treadmill/elliptical trainer/cross trainer steps, ok or not?

[SunsetRunner]

walking/jogging on the spot, exercise bike has been sorted, but what about the above? if we go by the official definition, then they are not

some said those are cheating/fake, but were then ok with treadmill etc, might as well get this out of the way and clear for everyone to prevent future issues

from @BruceBu

(unless you are moving your body mass down the road by putting one foot in front of the other, without using mechanical aids, it ain't a step).

from dictionary.com

a movement made by lifting the foot and setting it down again in a new position, accompanied by a shifting of the weight of the body in the direction of the new position, as in walking, running, or dancing.

from oxforddictionaries.com

Lift and set down one’s foot or one foot after the other in order to walk somewhere or move to a new position

[BruceBu]

Just wanted to say that I did not call them cheating or fake,  just that they do not meet the basic definition of a step - they can still be good exercise if used properly (just as walking and running should be done properly). I prefer the strict definition, otherwise I guess we'd just have to say any physical activity that can cause a small object to experience an acceleration of ~ 1.2 G can be called a step. Where SHOULD the line be drawn?

[GershonSurge]

By Bruce's definition, we shoudn't count walking in trains or planes either. 🙂

[BruceBu]

Not my definition, just the one I use from the dictionary. Love all you wanna be physicists. Walking on a train is fine - no different than walking at the equator where the ground is moving a bit more than 1000 miles per hour. You know, inertial reference frames.

[GershonSurge]

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@BruceBu wrote:

Love all you wanna be physicists. Walking on a train is fine - no different than walking at the equator where the ground is moving a bit more than 1000 miles per hour. You know, inertial reference frames.

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That's another thing. We shouldn't count walking west as the earth is moving under us. 🙂

What about climbing up the down escalator for stair climbing?

Added:

An inertial reference frame is why I'm inclined to accept treadmill steps. I liked your description of walking on a treadmill is like standing in place and fluttering your legs under you. It feels like that to me, too. 

I found some references stating it takes fewer calories to walk on a treadmill, but a 1% incline equalizes it. 

[BruceBu]

I think climbing up the down escallator is to climbing real stairs is the same as a treadmill is to free walking or running. Same thing - to some extent, you can 'adjust'/flutter your legs under your center of mass, without ever actually lifting that center of mass. Real stairs, you have to honestly lift your body mass up the given elevation, not just bobble it in one place. Again, I'm not saying they aren't good exercise, just that they are not equivalent. My real objection is more fundamental - using mechanical devices to assist you in doing incomplete forms of natural exercises that you should be able to do on your own. 

[shipo]

That is, unless you actually climb the floor spanned by the down escalator.  🙂

[GershonSurge]

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@shipo wrote:

That is, unless you actually climb the floor spanned by the down escalator.  🙂

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How many floors would you get credit for?

Seriously, I think treadmills are close enough for activity groups. 

[BruceBu]

I guess you can adjust your speed to be nearly opposite that of the escalator and get 1000's of steps per floor, or you could go fast, get maybe twice as many steps as the actual 'flight length'.

I agree treadmills are fine for activity groups - the few % lowering of effort is not significant in view of the wide varibility in 'valid steps' (Hussain Bolt vs. someone just starting a walking program - perhaps 100-fold difference in energy expenditure/step, but both valid).

But, as Getrude Steinhopper said "A step is a step is a step."

[WendyB]

@SunsetRunner You really need to let this go.

The other posters are just making fun of you.

Maybe you dont see it but I do. They are being rude to you. Which in MHO is child like behavior on thier part

Please drop it. Let the Kids carry on else where.

[GershonSurge]

@WendyB,

I'm actually doing a lot of research to try to agree with wytey, and I'm getting close to that point. For my part, the extremes in this thread were a bit of poking fun at myself. I can see how it could be taken differently, and I apologize for that.

Most people would probably agree that steps on a treadmill suffice for the activity groups. The next question is if running in place should count. Yesterday, I found research by Ken Cooper that running in place at 60-70 steps per minute gives more aerobic benefit than walking or slow jogging. From the beginning, I accepted these steps. 

There is a simple solution for Wytey. Form an activity group that includes everything. Since she mentioned not knowing how to form a group, I just did that for her by forming an "Anything Goes" activity group. It will gradually get new members.

I also formed a Purist group for those who feel like I do. 

Now people can "Hike their own hike" as they say in the backpacking world. 

[BruceBu]

In place doesn't qualify for me. I can maintain a in-place-marching cadence of 220/min, for moderate periods of time (10s of minutes). May be good aerobic exercise, but that's the same cadence as an Olympic sprinter, so to me, there is a very good reason it does not meet the formal definition a step, and should not be counted as such. 

[emili]

I am with Wendy. This needs to end. There are posts about this everywhere. You can all agree to disagree and stop the never ending debates. There is so much out there to do and see, let's not waste time going on and on about something that in the end doesn't matter. The point is to move and improve one's health. Go do that instead of posting about it.

[BruceBu]

"Go do that instead of posting about it."

I don't see why they have to be exclusive. And, by saying that in the end it doesn't matter, you have expressed your opinion on the subject and have posted about it; what business do you have telling us not to discuss something that interests us?

[GershonSurge]

Emili,

It seems like you are trying to restart something that already ended.

[CallieM]

Hello everyone!

To be quite frank, I think that tone of voice and intention can get a little misconstrued when talking over the internet. The nature of these forums can cause a lot of ambiguity. Thanks everyone for your opinions - the purpose of our Community Discussions is for sharing tips, tricks, stories, recipes, and help tips with other users. It's fine to discuss opinions on how you use your tracker, but please remember to keep this a positive space. 

Thanks everyone for your contributions and cooperation!

[LisaTBeck]

I do not understand why sometimes when I am on the elliptical the step counts align to the stride counts and other times they are off by a factor of 2.   It's the inconsistency that I question; especially when the rest of the workout is similar.   Can anyone explain this?  

[shipo]

@LisaTBeck, I would guess the difference is based upon your hand movement.

[glitterNfunk]

In my opinion, moving is good......if you moved more today than yesterday, you win!  : )

[USAF-Larry]

I have learned, @LisaTBeck, that if I twist my body as I step, it simulates the natural movement of walking or climbing and the tracker will count the steps.