy at the expense of HR

- improving HR accuracy at expense of step count

For better step counting accuracy try putting Blaze in pocket and let it estimate calories based on step count rather than HR. Be sure and turn HRM off before putting in pocket, otherwise your Blaze optical HRM may begin madly searching for your HR and pick up "steps per minute" as your HR. That will may or may not throw off calorie calculation as I detailed here:

https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Blaze/What-do-you-suppose-is-happening-with-my-Blaze-hrm/m-p/1561704/highlight/true#M30723

Unfortunately you can't have the best of both worlds, because Blaze doesn't support integration with gym equipment (to get HR from bars), and it doesn't support bluetooth arm bands or chest straps.

[SunsetRunner]

Thanks for a great reply.

Step count is tough on the treadmill.  My normal step count is between 2050 and 2100 per mile.  And so on the treadmill, I do enter Treadmill exercise on the Blaze.  But as you identify, since I hold on to the bars, it's awful at getting steps.  VERY good at heart rate though.  VERY good, in fact while on the treadmill, I keep the app open on my Surface 3, just to keep an eye on heart rate.  Trying to keep it in a cardio zone.  for me is above 116.

To try and compensate for steps, I wear my Zip as well.  It's awesome at steps, and never let's me down.  But.... my Surface, won't sync to the Blaze AND the Zip, at the same time.  Well after the exercise, the zip will sync and give me a reasonably accurate step count.  But calories burned, never get's updated.

To add more confusion to all this, I also wear an Alta.  On my right wrist and a Blaze on my Left wrist, and a Zip on my Hip.  And still, I get horrible information.

To me, I burn way more on the treadmill than on the dog walks.  But, FitBit doesn't give me the same results.  And because of that, I've given up on Calories burned as a metric.  And if burned isn't accurate, there is no point in logging food.  ANOTHER of my gripes, is that the food stuff doesn't populate on the app.  I MUST HAVE, protein, carb and fat.  THe app only gives me, Total calories.  For a diabetic, that is just NOT ENOUGH.  Yeah, its on the web, but WHY CAN"T it be ON THE APP.

If I now need to keep track of my food, blood sugar, and calories burned on my own.  I'm not even sure, WHY I keep FitBit.

[SunsetRunner]

so the added concern, is that when my wife and I go on that 3 mile dog walk.  It's around a county lake.  With mile markers.  Each loop SAYS it's 1.8 miles.  We do two loops.  The Blaze picks that up as 3.2 miles.  Not sure how that is accurate.  But, to be conservative (trained accountant) i just stated 3 miles.

[shipo]

Building on what @bbarrera wrote, I strongly suspect if you were to say, strap your Blaze around your ankle do your treadmill sessions would get a proper step count, the results from those sessions would be much closer to what you'd expect.

[SunsetRunner]

while i'm hopeful you are trying to be helpful, i don't imagine strapping the blaze to my ankle is a workable solution.

[bbarrera]

---

@SunsetRunner wrote:

Step count is tough on the treadmill.  My normal step count is between 2050 and 2100 per mile.  And so on the treadmill, I do enter Treadmill exercise on the Blaze.  But as you identify, since I hold on to the bars, it's awful at getting steps.  VERY good at heart rate though.  VERY good, in fact while on the treadmill, I keep the app open on my Surface 3, just to keep an eye on heart rate.  Trying to keep it in a cardio zone.  for me is above 116.

To try and compensate for steps, I wear my Zip as well.  It's awesome at steps, and never let's me down.  But.... my Surface, won't sync to the Blaze AND the Zip, at the same time.  Well after the exercise, the zip will sync and give me a reasonably accurate step count.  But calories burned, never get's updated.

To add more confusion to all this, I also wear an Alta.  On my right wrist and a Blaze on my Left wrist, and a Zip on my Hip.  And still, I get horrible information.

---

Ok, thats what I thought re: Blaze step count. Assuming your HR while on treadmill is higher than while walking (is it?), my initial conclusion is that if Blaze doesn't see steps then it overrides HR calorie count and uses a more conservative calorie estimate based on steps. However you complicated the analysis by mentioning the use of more than one tracker, sooooo, are your Blaze, Zip and Alta all on the same account? Sounds like it. Have you tried using treadmill with only the Blaze (leaving Zip and Alta at home)? If yes, same problem with calorie estimates?

If I were you, and sufficiently motivated, as an experiment I would setup all three on different accounts (3 email addresses) and then you could see which one is more accurate on treadmill. With your Surface 3 showing real-time HR its not like you need the Blaze on your wrist.

And shipo and I are on the same page, you could try putting Blaze in pocket or ankle. Some people report getting HR when worn on ankle, don't know about accuracy. Wearing on the ankle is a personal decision. I'd start with pocket.

[SunsetRunner]

I appreciate the good help, and thoughts.  But, I don't see me strapping a blaze to my ankle.  Where will it get HR from on an ankle or shin?

At this point, with no help from Customer Service, an Alta that refuses to update to the latest firmware, and having to wear 3 devices to do what one should.  I'm giving up on FitBit.

FitBit is now useless to me.  Calorie burned inaccurate.  Steps inaccurate.  I could live if they are close.  But, they are demonstrably inaccurate.  FitBit won't give the App the needed Nutrition info.  And sleep is way off on my Blaze with the latest firmware.

If I have to do ALL of that on sidenotes and sheets.  I have no use for FitBit.

[shipo]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

I appreciate the good help, and thoughts.  But, I don't see me strapping a blaze to my ankle.  Where will it get HR from on an ankle or shin?

At this point, with no help from Customer Service, an Alta that refuses to update to the latest firmware, and having to wear 3 devices to do what one should.  I'm giving up on FitBit.

FitBit is now useless to me.  Calorie burned inaccurate.  Steps inaccurate.  I could live if they are close.  But, they are demonstrably inaccurate.  FitBit won't give the App the needed Nutrition info.  And sleep is way off on my Blaze with the latest firmware.

If I have to do ALL of that on sidenotes and sheets.  I have no use for FitBit.

---

How about going outside?  I know you said you have balance issues, but for many folks, me included, walking and/or running for real is far easier from a balance perspective (due to inertia) than locomoting on a treadmill.

[SunsetRunner]

I do certain things outside. Just not at this speed. And in bad weather I can still workout.

Being diabetic, my balance is wee bit off.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

[pierrotsc]

Fitbit and Garmin have inaccurate calories count, especially when walking. dunno why. they are fine while cycling but walking is way high. I think the majority of people do not care about calories or they do not know they are wrong. they like more the steps count.

If you want accurate calories, get a Philips watch. The only thing is that it is not customizable and have no notifications.

I created a forum for it as Philips only have phone support. Look at it, it may answer some of your questions.

The blaze is cool though.

http://www.pierreoliviertavernier.com/Vanilla/index.php?p=/categories/philips-health-suite

[bbarrera]

My Flex and Force had good walking calorie estimates. Haven't bothered to look at walking calorie estimates on Garmin or Surge or Blaze.

[SunsetRunner]

Thank you for a reply.  All you folks have been very helpful in your own way.  Much more so then Customer Support.

Here is my dillema.  With each "metric" of the FitBit system.  I find errors.  I haven't found one yet, that is stable.  The Aria Scale, is different before I get in the shower and after I get out.  Weight can't fluctuate with 2 pounds between a 20 minute shower.  And likewise for body fat.

Now my Blaze tells me I'm asleep, when I sit and watch TV.  While surfing the internet on my Surface 3.  Hard to believe that is consistent with sleeping.  My Alta refuses to update the firmware.

As stated previously, I'm diabetic.  and when once my Blood Sugar was predictable.  now, it is quite unpredictable.  My morning fasting number was 145.  Too high for my goal.  And after a 2 mile fast paced walk on the treadmill at 4.3 miles an hour.  My before lunch Blood Sugar, was 78.  Disturbingly low.

I am trying to correlate exercise with blood sugar.  And by Exercise I mean, calories burned.  If I recall correctly a calorie is a unit of energy, roughly translated to the amount of energy it takes to raise 1 ounce of water 1 degree.

So... by getting wildly incosistent sleep, wildly incosistent calorie burns.  I don't feel comfortable enough to base diet on these feedback points.

I want metrics to inform my decisions on diet, exercise and ultimately blood sugar.

Steps to me are irrelevant.  Because each step is varied by intesity.  2000 steps (for me roughty a mile) at 2 miles an hour with a dog peeing a lot, or sniffing trees is not the same as a mile at high intensity.  I can't gain enough insight into overall health (though the resting heart rate is a good measure there) to make critical decisions on a number of life impacting health issues.

I don't want to be seen as someone who needs perfect accuracy.  I am quite OK with neighborhood accointing (it's not accurate per se, but in the neighborhood).  I just need consistency, so that I'm generally in the same neighborhoods when I check.

Right now, I feel like, my body is in Florida and my data is in Wyoming.

Even a car, which is designed for forward progress.  Has a rearview mirror.  As another variable to aid in the safe operation of the overall vehicle.

[bbarrera]

I have my own opinion on what I would do in your shoes. As for me, Fitbit calorie burned estimates worked for me while walking with Flex and Force. Helped me lose 20-30 lbs. Then I started spinning and cycling and calorie estimates have been off, so I don't bother tracking with Fitbit anymore. The Aria scale has been accurate for my wife and myself, no problems there with accuracy and its within 0.2lbs on consecutive readings. These days I ride 5-10 hours a week and use a better app/online tool for planning workouts and making training decisions, Fitbit has nothing for structured workouts and tracking intensity (and using data to make informed decisions . Despite getting a lot faster on my bike over last 2 years, my resting heart rate hasn't changed. Would be great if it went down, but what has changed is my ability to push hard for two hours without hitting a wall (higher power at just below my lactate threshold) and thats not something Fitbit even measures.

Still have fun on step challenges, even though most "steps" are from cycling and spinning 🙂

[SunsetRunner]

I must just be cursed with FitBit stuff.  So little of what I have is consistent.

I would like to try more bicycling.  Low impact on joints.  And a few good hills where I am.  Also ability to get higher intensity.  Right now, kind of hitting a wall with treadmill.

Like you, I've had some great success.  Same 30 pound loss, though put 8 back on.  And while I did that with a simple flex (yeah got one of them too).  Now I am just not sure what to rely on.

Your idea of trusting my the body, is really in the end the best answer.  I went from a 36 inch waist, to now a 30 inch waist.  And when they get tight, it's more accurate to me then the Aria scale.

The heart rate on the Blaze is really good for me.  In the last 3 weeks, on my latest push, my resting heart rate has gone down by 6 beats a minute.  And a few times, like when the blaze said I was asleep, my heart rate said I was 7 points below my resting heart rate.  Not sure how that happens,  Wouldn't the lower rate become my NEW resting heart rate?

Anyway, thanks for keeping it real in the exchange.  Lot's to think about.

[SunsetRunner]

And then a funny thing happened.  The second firmware update in 10 days.

Now, if I hold my hands palm up, on the treadmill bar, I get a rough approximation of steps, and since it's on the blaze then I do get a somewhat more accurate calorie burn.

Who knew?