Sourdough - Homemade, purchased, tips and tricks.

[JuanFitbit]

Our friends @Drumbob and @shipo , have shared some interesting information about home made sourdough. I moved your posts here, so that we keep the other thread related to the avocados. 

I love sourdough, but for me the main issue to do it at home is to keep the starter alive. 
I tend to forget to do those details, as to add water or a bit of flour on a daily basis. 

I loved the pictures that were shared and the looks of the bread. 

Hope to get more insights.  

[Drumbob]

We could do that. I think @shipo would have a lot of positive input and
sourdough experience to share. There are a lot of tutorials and info on
youtube. I was given some sourdough starter and went on from there.

[shipo]

---

@Drumbob wrote:
We could do that. I think @shipo would have a lot of positive input and
sourdough experience to share. There are a lot of tutorials and info on
youtube. I was given some sourdough starter and went on from there.

---

Yup, I'd be happy to contribute.  I obtained my sourdough starter a few years ago, and while I have no idea regarding the veracity of the claims, the person I got the starter from said her cultures date back to the 1849 gold rush.  What I can say is the starter is really robust and works with every type of grain I've thrown at it, Wheat, Spelt, Dark Rye, Einkorn, fine and coarse ground Semolina; it matters not, they all yield a very robust "sponge".

Here is some "French Bread" flour only a few hours into the initial ferment:

[Drumbob]

Jalapeño, cheddar sourdough This is a pickled jalapeno, cheddar, sourdough loaf. Sourdough is a fermented food with beneficial probiotics for your gut. 

[Drumbob]

Hey @shipo , that is so cool. I received some starter that was purchased 3 yrs. ago from King Arthur's flour which goes back a couple hundred years. The mother starter that is. Amazing to think about all the people that's been fed from the same starter. Great picture of the fermentation bubbles. One tip I read was to watch the bubbles not the clock in regard to bulk fermentation and when to shape the dough. 

[shipo]

@Drumbob, yeah, when I started the whole sourdough thing I watched the clock, now..., yeah, some times 10 hours is enough to get a good sponge, sometimes over 30 hours.  

[Drumbob]

sourdoughHere's a sourdough loaf I baked today and made the dough yesterday. It has 300 grams of bread flour, 50 grams of spelt flour, 50 grams of white whole wheat flour, and 50 grams of all purpose flour. It also has 375 grams of water, and 10 grams of fine sea salt. The bulk fermentation was about 6 hours at 79 deg. and a cold proof in the fridge for 16 hrs. I also used 100 grams of starter at 100 % hydration. Can't wait to taste it!

[shipo]

@Drumbob, looks awesome!  I started getting into using bannetons a couple of months ago, but what with my new job and the accident I had in July, I simply haven't had the time to make beautiful loaves, and as such, have reverted back to the nice and simple Dutch Oven approach to baking.  Hopefully when things calm down a bit this fall I can start using my bannetons and the Challenger Bread Pan I purchased early this summer again.

[Drumbob]

Thanks man, I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you and hope you are
fully recovered. I have a Lodge cast iron Dutch oven that I use and a round
and oval banneton. I find using the oval banneton or batard shape I get
better oven spring then a boule. That's great you have a Challenger bread
pan. I want one and I bet I end up getting one. Is it worth it? I'm retired
so I have the time and look forward to baking each week.
Take care

[shipo]

The accident was back in mid-July and chronicled here on this thread: https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Get-Moving/Get-Keep-Moving-but-beware-of-dogs/td-p/4909927/jump-to/f...

While not fully recovered, and will not be for up to a year (per my neurologist), I am recovering well enough to have started slow jogging (slogging?) last week, but yeah, that very hilly 10-mile race I was going to run this Saturday, not going to happen.  😛

I almost bought the Lodge Dutch Oven before I found the Challenger, I only had a chance to bake in it five or six times before I was attacked, but I very much enjoyed using it, and my last few loaves were looking promising.

As for being retired, I'm of retirement age, but after a couple of small business failures, one each for my wife and myself, I figure I'll be working into my early 70s; the good news is I love what I do and am making good money doing it, so even if I didn't need to work, I'd probably be doing exactly what I'm doing right now.  🙂

[Drumbob]

Hey @shipo, good for you to run past the house again, that takes some brass ... lets just say intestinal fortitude. Good luck on your recovery! That's a real blessing you make good $$ and love what you're doing. Take care

[shipo]

Hey @JuanFitbit, keeping the starter alive was one of my original hesitations as well; the good news is some starters, including the one I have, can be kept in the refrigerator without feeding for up to six months, and the longer you go between feedings, the more sour it gets.  These days I keep somewhere between a quart and a half-gallon (1 to 2 liters) of starter, and then burn it down at the rate of about 2/3 cups (0.1576 liters or 181 grams) per week, and then feed the starter once a month or so.

[JuanFitbit]

@shipo Thank you for your insights. I was looking into a lot of videos an reading about it. And most of them mentioned that the started needs to be fed every day. As you mentioned, a lot of them can be kept refrigerated, it's tempting to get my hand on some starter. 

On college I worked on a bakery 3 sommers long. Mostly on sales or small bread making, but had not much to do with sourdough.
This could be my time for redemption. 

I'll research a bit more, but please keep sharing your insights. 

[shipo]

Here is my "secret" ingredient; this is the starter I began with back on April of 2020: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ODHRCDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00

If you go with this starter, it takes, or at least it took me, four or five weeks before I was able to get a lively "sponge", since then, this stuff has proven to be so robust I've put some in a baggy and sent it via the U.S.P.S. and it wakes right up starts producing bread almost immediately.

[Drumbob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Sm_4rvEMI

Thanks @JuanFitbit , and @shipo , check this link out. It's how to make a lame (French for blade) that you use to score the sourdough with before baking. The same type of lame retail for over $30. I think I'm going to hit Lowe's today. It looks easy to make. I'm thinking the round plastic container that electrical tape comes in would make a great case.

 Take care

[Drumbob]

Hey @JuanFitbit , Rye is a superfood to feed your starter, it helps make it strong. Also feeding your starter at a 1-10-10 ratio will really help to strengthen your starter. That translates to 5 grams starter, 50 grams flour, 50 grams water. I keep my starter in the fridge and feed it once a week. Works fine. I use a small oven thermometer, a lot of home ovens aren't calibrated correctly. I use a Kenmore elite electric oven, it has a upper oven and a lower oven. Came with the house, a decent oven but it says the oven has reached the final temp. of 500 degrees and the stand alone oven therm. shows it's really 410 degrees. It will get up to 500 but it takes another 20 minutes. If I want to cook at 350 I need to set the oven at 360 and watch the small oven thermometer, they cost less then $20. Could save on the frustration factor. I think it's important to use a food scale to weigh your ingredients. Different flours weigh differently. The same type flour from a different bag weighs different. I always use bottled spring water. I've had my share of disappointing loaves but the good part, besides learning, is they all taste good.   Stay strong, bake on

[Drumbob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kstk0C3m8M&t=641s

Hey @JuanFitbit  and anybody else that's interested. I made and baked my first sourdough loaf following this tutorial... and it worked! Clear, concise, and easy to follow direction.

[shipo]

@Drumbob, I have the luxury of living on a farm and having very good well water, so no need for bottled water.  🙂

On the measuring/weighing front, I was taught to do it by volume and then adjust either the water or the flour as necessary during kneading.  With the exception of the pumpernickel loaf I posted a picture of in the other thread, the recipe I use is 2 cups of water and 5 cups of flour (plus extra as needed) broken out as follows:

• Sponge mix the following:
  • 2/3-cup starter (at a 50/50 ratio by volume)
  • 2-cups water (2.5 cups water when making pumpernickel)
  • 2-cups flour
  • allow to ferment until the volume grows to maximum and then starts to recede
• Dough prep:
  • 1.5 cups flour -- Thoroughly mix into the Sponge
  • Autolyse for 45-minutes to 1-hour
  • 1.5 cups flour -- Thoroughly mix into dough
  • Knead, adding flour as needed, until dough attains desired consistency (this is a learned "touch" thing which isn't easily described in writing)
• 1st Proof:
  • Place dough in refrigerator (or cold root cellar or cold hay loft) for up to two weeks
• 2nd Proof
  • IMHO, this is where the "art" of baking comes in, I have yet to meet two sourdough bakers who use the same procedure once the dough gets to the "2nd Proof" stage.
  • If I'm pressed for time I simply re-knead the dough which reduces it's volume considerably, drop it into a lightly oiled bowl or proofing dish, wait for the dough to double (at least) in size, and dump it into a preheated Dutch Oven for the bake

A few notes for anybody trying to bake sourdough bread for the first time:

• Your first few attempts will probably fail; do not get discouraged; the results of my first few attempts yielded a mass which was only useful for weighing down a fresh trash can liner as I lowered it into the trash can.
• I strongly recommend using a classic "Bread Flour" for all your sourdough training; once you get the hang of that and a "feel" for what works, branching out into combinations of flours (say bread flour and whole wheat flour) and harder to use flours (say Dark Rye, Rice, or coarse ground Semolina) would be my next recommended step.

[Drumbob]

I agree, especially about starting with all bread flour. I didn't do that
and ended up with some pancake loaves. I really did learn to let the dough
tell me what it needs but it took me a while to learn and it's totally
worth it.