Vitamin C Supplements vs. an Apple

[GershonSurge]

I ran across this during my reading today:

The vitamin C– like activity from 100 grams of whole apple was an astounding 263 times as potent as the same amount of the isolated chemical! Said another way, the specific chemical we refer to as vitamin C accounts for much less than 1 percent of the vitamin C– like activity in the apple— a minuscule amount.

Campbell, T. Colin. Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition (p. 153). BenBella Books, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

[WendyB]

Interesting. I actually do both  at different times I try to eat but I also need to make sure i get in my requirements so I do take  pills

[Dominique]

Yes, vitamin C is conveniently common in the exclusively plant-based diet advocated by Dr. Campbell. As Mayo Clinic says, "most people get enough vitamin C from a balanced diet". But how about vitamin D, which is equally as important (especially for us older folks), but only present in foods demonized by Dr. Campbell, and even then, usually in insufficient amounts: does Dr. Campbell reject vitamin D supplements as impotent? What are people who live under northern latitudes and therefore can’t get enough sun most of the year supposed to do?

[GershonSurge]

@Dominique,

Thanks for asking the question.

As far as I know, Vitamin D is not present in any foods unless the foods are fortified with Vitamin D. This fortification is done with supplements. The vitamin D taken in supplements is not the same vitamin D used in the body. The body converts the vitamin D obtained by the sun, and it is converted to a type of vitamin D that is 1,000 times stronger and the process takes milliseconds. That's only the time they measured. With a more accurate stopwatch, they find many processes with enzymes take nanoseconds. Each intermediate step creates other enzymes they are not even aware of. In the presence of harmful products, the results can be harmful instead of beneficial.

A well known case is Beta Carotene. When eaten in food, it is converted to Vitamin A which helps to prevent cancer. When taken in supplements, it can cause cancer. Vitamin E also causes harmful side effects, but I don't recall what they are.

We only need about five minutes of sun a day with our hands and face exposed to get enough vitamin D. This can be through clouds or at any time the sun is up. It shouldn't be that hard for most people to get.

The vitamin D test that is done only tests how much is in the "fuel tank." There is no evidence that the amount of Vitamin D in this tank affects the amount of super Vitamin D that is produced.

Dr. Campbell is pretty much against all supplements except in specific cases. There is usually no benefit and many of them cause harm. Dr. McDougall said, "To be safe, don't take them."

In the case of B-12, they say to take it after five years of not eating any animal products, but they always hedge in a way that shows they are saying this in order to avoid lawsuits by the one in a million strict vegans that have a B-12 deficiency. It's much more common in people who eat animal products because of a folate deficiency. That's why folic acid is added to so many foods.

Back to the northern latitudes. Get five minutes of sun during the months you can. Make your own decision in the months you can't. Before you consider supplements, I suggest reading "Whole" by Dr. Campbell. The book gives a fascinating insight to the scientific process in regards to food. I'm transferring this insight to my exercise program. 

[AngelDeborah]

I do both. I try to eat organic fruit and veggies and take natural whole food supplements. Linus Pauling said that drugs are dangerous and vitamins are safe. He lived into his 90’s by taking megadoses of vitamin C at Dr. Irwin Stone’s recommendation. 

[Dominique]

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@GershonSurgewrote:

We only need about five minutes of sun a day with our hands and face exposed to get enough vitamin D. 

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Depends on where you live (source: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-for-more-vitamin-d😞

To put things in perspective, Seattle is 45 degrees, Helsinki (where I am) is 60 degrees.

Vitamin D is present in some foods (though foods that are not part of your diet), for instance fatty fish (e.g. salmon). However, even people who include such foods in their diet usually don’t consume enough of them to cover their vitamin D needs. I’ll note that 5 ml (about one tablespoon, which is what I take everyday) of my fish oil contains 10 μg of vitamin D. Nevertheless, I supplement vitamin D year round, just to be on the safe side. If I end up spending my old days in Florida, I may change my stance on the matter.

[GershonSurge]

@Dominique,

Vitamin D supplementation is useless. Be sure to read the analysis.

I suggest you read "Whole" by Dr. T. Colin Campbell" to find out how supplement studies are often rigged. The study you recommended is full of holes (pun intended).

[ScottHsv]

I think Dr Campbell's book "Whole" might be next on my reading list. Right after I finish Dr. Greger's tome "How Not to Die".

[MagsOnTheBeach]

I live in a sunny climate and tried sitting in the sun in a bathing suit for 10 minutes a day for 6 months - I could not get my vitamin D levels to change.  I was tired and finally took the supplement.  I feel better and will be getting blood work done this summer.  One thing I learned, is vitamin D is not really a vitamin at all, but a hormone.  I know kids who are outside daily for an hour or more who are vitamin D insufficient single-digit levels in their blood.  For some reason, some thyroids are not converting it to a usable form.  

I do think a food source beats a vitamin every time - but for vitamin D you have to sun mushrooms or get them already sunned.  Some fatty fish has it but fish is expensive for more than twice a week (times 3 people).  I think of my d3 2000mg as a helper.