fake steps/cheating

[SunsetRunner]

I'm sure I am not the only one sick of the posts/threads/accusations

lets define a step

a step is when you lift the leg up and then put it down

so by that definition, steps done on a exercise bike, cycling, walking, jogging, running even on the spot is a step

a fake step/cheating is when you attach it to say a fan, pet, ride a horse, get someone else to do the steps while you rest etc, those are fake steps/cheating

what about cheating in a challenge?

unless it is stated in the rules that only certain steps are allowed, or certain steps are not allowed, then no one is cheating

for example, if someone was to do their steps in a challenge where no rules were laid down, then they did not cheat, however, if rules were laid down, and they were broken, then yes they have cheated

what about they are fake steps because they are easier?

then what you are saying is that because you did say 10k steps sprinting, then anyone who did 10k steps not sprinting were fake steps/cheating

again, unless it was stated in the rules, then no one is cheating

just because you ran 30k steps, does not mean that the steps done by someone who did not run them were fake/cheating

do you know what it sounds like?

those who run the London/Boston or whatever marathon accusing those who jogged/walked it as cheaters, because the steps they did were easier

so unless I or other people broke the rules in the challenge, then no one did any fake steps or cheated

and I can hand on heart say that neither myself or others in the challenges that I particpate in are doing any fake steps or cheated, or at least I know that I haven't

what about comparing the amount of steps done? just because we did the steps say jogging on the spot, on a exercise bike, and you did them running outside, does not also mean that our steps were fake, yes they might have been easier, but boohoo, life is not fair, get over it, running in say cold weather/country is easier than running in a warm/hot country, does that mean those steps are fake?

not to mention, because you ran them, by your reasoning, someone who sprinted them, they could then call your steps as fake, and you are a cheater, because the steps you did where easier than theirs, how would you feel?

as I said before, I can not leave the house alone, so are you saying that all the people like myself are not allowed to use a fitbit, or join challenges, as our steps are fake steps/cheating?

[pcobb8]

Ultimately I will say this.  As long as you are getting your fitness in, who cares what other people are saying.  If people who you are doing challanges with are accusing you of cheating, then screw them and get new people to do challanges with.   If you are doing challanges and think people are gaining steps in a way you don't feel is appropirate, do challanges with new people instead of calling them out.  

One comparision that i don't agree with is the one between walking, running, sprinting.   Ultimately they are all the same to me.   If you jog 3 miles, it may only take you 30 minutes but would take more effort.   if you walk, it could take you an hour.   but the steps would be equal(ish) per mile.  

[SunsetRunner]

lol

tbh, I don't really care, but it is hopefully to stop those posts/threads and hopefully get the forum back to what it should be, friendly chatter, help each other lose weight etc

I used that contrast between steps really just to point out that just because a person is doing their steps one way, does not mean that they are not steps

[GershonSurge]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

lol

tbh, I don't really care, but it is hopefully to stop those posts/threads and hopefully get the forum back to what it should be, friendly chatter, help each other lose weight etc

I used that contrast between steps really just to point out that just because a person is doing their steps one way, does not mean that they are not steps

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Bicycling is NOT steps. Steps are defined as putting one foot in front of the other and setting it down in a different place. They aren't any up and down motion. The fact that a person cannot physically do a step doesn't justify competing under false pretenses with those who can .

Anyone who enters a STEP based activity group using fake steps is ruining the group for those who expect to compete on real STEPS. Not a rationalized justification for counting motions that are not STEPS.

You continually try to portray those who take real STEPS under better conditions as cheaters. Meanwhile, you are counting steps that are not STEPS.

You are free to create an activity group with your own rules. The more I listen to your rants, the more I am convinced fake steps are cheating. As you said in another post. "Life isn't fair. Get over it." 

[shipo]

A step is not a step; at the bottom end of the scale is the empty steps many folks use to log huge numbers of steps per day with no miles logged to show for them; then there's slow walking, fast walking, slow running, and fast running.  Lots of folks what are convinced a step is a step, but we all know that isn't the case.

[GershonSurge]

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@shipo wrote:

A step is not a step; at the bottom end of the scale is the empty steps many folks use to log huge numbers of steps per day with no miles logged to show for them; then there's slow walking, fast walking, slow running, and fast running.  Lots of folks what are convinced a step is a step, but we all know that isn't the case.

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Then there is "old man 'running'" like I do. It burns fewer calories per mile (according to the Surge) than walking. At the same time, it gets more steps per minute.

I watch my "Fitbit miles" which I know aren't accurate. I start to anticipate some sort of minor physical problem when I get to about 105 a week on my Zip regardless how I get those miles. The Surge logs some extra steps with random motions like hoeing my garden. Still, if I call my hand a foot, I guess they should count. 🙂

@shipo, truthfully, I'd like to exchange a screen print of a run once a week or so. I can learn a lot from your numbers and charts.

[shipo]

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@GershonSurge wrote:

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@shipo wrote:

A step is not a step; at the bottom end of the scale is the empty steps many folks use to log huge numbers of steps per day with no miles logged to show for them; then there's slow walking, fast walking, slow running, and fast running.  Lots of folks what are convinced a step is a step, but we all know that isn't the case.

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Then there is "old man 'running'" like I do. It burns fewer calories per mile (according to the Surge) than walking. At the same time, it gets more steps per minute.

I watch my "Fitbit miles" which I know aren't accurate. I start to anticipate some sort of minor physical problem when I get to about 105 a week on my Zip regardless how I get those miles. The Surge logs some extra steps with random motions like hoeing my garden. Still, if I call my hand a foot, I guess they should count. 🙂

@shipo, truthfully, I'd like to exchange a screen print of a run once a week or so. I can learn a lot from your numbers and charts.

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Yeah, I've been hit with the whole old man running thing as well where my Surge kinda-sorta indicates my walking steps burn more calories than my running steps.  Personally I'm thinking that's just a tuning of the formula thing.  That said, I'm thinking walking at say a 15:00 per mile pace will in fact probably burn a few more calories per mile than running at that same pace.  Why?  Walking that fast is hard, and running that slow is relatively easy.  Of course most folks who can walk at that 15:00 per mile pace can probably run somewhat faster, and as such, burn more calories in the process, so my example probably isn't relevant.

I did a nice 13.17 mile trail run this evening; I'll post the screen shots tomorrow.  🙂

[emili]

I guess I am confused by all the hoopla. The point of having a fitbit is to keep yourself on track, to ensure you are getting enough movement in your day to support a healthy lifestyle. Challenges are designed to give you a reason to take a few more steps than you may normally- get into the competitive spirit. If you are challenged by people who do miles more than you, I guess I would have to ask why. What is the fun in that? The only thing that happens is sour grapes and accusations. Just because someone is invited to a challenge, doesn't mean they have to accept. I am always in five challenges at one time. I win none of them. But, I am friendly with people from all over the world. They send me pictures of where they live, interesting places they visit, food that is specific to their culture. They share with me their hobbies and if I have a friend in another country with the same interest- I match them up. Does it make me more aware of how many steps I am not taking- of course, so I get off my bum and go for a walk, which then gets cheered. Perspective. Its all about what you want out of it.

[SunsetRunner]

emili

exactly, the whole point of the fitbit is to help you get more active and lose weight

the challenges were to get people to push each other to lose weight

the fact that some people have taken it further is their choice

is a disabled person not allowed to use a fitbit or join challenges because they are disabled and can not walk?

a step is a step, no matter how you take it

it jogging on the spot is not a step, then what is it? backstroke?

you say that a step is putting one foot infront of the other, a bicycle/exercise bike does that motion, yet you say they are not steps, what about wheelchair bound users? their steps count? but what is the difference? because they are disabled and wheelchair bound, then it is fine, yet someone who is disabled and not wheelchair bount it is not

some say bycycle steps are allowed, yet exercise bike ones are not allowed, what is the difference between the two?

it is always the same few people that challenge it, how many people are using a fitbit? if you were to make a percentage, then the percentage of users that care would be miniscule

the fact is that the majority of fitbit users are casual users and could not care less

the challenges allow you to set rules, so set your rules as you see fit, so until we join your challenge and break your rules, we are doing nothing wrong, regardless of what you think

Gershon, Shipo, I hope for your sake that one day you do not say end up becoming ill, get hit by a vehicle etc and end up being disabled and housebound and end up having to get your steps in however you can, because should that day come, you will then realise how stupid, selfish your comments are and thinking is

because what you are saying is that people like myself and others that are housebound are not allowed to join challenges or even use fitbits because we are cheating, and unless we pace around the house, then our steps are fake and do not count

take emili and other parents of young babies, are you saying that the only steps they do that count is if they pace around the house or when they take the baby out shopping etc?

if this goes any further with the accusations etc, then I will end up wishing that you get hit by a car etc and end up being disabled just so that you end up being housebound and have to get your steps in just like myself and others, so that you can see from our point of view what your accusations sound like, because great that you can go out of the house and run marathons etc, but not all of us can

don't you think that we want to get out of the house, enjoy the sun etc, do you really think that we want to be housebound 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year?

let me ask you this question then

how is a disabled person that is housebound to get their steps in?

go out for a walk? run? oh wait, they are housebound so they can not do that

[SunsetRunner]

what about those that use an under the desk steppers at work? are they fake? funny how they call it a under the desk stepper, yet although it is a stepper, the step motion is just up and down, just like jogging on the spot

you say stepping is putting one foot infront of the other, cycling be it a bike or exercise bike does that, yet they are fake? 

like I said, great that you are fit and healthy and can go out on walks, runs, marathons etc, not everyone can, so do not judge us until you have been in our shoes

I could take pictures of the walking/running machine, elliptical walker, under the desk walker to show you where I used to be to where I am now, from walking/running outside, before I came ill, to slowly buying devices to keep me stepping and you can see that from what you call real steps slowly going to what you call fake steps

what you are ultimately saying is that people like myself who is housebound for whatever reason have no right to buy a fitbit or join challenges, do you realise how selfish that is and sounds?

or are you saying that because we are disabled/housebound etc that we are only allowed to do a certain amount of steps?

like I have said before, challenges have rules that you can set, you join your challenges, we join ours, until we join your challenges and break your rules, keep your comments to yourself because all you are doing is creating threads and making posts that cause arguements, or maybe that is your intentionand you are getting off on it?

you are only thinking and looking at it from your point of view, not ours, because I have been in both camps, I am seeing it from both point of views

yes it may annoy you, but not everyone can go out and walk/run to get their steps in and have to get their steps in anyway they can

you said that you used to be overweight etc, that is not being disabled in the same way that we are disabled, you managed to lose weight allowing you to go out walking/running etc, we do not have that option, so you have no idea what we have to go through day in day out, so until that day comes, you have no idea what we deal with every day and what we have to do to get our steps in

life isn't fair, if it was, everyone would be fit and healthy, no one would be homeless etc

[SunsetRunner]

to pull up comments made in another thread

'That said, unless a challenge is for qualified steps (via GPS tracking or a heart rate or some such), I won't be joining; too many folks "walking in place in front of their desks" while racking up thousands of fake steps.'

'Well said;  real steps (or even no steps at all if done well) > fake steps any day of the week.'

do you know how single minded and selfish that sounds?

great that you are fit and healthy and can go out on runs etc

I hope for your sake that you do not end up being disabled and have to get your steps in anyway you can, because should that day ever come, you will realise that the comments you made were just plain selfish and stupid

because what you are saying is that people that can not leave the house for what ever reason have no right to use a fitbit because the steps they do are 'fake'

are you saying that because I am/we are disabled and can not leave the house that we have no right to use a fitbit and/or join challenges because the only real way for me/us to get steps in is to do what you call as 'unqualified' 'fake steps' and that we should just sit on our backside and watch tv all day?

[shipo]

I'm not going to respond point by point to your rants; apparently you don't believe in a level playing field.

The points I'm trying to make are as follows:

• When a challenge is issued, there should be some ground rules; if unlimited fake steps are allowed, then so be it, however, if steps for locomotion are required, then folks who log huge numbers of fake steps should either not join or should be bounced from the challenge.
• You routinely reference folks who log 100,000 steps daily on a regular basis; tell me the truth, do you really think those are true steps?  I certainly don't.

Final thought; what is so selfish about wanting a relatively level playing field?  Isn't it a bit selfish to go around casting accusations like that just because you want to call folks who log fake step legit?

[GershonSurge]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

Gershon, Shipo, I hope for your sake that one day you do not say end up becoming ill, get hit by a vehicle etc and end up being disabled and housebound and end up having to get your steps in however you can, because should that day come, you will then realise how stupid, selfish your comments are and thinking is

because what you are saying is that people like myself and others that are housebound are not allowed to join challenges or even use fitbits because we are cheating, and unless we pace around the house, then our steps are fake and do not count

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Do NOT put words in my mouth.  I WAS disabled with a back injury and couldn't do ANY exercise for a year, including extended walking. It took 24 years for me to get to the point where I could start old man running. After that year off, I walked many miles to rehabilitate my back. Many of them were painful. 

@shipo was sidelined with a serious leg break.

I NEVER said or implied that you couldn't use a fitbit.

What is selfish is saying you should be able to compete in STEP based competitions with steps that are not steps. By your definitions, running in place COULD be called the backstroke if I had no arms and wanted to  participate in a swimming competition. After all, the motion with the legs would be the same. They are moving back and forth.

Now I'm rehabilitating from being 63 years old. My goal is to compete equally with runners decades younger. 

[SunsetRunner]

you call them rants, because you have no real answer to them

I have no issues with creating a level playing field, which you so conventiently accuse me of not believing

but the problem is with people like yourself

what you are saying is that because I am disabled and housebound I can not use a fitbit or join challenges unless I pace around the house, or other people in the same position that I am in

which I might point out you have not answered to, am I allowed to use a fitbit or not? am I allowed to join challenges or not?

whether those that routinely do 100k as real or fake, I am personally not bothered, you might be and so be it, you and others want to make it a competition, not all of us do

granted, I agree that fake steps are unfair, no one is denying that

like you said, when the challenge is issued and people join, by joining that challenge you are agreeing to the rules

I have not joined your challenges, so I have not broken them

Isn't it a bit selfish to go around casting accusations like that just because you want to call folks who log fake step legit?

just like you are casting accusations that my steps are fake, because I am housebound and can not go out for walks, jogs etc that all my steps are fake

answer me this

if your were disabled and housebound, how would you do your steps?

[GershonSurge]

Wytey,

Actually, you have joined one of my activity groups and many months, you beat me with steps that are not steps. 

[SunsetRunner]

the point I was trying to make is that I am disabled for life and housebound, great that those that were disabled and have recovered, but what if you did not recover, and were disbaled and housebound for life, how would you then get your steps in?

so if the steps I am doing are fake steps, not allowed etc, then what you are saying is that I have no right to use a fitbit or join challenges, you say that I am putting words iinto your mouth, but look at it from my point of view, the steps that I am doing, are the steps that I can do, and what you are saying is that they are fake, I have no right to use a fitbit or join challenges, afterall how else do you expect me to get my steps in?

[SunsetRunner]

I only join challenges that I am invited to, I do not create any or randomly join them, so someone in that challenge invited me knowing the steps that I do

[shipo]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

if your were disabled and housebound, how would you do your steps?

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I've been disabled; per the surgeon who screwed my leg back together I would walk with a limp for the rest of my life and I would never run again.  For well over six years my surgeon's words proved to be true, and during that period, I logged very few steps, probably less than 5,000 per day on average.

Then I figured out how to run again; very sparingly at first, started with an eighth of a mile, then a quarter mile, then a half...  My first month back I logged a grand total of eight miles of running, and no one run was longer than a half mile.

As for challenges, I have yet to issue any, that and I have no intention on issuing any in the future, so you need not worry about any rules which might be attached to any such challenge.

[SunsetRunner]

again Shipo, I am glad that you recovered and are able to walk again, even with a limp

but as you said, you were housebound but you are no longer housebound

but like I said, I can not recover and am disabled for life, how else do you expect me to get my steps in?

I know it may sound like personal attacks etc, but they are not, just that I am annoyed, the steps that I do are the only type of steps I can do, so for people to call them fake etc is just annoying

[GershonSurge]

As I explained in a previous post, I never said you have no right to use a Fitbit. Quit putting that lie in my mouth. 

There are features that are useful for you.

If you can't take real steps, then it is unfair to enter a STEP based competition. I never said you couldn't enter competitions. It's simple to start your own and state the rules in the comments. 

There are other ways to measure your exercise efforts while using the Fitbit. Calories is one way. Activity time is another. Even the number of motions the Fitbit records as steps is useful for you.