Carb...less

[Rscunu]

I recently cut back the breads/pasta/rice/cereals from my daily routine and lost 2kg in 10 days.  I find it difficult to cut down my fruit consumptions, especially with it being apple harvesting season! 

I found some information suggesting the timing and combinations of foods, if I'm eating carbs, I should pair with protein and eat those earlier in the day.  So I'm now working that into my routine as well.

Has anyone found similar results to this? 

Is there a suggested carb intake? 20g 30g 40g?

Thanks in advance!!!

[JamieS_Wisco]

In general, I am against all "don't eat this" type diets.  I think all food should be enjoyed in moderation.  In my mind as soon as I make a food "evil", it's what I want.    If I use food as fuel, on average I tend to make wiser decisions about eating.  Tending to opt for whole grains, or carbs from veggies.   I do a 40% Protein, 40% Carbs and 20% Fat in relation to my total calorie count, or as close to that as I can get.  I don't mind a 5% leeway one way or another.  This doesn't work for all people, but it's working for me.  I do try to get the bulk of my carbs earlier in the day,  I guess without thinking about it I do eat most of my carbs in combination with protein, because all of my meals are packed with it.  I also do a lot of weight lifting.  Even with the amount of protein I take in, my last blood test showed me a little low.  So it goes to show that even I have to go back the the drawing board from time to time.

At the end of this week I will switch it up again, I am at the end of my 12 week weight lifting program and heading into a 2 week cardio only blast before I start a new program.  This means, theoretically, because I am not tearing the muscle down as badly the need for protein should not be as high.  Hopefully this will help me boost up my protein levels before the next 12 week program.

[Dominique]

A sharp initial weight loss is expected after you cut all or most carbs from your diet: carbs bind water in your glycogen in a 3:1 ratio. So most of the 2 kg you lost came from water, not fat. If you re-introduce carbs at a "normal" level, the water will come back.

Nutrient timing only plays a minor role in the hierarchy of fat loss, so you shouldn’t spend too much time thinking when eating your proteins, your carbs etc. What matters first are calories, macros come second and nutrient timing well behind.

Set yourself a protein goal. Add carbs and fat according to your personal preferences, within the total calories allowance required by your goal

[OCDOC]

Hi @Rscunu

Congrats on discovering that 'everything in moderation' is the way to go. Moderate carbohydrate consumption is about 100 grams. There is zero evidence anywhere that the body needs more than that amount.

If you are happy with a slow conversion to burning your body fat as a primary source of energy, then under 50g is probably necessary. If you want to be truly 'keto' ie being a dedicated fat-burner under 20g usually works (but it takes some discipline). Careful re overdoing protein..it's why Atkins was a bust for so many.

Lots of salads, green veg, avocados, nuts are the main carb sources. Add healthy fats..all good 🙂

I've not found any issue with 'timing'. The main thing is that LoCarb-Healthy fat seems to keep you full forever...I'm talking up to 24 hours before any hunger sets in.

Good luck, and enjoy the ride. R

[Rscunu]

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@Dominique wrote:

A sharp initial weight loss is expected after you cut all or most carbs from your diet: carbs bind water in your glycogen in a 3:1 ratio. So most of the 2 kg you lost came from water, not fat. If you re-introduce carbs at a "normal" level, the water will come back.

Set yourself a protein goal. Add carbs and fat according to your personal preferences, within the total calories allowance required by your goal

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I figured it was water weight, which was nice to not feel such bloat, but let's be honest, I want to lose fat! lol.  I'm not lifting heavy yet, I do a kettlebell routine 3 days a week.  I'm not sure how I should set up my macros, i.e. how much protein should I consume?

[Rscunu]

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@OCDOC wrote:

Hi @Rscunu

If you are happy with a slow conversion to burning your body fat as a primary source of energy, then under 50g is probably necessary. If you want to be truly 'keto' ie being a dedicated fat-burner under 20g usually works (but it takes some discipline). Careful re overdoing protein..it's why Atkins was a bust for so many.

Lots of salads, green veg, avocados, nuts are the main carb sources. Add healthy fats..all good 🙂

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Thank you!  I definitely know I'm not wanting to cut carbs completely, I think 50g is what I'll try for now.  I need my apple a day after all! 🙂 harvest season in Wisconsin, so apples are cheap and abundant. 

I do enjoy avocados, and snack usually consists of nuts and cheese ( ~9 almonds and 1 baby bell cheese)  or something to that effect. 

Again thank you for the feedback 🙂

[OCDOC]

@Rscunu  You sound very motivated; sounds like you will do well 🙂

Protein recommendations are always changing. 1 to 2 g per kilo body weight per day has been the guideline for years. Some people push this lower, especially if meat-eating is a problem (for any reason).

I'm ok with meat (as are my moderate ie 20 to 100g carb friends), and 1-2g/kg seems to be fine. The hard core under 20 carb people seem to aim for far less protein..they really hate insulin surges...

You will find a sweet spot; the best part is when your body chooses stored fat as it's main 'food group' and it really starts to melt away. 

All the best! Rob

[Ukase]

So much data out there - it's really tough to make sense of it all, particularly when there are so many sources of cheap carbs, and so few sources of healthy fats. 

I recommend that a "ketogenic" diet be started in phases. 

1. For two weeks - eliminate all sugary carbs not including fruit and starchy vegetables. So, no cookies, cakes, candy bars, chips, etc. Just stick to whole foods, regardless of their macros.

If you can do that for two weeks, then you can likely handle the next part which is to not eliminate fruit, but reduce your intake of it. Fruits are getting a bad rap sometimes because of the fructose they have - but they have a lot of other good stuff in them as well. You just can't go crazy eating 5 bananas at one setting. And like Dominique wrote (I think - can't see that page while typing this) you have to watch your protein intake, because too much of it and your liver converts it to glucose. What that threshold is for you, I have no idea. It would be different for everyone. Rule of thumb is, I believe, about 30 grams per meal.

And don't get too bogged down in your macros. You have to look at the micronutrient levels as well. If you don't get enough B vitamins, a lot of functions will not happen as they should, hormones will go out of whack and your progress is limited. The solution? For me, it's a multivitamin and a lot of label reading.

There's still a ton we don't know - and realize that Keto diets aren't for everyone.  

[Rscunu]

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@Ukase wrote:

You have to look at the micronutrient levels as well. If you don't get enough B vitamins, a lot of functions will not happen as they should, hormones will go out of whack and your progress is limited. The solution? For me, it's a multivitamin and a lot of label reading.

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I appreciate the feedback.  The hormones issue is why I'm ramping up and taking control of my life, I'm all in right now.

I just started taking Tamoxifen 2 weeks ago, and although I won't need Chemo, I have pretty much started to put my body into menopause at age 34.  Tamoxifen contains an estrogen blocking agent, I have a hormone positive receptor cancer mutation (not BRCA 1/BRCA2, but closely associated).  This medication's number one side effect is weight gain, besides the weight I already gained after knee injury, foot surgery, 1 chest surgery, and a partial mastectomy all over the last 5ish years. 

I need to make these changes and get healthier, though I'm a non smoker, rarely consume alcohol but the occasional glass of wine, I have always been overweight.  I need to be in shape, my oncologist said I better get into fighting shape!  lol I love him, he's like my best friend and super supportive, but also tells it like it is.  His goal for me is lose 10kg by the end of the year, so that's my goal!

[OCDOC]

@Rscunu 34 is such a young age; let's hope the negative BRCA testing and NO push for chemo/rads is a good omen 🙂  No doubt you are fully read-up on Tamox.

@Ukase makes a good point re a MVit; but make sure you review it w your doc re possible interactions..some vits have weird stuff in them. That being said I've not seen beriberi or scurvy for a while lol.

All the best, and enjoy the pleasure and success a healthy carb/ healthy fat diet will bring. R

[DanielleinDC]

Fruit is something you should eat. There are healthy carbs (fruits and whole grains, maybe starchy veggies) and not-so-healthy carbs (white bread, white pasta, candy, junk food). So go ahead and eat apples. They're yummy (except for those Red Delicious abominations), they're full of fiber, and they're good for you. Come winter, I'll be snacking on clementines in the morning.

Food combining. Lord, I hate that. I never believed it was any healthier than eating a sensible diet (which I am not great at, but I try). 

As for protein, a general rule is about 0.5 to 0.8 grams per pound of body weight a day. Athletes will lean toward the higher end of the range while those who are not so active maybe less.

[Rscunu]

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@DanielleinDC wrote:

Fruit is something you should eat. There are healthy carbs (fruits and whole grains, maybe starchy veggies) and not-so-healthy carbs (white bread, white pasta, candy, junk food). So go ahead and eat apples. They're yummy (except for those Red Delicious abominations), they're full of fiber, and they're good for you. Come winter, I'll be snacking on clementines in the morning.

Food combining. Lord, I hate that. I never believed it was any healthier than eating a sensible diet (which I am not great at, but I try). 

As for protein, a general rule is about 0.5 to 0.8 grams per pound of body weight a day. Athletes will lean toward the higher end of the range while those who are not so active maybe less.

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Agreed, I think sticking with a reduced intake would do me some good though!  50g seems like a reasonable goal.  I'm one of those people that would eat a bowl of pasta instead of a piece of triple chocolate layer cake. 

[Rscunu]

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@OCDOC wrote:

@Rscunu 34 is such a young age; let's hope the negative BRCA testing and NO push for chemo/rads is a good omen 🙂  No doubt you are fully read-up on Tamox.

All the best, and enjoy the pleasure and success a healthy carb/ healthy fat diet will bring. R

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I had my partial mastectomy at 28 to remove a T2a tumor, a reoccurance on the otherside that was 2 years later....I'm a pretty tough chick!   I have done my homework, so to speak, I have been working in healthcare for 13 years.  Nothing really prepares one for all this!  But there are some dietary changes to be made, no grapefruits, no tangerines, and avoid soy were the main rules as far as food goes.  Such a specific list!

[Dominique]

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@Rscunu wrote:

I'm not sure how I should set up my macros, i.e. how much protein should I consume?

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@Rscunu: see this other post of mine on protein intake recommendations. For people who are overweight, it’s often recommended to calculate protein intake based on target weight, not current weight. So someone who is currently 180 lbs, but would like to go down to 150 lbs, would base their protein intake on the lower weight.

Once you’ve obtained your protein intake (eg. 0.7 grams per lb of target weight), you can split the rest between carbs and fats the way you like, as long as the total amount of calories is where it needs to be for your weight loss goal.

The good thing about higher protein intake in a caloric deficit is that protein is quite satiating, so you will feel less hunger. 

[Rscunu]

This is super helpful, thank you so much!

[Dominique]

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@OCDOC wrote:

Moderate carbohydrate consumption is about 100 grams. There is zero evidence anywhere that the body needs more than that amount.

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The amount of carbs your body "needs" depends on your activity level. If you are a Tour de France rider or running a marathon, you won’t go very far on 100 grams of carbs. And if you know of a Tour de France rider or an elite marathon runner who follows a ketogenic diet, do tell me about them!

[shipo]

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@Dominique wrote:

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@OCDOC wrote:

Moderate carbohydrate consumption is about 100 grams. There is zero evidence anywhere that the body needs more than that amount.

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The amount of carbs your body "needs" depends on your activity level. If you are a Tour de France rider or running a marathon, you won’t go very far on 100 grams of carbs. And if you know of a Tour de France rider or an elite marathon runner who follows a ketogenic diet, do tell me about them!

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I sense you're thinking ketogenic diets and endurance athletes are mutually exclusive; if so I whole heartedly agree.  Keep the carbs too low and all manner of nasty things start happening, feeling faint and heart beat irregularities not the least among them.