Cardio vs Weight Training

[Stinkyfish97]

As someone new to getting fit, joined about 4 months ago, I have come to realize I have been thinking about my workouts all wrong. Recently it has come to my attention via a facebook friend that I probably have been putting too much emphasis on cardio, and not enough on actual weight training. 

I come to you from a newbie's perspective. I think a lot of us that are new to getting fit get it wrong on exactly how we should spend our time working out, whether it be at the gym or at home. Even the fitbit puts an emphasis on walking but is that really correct? Putting an emphasis on cardio activity? My facebook friend says no. And the answers were right in front of me all along. 

Cardio: Burn more calories initially, uses muscle and fat stores to provide you with your energy as you burn calories. Thats right when doing cardio you actually burn muscle as well as fat stores to provide you with energy. You may lose weight more quickly but much of that weight is actually do to muscle loss.  The more muscle you build the higher your metabilism will be. Meaning instead of having to starve yourself to lose weight you can eat hearty meals, build muscle and let your muscle and metabilsim work for you. 

Why choose weight training and lifting over simply doing cardio? 

Weight Lifting/Strength Training: Burn less calories initially, however the calories you burn are from fat stores and from food you have eaten through the day. When you lift weights you are building muscle mass, and more muscle means your metabilism increases overtime. Meaning you actually end up burning more fat at the end of the day by lifting than you do doing cardio. Cardio is an effective means to maintaining your mass at where you want it to be but it is not as effective at burning fat as lifting or strength training would be. 

Why do I bring these simple concepts up? I think because I have been new to getting fit as many on these forums are. I did not seek a trainer out at the gym. I watched others workout and saw a lot of people doing cardio and figured that is what I need to be doing to get fit. I read these forums, joined some threads and everyone was talking about running, walking, biking, how many steps they are taking. I guess I got sucked into thinking that is how you should workout. Emphasis cardio training. Its not to say I do not lift but I definetly focus on making sure I get my cardio done everytime at the gym. 

Again what is the point? I write this because I want to point out to those getting started that while there is no reason to neglect cardio, it is not the be all end all to losing weight. Building muscle mass is even more important. To get down to 163lb, I was logging 6+ miles a day, starving myself on 1200-1400 calories a day, beating myself up when I went over. I am here to warn any new participants to these forums. If I could go back I would concentrate 1) Diet 2) Building muscle. I always felt like I had a lack of energy on a diet that was only 1200 calories, this effected the intensity of my workouts as well. When your starving yourself,  your body/metabilism tends to not want to go all out for you, meaning you just keep spinning your wheels. 

[WendyB]

This is true. I have always been told to do both. Its differently not all about Cardio

[JohnRi]

Cardio vs weight training vs both....  It really depends on how much you need to lose.  Plus Cardio has one benefit that weight training does not.  

Cardio burns more fat that weight doing actual weight training.  Cardio also helps increase your heart and lungs health. 

You are correct weight training does help weight loss, however, women can at most gain only 1/2 to 1 lbs of muscle a month.  Men is 1 to 2 lbs.  Age is a huge factor too.  The older you are, the less muscle you can add per month.  Where as cardio burns fat not matter what age you are.

Your assumption that people tend to lose muscle when diet is true, but only if you eat too few calories.  Also weight training makes a huge difference here too.  When you body burns muscle, it burns unused muscle.  So if you work out all muscle groups, at least every other day,  IE Leg day on Monday, Arms on Tuesday, Legs on Wednesday....  you body won't have any muscle to burn.  So a huge reason to do both weight training and cardio at the same time.

But if you eat enough, cardio doesn't have to burn muscle.  From Febuary 2016 to June 2016, I lost about 8 lbs of muscle.  I lost about 50 lbs of fat during this same time.  While I still lost some muscle, I was able to maintain most of my muscle mass during that time period.  I only added weight training two months ago, and have since added muscle since then. 

There is also the issue of how much to lose.  Some that is 350 lbs is not going to be able to do much in the way of weight training.  Limits on the body, and what it can do probably prevent most forms of weight training.  I can't imagine ever doing a Sumo Squat when I weighed 283 lbs.  At 215 when I started doing squats, they were actually fairly easy once I got past the first day. 

I could see me doing curls, and simple arm exercises like lat pulls.  But things like crunches, or push ups, situps, bench presses, leg curls...  These would probably daunting to someone at 350.

Now if you have less than 40 lbs to loss, then weight training would be very doable, and I'd highly recommend doing it.  I didn't start my weight trainging until i was 35 lbs from my first weight loss goal.  And 2 months in, I still find my abs are weak, but slowly improving.  VERY SLOWLY.  But my biceps, triceps, shoulders, they have greatly improved. I'm now about 21 lbs from my goal, 10 weeks after I started weight training. 

How much a difference has weight training made?  No idea, but my fat % is a little more than 2% lower now. 

I did notice one thing about your StinkyFish, you are male.  And eating 1200 calories a day is WAY WAY WAY too low for a man to eat, unless you are are like 4'11" or something.  1200-1300 is the minimum calories that a woman should eat, and 1800 is the minimum for most men.

Eating so little like that will BURN mostly muscle and very little fat, and drive your metabolism down.  Congrats on getting down to 163, but you did it the hard way.  I wouldn't be surprised if your have a normal BMI, but have a higher than normal fat %. Making your normal weight, but overfat.

My BMI is 27.8, but I'm actually under fat for my current weight.  My current BMI, the average fat % is 28-29%  While mine is 24.6 %.  For me to get to 170 lbs, I'll have to get my fat % down to 9-10 %. 

And all I did until June was walk.  4-6 miles everyday.  Simple walking at first, then power walking as I got faster. 

But I've watched my fat % like a hawk, and when it started to rise, I started eating more to knock it back down. 

But I think Cardio is key to losing weight, and weight training is key to improving benifits to cardio.  Both together are a successful pair to weight loss and health. 

[shipo]

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@Stinkyfish97 wrote:

Cardio: Burn more calories initially, uses muscle and fat stores to provide you with your energy as you burn calories. Thats right when doing cardio you actually burn muscle as well as fat stores to provide you with energy. You may lose weight more quickly but much of that weight is actually do to muscle loss.  The more muscle you build the higher your metabilism will be. Meaning instead of having to starve yourself to lose weight you can eat hearty meals, build muscle and let your muscle and metabilsim work for you. 
 

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I'm not sure I agree with the above statement.  Two comments:

1. I would argue if one eats enough, there is very little weight reduction due to muscle loss; especially the muscles of the lower body.
2. A point completely missed is the well documented "afterburn" from cardio, especially running.  Go out for a long run and yes, you will burn a bunch of calories during the run itself, but there is also a residual burn which continues for many hours following the workout.

[JennyJenn]

When I got my Fitbit for the first time (one month ago), I realized I had paused my other workouts and was simply walking to hit the steps. I got 10,000 with little effort and now I'm up to 15,000 a day with a little bit of effort (effort just to remember to walk, not physical effort). But I promised myself to only hit the 10,000 steps a day if I kept neglecting my other workouts - which I've been doing.

I do back and neck exercises, have to add in abs, and I have to get back to my upper body weights. I've totally been neglecting that in favor of my new toy and walking, walking, walking.

So, yes, a good mix is what you want. Everything has benefits and drawbacks. It's a good reminder to not neglect either (cardio and weights) - but give yourself a little breathing room to re-commit or come up with a new routine/new exercises.

Especially as a newbie, I hope you're not regretting what you've done - except maybe you could be eating more. It can be overwhelming to know what to do - so at least get started doing something. Then read, research, test things, and add the exercises you like and give the ones you don't like a fair try. If you really don't like it, don't do it. I loathe lunges and will do extra leg work in order to get away with not doing them.

Don't be afraid to adjust and play around. And give yourself some time to figure this whole thing out. Thank you for sharing! I'm not a newbie, but your post was a reminder to me to add back my weights!

And maybe this will be a helpful hint for you soon, when you're no longer a newbie. You will get bored, even with your favorite exercises. Know this will happen at some point. Be prepared to give yourself a break, and I don't mean a break from exercising. I've read it's a good idea to switch up your routine every three months. I know, I know - "But I JUST was able to complete my workout without looking at the pages!" The problem is, even if you're not mentally bored, your body/muscles will get used to the workout and will no longer be challenged. So be prepared to switch your routine up every so often. Especially if you realize you've hit a plateau.

[A_Lurker]

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@JohnRi wrote:

There is also the issue of how much to lose.  Some that is 350 lbs is not going to be able to do much in the way of weight training.  Limits on the body, and what it can do probably prevent most forms of weight training.  I can't imagine ever doing a Sumo Squat when I weighed 283 lbs.  At 215 when I started doing squats, they were actually fairly easy once I got past the first day. 

I could see me doing curls, and simple arm exercises like lat pulls.  But things like crunches, or push ups, situps, bench presses, leg curls...  These would probably daunting to someone at 350.

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Oddly enough I find weight training far easier than cardio.  Of course, as I've said before, I find cardio kind of boring.   My knees also don't like sustained walking for longer periods of time.  Lifting weights makes me fell, well.. strong.

I use free weights, because sometimes you have to admit that machines are not built for obese bodies.  Seems kind of counter-intuitive, but I remember when first looking for a treadmill how hard it was finding one that was rated for my bodyweight.  I used the one at work, hoping it was a more industrial machine and I wouldn't break it.  I remember one of the guys helping me set up the leg press machine they had and he was surprised he had to add weight to what the guy in front of me was using.  However, I'd already been pushing that weight all the time.  Lunges and squats are tough, but as long as you are okay on your feet your body is already used to carrying your weight.  Push-ups, you start with 60-degree ones and work your way down to the floor.

[bcalvanese]

I think both are important for total fitness.

I would say 3 to 5 sessions of cardio, and 2 to 3 sessions of muscular is a pretty good ratio.

[JamieS_Wisco]

Good Morning @Stinkyfish97,

I totally agree on the front of doing an even balance, I don't know that there should be a "versus" here. Boosting lean muscle mass does boost your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate).  Just about every article I have read suggest a well balanced workout assisting of cardio and strength training.   Both help but do it in different ways. 

I think a lot of people tend towards a cardio routine because it is easy.  Well easy is a misnomer here, we all know how to walk.. We all THINK we know how to run. (I have seen some very good posts on this forum from members on going too long and too fast, causing injury).  We've all done those things since we were little.  Weights however (especially free weights like barbells and dumbbells), are a little tricky sometimes and one can injure themselves if they don't know how to use proper form and weight.  This tends to scare people away from using them.  Also, some women specifically suffer from the mentality that, "If I lift heavy, I'm going to get too big and bulky". 

That was my problem in the beginning.  I couldn't wrap my brain around form or the proper weight to start with.  I thought I was going to look like a He-man with big bulky muscles.  In my mind's eye I kind of saw myself looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger but my head on top.  I was afraid of hurting myself too.  All this made me scared of the weights. 

I did the same thing as you.  I went to the gym and saw people using the cardio machines and thought, well that must be how you lose weight.  I got on the treadmill for an hour at a time and hated every minute of it.  Then I started doing research.  I learned that women do not have the correct combination of hormones necessary to become big and bulky.  The women that have those huge muscles, are using some type of performance enhancing substance to help.  I learned that a 30 minute jog was as effective for blasting fat as my hour on the treadmill. 

My goal is some form of cardio daily (I switch it up between a 5k trainer, elliptical or Arc Trainer) and an added weight routine 4 days a week.  I would suggest however, that this is far more than the average person would need to complete.  I am looking for some rocking muscle tone so I am really trying to kick it.  So I lift HEAVY.  I try to anyhow, and increase my weight each week.  I found programs on websites like Bodybuilding.com, that I could tailor to what I was trying to do.  Now I am trying to bulk up a bit, so I am working the next 12 weeks towards that goal.  Then I'll do a few weeks of just cardio while I search for what I am looking for next.

However, my biggest suggestion always is to find something you like!  I learned that to lose weight and keep it off, it has to be an activity that a person at least half enjoys.  Don't go out for a run every day because that is how it's done.  Don't go and lift weights because someone says it increases your metabolism.  Find your "Fitness Trigger".  There is a host of things to chose from and no one thing is the 100% answer for every person, from Martial Arts to Yoga, Running to Weight Lifting, Hula-Hooping and Dance workouts.  I always suggest that  people try them all until they find their "trigger".  The thing that makes them happy.  This is a life change and in order for it to take hold, we must enjoy whatever it is we are doing.

I completely disagree with starving ones self.  But I see the whole journey as a 3 pronged wheel, each one needing it's own viewpoint on what is right for the individual.  

Diet - Exercise - Mentality

I don't do diets.  I try to eat well and subscribe to the simple less calories in than out.  I found my "fitness trigger" and keep at it.  I try to keep upbeat on my journey and find the rewards where I can.

Just my thoughts, hope you enjoy your journey!

Jamie

[Knight92]

If one is solely concerned about fat loss then gaining muscle is the primary aspect since more muscle mass = more calories burned.

In the real world I have seen studies saying resistance training increasing the caloric burn for hours after you have finished.  I have seen studies saying the same about varying types of cardio.  Do what you like, and enjoy, this is what will help to continue your sojourn.  Enjoy both? make one day cardio and the next resistance etc or whichever combo works for you.

Remember, the key is, in the end what motivates you?  Follow that goal first and foremost!

[Dominique]

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@Knight92 wrote:

If one is solely concerned about fat loss then gaining muscle is the primary aspect since more muscle mass = more calories burned.

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Yes, all things being equal (same weight/height/age/sex) a more muscular person will burn more calories that a less muscular one, so gaining muscle can be considered as a fat loss strategy. However, it’s not a very "efficient" one, because gaining muscle requires a lot of time and effort, and the gain in increased calories burned is rather small.

Let’s take me as an example. I currently weigh about 64 kg (141.1 lbs) and my Fitbit Aria estimates my body fat at about 16%. Let’s say I would manage to gain 5 kg of muscle and no fat at all, thus reaching 69 kg (152.1 lbs). This is highly hypothetical, since maximising muscle gains requires eating at a surplus, and it’s almost impossible not to gain some fat if you’re eating above maintenance. I can also tell you gaining 5 kg of muscle is hard for a 55-year old guy. At 141.1lbs/16%BF, my fat mass would be 22.6lbs and my lean mass 118.5lbs, while at 152.1lbs, my fat mass would still be 22.6lbs (since we assumed no fat gain) and my lean mass 129.5lbs (BF being 22.6/152.1 = 15%). There’s a formula for BMR that takes into account body fat, it’s called Katch-McArdle (it differs from the widely used Mifflin-St. Jeor formula –  which Fitbit uses – which is based on age/sex/height/weight):  according to Katch-McArdle, my BMR would be 1534 calories at 141.1lbs/16%BF and 1640 calories at 152.1lbs/15%BF. Using the "very active" activity level (2nd highest out of 5), my TDEE would be 2647 and 2820. I would therefore burn 106 calories more via BMR by carrying 5 kg more muscle, and 182 calories per day more at my activity level. It’s not much, and if I’d need to rely on that to lose fat, it would take me forever. Much easier and faster to create a deficit via nutrition and cardio activity than by performing resistance training to increase muscle mass.

There are very good reasons to lift weights and become more muscular, but losing fat isn’t the main one IMO.

[shipo]

I too would argue cardio, specifically running and cycling, burn more calories than what were burned during any given workout.  Per the studies cited in the following New York Times article, the "afterburn" effect can add a significant percentage of calories over and above the base workout.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/health/nutrition/19best.html?_r=0

[Dominique]

EPOC (the "afterburn") is often over-rated: it’s only 6-15% of the calories burned during the actual effort (see

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17101527). The higher figure is for HIIT-style cardio activities (which are typically short in duration and therefore don’t burn much in absolute terms), while the lower one is for steady-state cardio (which can be sustained for a longer time). Bottom line: the calories that really matter (for weight loss) are the ones burned during effort, EPOC is mostly a (small) bonus. 

[shipo]

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@Dominique wrote:

EPOC (the "afterburn") is often over-rated: it’s only 6-15% of the calories burned during the actual effort (see

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17101527). The higher figure is for HIIT-style cardio activities (which are typically short in duration and therefore don’t burn much in absolute terms), while the lower one is for steady-state cardio (which can be sustained for a longer time). Bottom line: the calories that really matter (for weight loss) are the ones burned during effort, EPOC is mostly a (small) bonus. 

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Sorry, I completely disagree.  The rigorous study cited in the NYT article shows more like 37% of the calories burned during the effort.  Speaking strictly for myself and those I coach, following a long run (like in the one to two hour or longer range), ones pulse and respiration can remain measurably elevated for ten to twelve hours.  The abstract of the study you reference above seems to target folks who cannot sustain a long duration cardio effort, and because a sustained effort is not achievable, they concluded EPOC was generally unfounded.  Bad science from my perspective.

[emili]

yes, eventually you need both cardio and strength. But initially you need to figure out what your goal is- do you want to lose fat or gain muscle. Very few people can accomplish both at the same time. If your body has muscle memory (meaning you were once very built and are getting back to it) you might. But for newbies- its not going to work. as @Dominique stated- to lose fat you need a deficit to build muscle you need a surplus. So if you cardio and strength train, you will probably, maybe prevent some muscle loss, but you will not build muscle if your primary goal is to lose weight. It just isn't possible. There are 100s of sources out there that will explain this to you in detail...

You can start here http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/. He isn't for everyone, but he explains it well and simply.

[GershonSurge]

(Long table ahead.)

Yesterday, I ran for 100 minutes without stopping except for a quick biobreak. The run ended at 6:05 am. By 6:43, I was back to my resting pulse, which is 61 when I'm awake. Keep in mind, from 6:05 to 6:43, I was making and eating breakfast, so that would elevate my pulse a bit.

(data is from http://www.squashleagues.org/Fitbit/SelectFitbitData)

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2016-08-21 06:39:00	68
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2016-08-21 06:39:40	70
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2016-08-21 06:40:20	71
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2016-08-21 06:40:50	71
2016-08-21 06:40:55	68
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[shipo]

@GershonSurge, when I go for a long run at an  easy pace my heart rate does the same as what you've posted above, however, when I push the workout such as last Wednesday when I ran a very hilly (as in over 1,200' of vertical gain) 10.2 mile run at lunch in 85 minutes, my pulse, looked like the following:

• Start: 42 bpm (11:26 AM)
• Mile 1: 125 bpm
• Mile 2: 132 bpm
• Mile 5: 129 bpm
• Mile 7: 143 bpm
• Mile 9: 159 bpm
• Final: 150 bpm (12:50 PM)
• Maximum: 170 bpm (up a long grade)
• Minimum: 117 bpm (down a long grade)
• 14:00: 61 bpm
• 16:00: 50 bpm
• Midnight: 42 bpm
• 02:00: 34 bpm

[bcalvanese]

Oh yeah...

Well when I run 100 miles in 100 minutes, my heart rate goes down to 0 very quickly.

Because I died...:)

[GershonSurge]

I think the whole afterburn thing is an advertising ploy to sell fitness tapes, supplements, and whatever else they are selling. (Attention step.)

If I were testing afterburn, I'd have a group of people work to exhaustion in a short period and then have them be completely at rest for 24 hours to see how many calories they burned. Then I'd have them burn the same number of calories in an easier, but longer workout and see how many calories they burned at rest. The first test might have caused minor damage to their system that would require repair and would consume calories. But that's not how life works.

If I go for my 100 minute run in the morning and stay in control keeping the effort sub-maximal, I come home energized and ready to do chores around the home. In fact, if it weren't for making posts on this forum, I'd have a hard time sitting still. This energy continues throughout the day. On the other hand, if I make a maximum effort, I don't feel like doing much work during the day. I might even take a long nap when I come home.

Training effect is a function of Frequency, Intensity, and Time (FIT). Pick one or two to maximize.

I choose to maximize the Frequency (Daily), and Time (100 minutes alternating with 50 minutes.) I keep the Intensity low. I could achieve similar results by increasing the intensity and decreasing the time or by using other combinations. The combination that doesn't work is trying to maximize all three.

[Dominique]

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@GershonSurge wrote:

I think the whole afterburn thing is an advertising ploy to sell fitness tapes, supplements, and whatever else they are selling. 

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Hmm, I fail to see how any person or company could have a vested interest in overstating the impact of EPOC. Regardless of what you think of it, EPOC just doesn’t "sell" anything.

[GershonSurge]

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@Dominique wrote:

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@GershonSurge wrote:

I think the whole afterburn thing is an advertising ploy to sell fitness tapes, supplements, and whatever else they are selling. 

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Hmm, I fail to see how any person or company could have a vested interest in overstating the impact of EPOC. Regardless of what you think of it, EPOC just doesn’t "sell" anything.

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@Dominique,

There is a group of about 10 of us who tend to end up on the same threads, and I feel everyone has a great exercise plan. EPOC is a great way to exercise as are many other ways. The thing I don't care for is it is often sold as a way to get skinny in 15 minutes a day. Interval training is nothing new, and I knew about it in high school as that's what we used for track. It's a natural cycle of play for most children. At least it used to be when children were active.

I'm not really picking on EPOC as my comment about vested interest applies to all methods of training. There is seldom anything new, but there are new ways of repackaging the old. If you Google EPOC, you will find "specialized" EPOC supplements. Runners will find shoes and inserts made exactly for their style of running. (The colors are different.) Now we "have" to have a fancy watch with a heart rate monitor.