Tracking Shabbos

[Noah773]

Do you manually enter your Shabbos steps? If so, how many steps do you put in for Shabbat? 

I'm always a solid 10,000 behind half the people on my non-demoninational, friends leaderboard since I don't wear my fitbit on sabbath. 

Someone suggested just manually putting in 10,000 steps or doubling Sunday but I don't really want my numbers to be to low or high. The same goes for Yom Tov, Chaggim, yuntiff, any chag and other variations on the words for "Shabbos" and "Yom Tov" stuffed into this post to make sure your seach finds this discussion. 

How do you roll on Shabbos?

[GarudaGirl]

That's an interesting question. I've been kind of looking to see if you get a response, out of curiosity. I don't have any idea...so of course I researched what was out there for ideas.

Anyway...here is what I found:

http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/37772/fitness-tracker-on-shabbat

Hope it helps. Complicated, huh?

[lyro]

Hi.  First let me say that I am not personally affected by your question, and have no specific knowledge to back up an answer, but I do find your question very interesting.  I do have an analogy that might give food for thought.  I live in a metropolitan area and there is a local hospital that has its elevators automatically stop on every floor on Shabbos so that any person who is observing can ride the elevator without having to push the button.  Assuming it is okay to ride the elevator on Shabbos as long as you don't push the button, would that be the same as wearing a Fitbit if you didn't push the button or retrieve the data on Shabbos?  Just made me wonder.  Best of luck in finding an answer and please keep us posted.

[gebobs]

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@Noah773 wrote:

Do you manually enter your Shabbos steps? If so, how many steps do you put in for Shabbat? 

I'm always a solid 10,000 behind half the people on my non-demoninational, friends leaderboard since I don't wear my fitbit on sabbath. 

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Wow, you can't even where a Fitbit? Holy moley! Those are some strict rules. 

At any rate, I think manually logging them in would suit your purposes fine. 

I manually entered a few walks on top of the recorded Fitbit steps. It doesn't exactly double count, but it does toss in some extra steps. For example, I went for a 4.6 mile walk yesterday and my total without the manual entry was 27k. I logged it manually and the total for the day went up to 30k even though the total for on the log for the walk was 10k. So for me, lesson learned. Only manually log activities if not wearing the Fitbit. Is that right?

[Noah773]

@GarudaGirl

Thanks for the link. Whether a digital pedometer is allowed on Shab is an interesting conversation. I'm no Rav but as I understand it an issue with Fitbit would be that it might only be allowed to be worn within an eruv (not a problem in my community). Another issue is the accelerometer. As I understand the technology (I'm no engineer either) the accelerometer does not create a circut (which would certainly make the tracker mukzah according to most authorities) but rather it measures the current level created by the proximity of the internal coil which is moved as you walk. Again, please refer to the lack of electrical engineering degree on my wall. So, while the Fitbit isn't creating a circut it is modulating the current which may or may not be an issue. As they say "ask your local rabbi".

What your local rabbi will probably tell you is... <rabbivoice>Ah, you ask an interesting question. There are opinions that allow for lieniency if you are required to wear it but ideally you should avoid it if possible. Is there a medical reason why you would need to wear this? No? Mmmmm. Well in that case wearing the device would not be recommended.</rabbivoice>

I'm really approaching this by trying to find what people do who are of the opinion that Fitbitting is not permitted.

[Noah773]

@lyro 

Nu, you say good...

I like how you're thinking. Elevators and Shabbos are a whole category unto themselves. You raise a good question though. One of the main differences though is that the elevator (when set to "Sabbath mode" i.e. stops on every floor) is going to do what it does totally independent of what you do (almost if you ignore the door sensors). On the other hand (literally) the Fitbit ChargeHR only acts when I move so any electrical changes are dependent on my action. That doesn't automatically make the Fitbit allowed or forbidden but it certainly makes the arguement for the elevator being permitted easier.

Additionally, an elevator in a hospital may have additional leiniences since you or a loved one is there for health reasons which basically trumps all Shabbos law.

Thanks for the idea though!

[Noah773]

@gebobs 

Woah! 30K in one day? Nice work. My best day badge is 20,000k. Of course I might have done even better on some Shabbos, ammarigt? Also, I don't Fitbit during my Tough Mudders (I was told that this is the humble brag thread). 

Anyhoo, yeah this thread is basically for OJs who wear fitness trackers.

All these conversations also don't even get into the issues with the HR monitors which probably have their own issues. But that feature can be turned off. Also my guess is that they are less problematic since they are watching continuously (be sure to set them to On since Auto may have its own issues). And they are also just measuring what they see which is similar to but not the same as changing the current as the accelerometer does.

[lyro]

@Noah773, A question please...this is something I have always wondered.  If religious law dates back to ancient times as per bible, customs, etc., how is it that there is so much reference to what can or cannot be done regarding the use of electronics, circuits, etc. when these things did not exist way back when.  Is it just people's or religious leaders interpretation based on what they perceive 'work', etc. to be?  

[gebobs]

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@Noah773 wrote:

Woah! 30K in one day? Nice work. My best day badge is 20,000k. Of course I might have done even better on some Shabbos, ammarigt? 

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LOL, right on, man!

My best day actually was 40k doing the Highline Trail in Glacier National Park. I only had Zip then so no climb data. Would have been a few hundred flights at least. Dog tired after that.

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@Noah773 wrote:

Anyhoo, yeah this thread is basically for OJs who wear fitness trackers.

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So I gather. It's fascinating.

I know a feller that is a former Hasid. The stories he tells of what folks had to do just get around on Shabbos. Yeesh. He used to live someplace in NYC where he said they tied a string around the whole neighborhood to kind of get around something. I think it was so they could carry keys outside their home. 

Good on you guys. I wouldn't last a minute as an OJ. But love me some latkes.

[Noah773]

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@lyro wrote:

If religious law dates back to ancient times as per bible, customs, etc., how is it that there is so much reference to what can or cannot be done regarding the use of electronics, circuits, etc.

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The basic answer is that Judaism is founded in the past but is a living growing religion. Think of Orthodox Jewish law, also know as "halacha", like the US law code. US law is built on the constitution and laws passed subsequently. Judgements are made and the implications of those judgements are used as precedent, are debated and are challenged. States may have their own State laws that may or may not conflict with Federal law. etc. etc. Halacha is similar. There are founding documents (e.g. Torah), law books (e.g. Talmud), thousands of books of analysis. Religious leaders and scholars interpret the laws within the accepted decisions and precedents. When new issues arise (electricity is a great example) there is often much debate and disagreement. 

Of course if the Torah was clear about the use of Fitbit on Shabbos then we wouldn't have had this conversation in the first place. 🙂

[lyro]

Thanks Noah.  I guess I am a bit of a 'questioner' and tend to rely on logic.  I find religion spiritually beautiful, but I'm not a follower and have a diffuclt time with blind faith/practice.  I have a great respect for those that do pratice their religions though.  I get what you say about religion being a living, growing thing, but it seems to me that the mystical/spiritual part then gets kind of watered down with poeple's opinions over time.  Who would have thought that Fitbit would have lead to this conversation! lol  BTW, my mom has a very old set of books on Jewish law (very old...pre Fitbit...lol...) very interesting reading.

[Noah773]

@lyro  Faith and blind following are just a part of religion, for some people. It really is a whole package. There's faith but also spirituality, ritual, tradition, family, community, etc. People can emphasize (or deemphasize) on each of these. Much like on a sound board where you control bass, treble, etc. some people want to blow out their speakers with bass, other like a nice balanced sound. There are others who don't want to think for themselves and just want a prepackaged equalizer that will control their experience and cancel out all sound around them. Naturally, I'm talking about Beats by Dre and not making any kind of analogy whatsoever.

[gebobs]

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@Noah773 wrote:

@lyro  Much like on a sound board where you control bass, treble, etc. some people want to blow out their speakers with bass, other like a nice balanced sound.

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I prefer quiet. 🙂

[lyro]

haha...well put Noah!

[GarudaGirl]

@Noah773

You know what you should do? Go to the online Ask a Rabbi (not on Shabbat, ha!) and inquire. I've asked all kinds of things in the past, and they are really nice about answering seriously. I completely appreciate the question, actually. It reminds me of a book I read, "Snow in August" ... in which an Orthodox rabbi has a Shabbos Goy to turn on his lights on Saturdays. I guess it might come down to what you feel is appropriate, in the end. You will probably feel best when your decision reconciles with your beliefs.

The other thing you could do is track yourself on a day of similar activity, and then you will know what to add in.

Cool question. Fun discussion. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Ravencyclist]

Could you just not sync the watch during times when you can not do something considered work At least till there is some sort of update?

[Noah773]

Thanks for the idea! The concern is that changing the state of an electrical switch (on to off, off to on) is the "work" I'm trying to avoid. Automated syncing is probably not an issue (#notaRabbi) but the act of stepping which is directly impacting springs, circuts, electrons, bits and bytes is the issue.

[John1234]

I think there is a software solution:

https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Surge/Surge-Not-Exodus-20-8-11-Compliant/m-p/779210

The approach might not work for everyone, but even just 30%-50% would be much better than 0%.

[sidran32]

I am not Jewish, and am only incidentally familiar with the Jewish customs regarding work on the Sabbath.

Would the act of stepping as it relates to a pedometer not be considered "work" because while it may (or may not) be triggering electrical switches in an electrical gadget, so long as you aren't specifically exercising, you would be walking about anyway, so that it is being recorded by the pedometer is "incidental" work? I understand working not being permitted, but I don't believe that the Sabbath being a day of rest would mean you wouldn't be getting out of bed at all. 🙂

Of course a Rabbi would best answer this question, but it is my understanding that automating processes could count as preparing ahead of time, as it is taking the task of tracking and inputting data from the human and giving it to a computer instead. I could see an analog between doing that and "preparation" in the sense of preparing your meals for the Sabbath on the day before so that you aren't working by preparing and cooking your food on the Sabbath itself.

Just my humble thoughts. 🙂

[John1234]

Sidran32- thanks for the reply. Yes your comments make sense to me. I personally still walk around on shabbat. I might even go for a long walk on shabbat. And I wouldn't mind if my Surge stays on and tracks it. But I don't want to be pressing buttons on my watch, wondering if it will buzz or not buzz, or using the app. And I don't want to feel guilty if I burn fewer calories and eat more food than on other days. Every day isn't the same. I remember years ago when I was training for a marathon that sometimes I would have to take a day off after a long run to recover. IMHO it's the same idea.