Struggling to exercise on low-carb / keto

[Daves_Not_Here]

Looking for any advice from those who have adapted to ketosis:  I have been eating very low-carb / keto during the week for weight loss, and adding carbs back in on Friday to support strenuous cardio activity (cycling with hill climbing) on Saturday and Sunday.  This works pretty well - I have plenty of energy on the weekend.  

The problem is I don't experience the supposed benefits of ketosis (energy and mental alertness) during the week, and I suspect it is because I don't stay in ketosis more than 4 days at a time.  So I've been experimenting with trying to stay in ketosis through the weekends.  So last weekend, I went out on a bike ride in the heat and nearly bonked so I pulled into a restaurant and had an emergency bowl of grits.

Today, I tried it again on low carbs -- I went out cycling for about 80 minutes.  Normally, it only takes me about 5 minutes to get warmed up to full energy.  Today, I continued to have the blahs and almost turned around after 30 minutes.  But, finally my energy kicked in and I finished strong.

Is this normal?  If I continue to stick with it, does exercising get easier?  How long does it take to get the boost of mental energy?

[Daves_Not_Here]

@SunsetRunner - great advice.  That's how I knew something was off -- I wasn't up for a beer, which is highly unusual for me.  Good recommendation to watch these things carefully -- in Southern California, we occasionally lose a mountain-biker due to heat stroke. 

[dmarieski]

I've  been doing  keto for 2 months. I actually  lost  too much weight  and muscle. So I increased  my calories and started  resistance strength  training. 

Can you tell me what you ate, if anything, before  this  workout? And what you ate after (protein?)

I've  read it's  better to workout in a fasted state  and also read to eat 1 rice cake for carbs and energy. I have a 45 mile hike coming  up in a month. I need to get keto ready!

[Dominique]

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@dmarieskiwrote:

I've  read it's  better to workout in a fasted state

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It’s a myth that needs to be debunked: there’s no particular benefit in working out in a fasted state. You may burn more body fat during the actual workout, but on the net balance, fat loss will be determined by your caloric deficit over 24 hours (or even longer).

If you plan to do resistance training, it’s actually a bad idea to train fasted, as you will have less energy and therefore get less out of your workout.

Generally speaking, nutrient timing (e.g. meal frequency) only plays a minor role, so it’s a better idea to focus on what matters most, calories and macronutrients.

[TheMonk]

@dmarieski I'm glad to here you are working hard and the weight loss is up
to so. It is expected to loss a little muscle while on strict diet. I'm on
modified keto ( more stricter , similar to Duken diet). Your protien is the
major fighter to keep your muscle mass, and full body strength exercise
minimum twice a week is important. I do two/three weight lifting , one
HIIT, one power pump and one soccer(75 min cardio) a week. I only faced
sluggish on my first few weeks on key, then my body get to used to fueling
fat while on exercise though recovery from exercise (little sore muscle)
takes longer than before.
Three things that works perfect for my workout are;
1. I take creatine protein before intense repetitive workout. It helps to
moblize fat and get burned.
2. I will add more green leaves/vegi on my prework out meal. (1-3 hours)
and may be protien shake/bar (both lean <4gm carb, fibers don't count as
carb).
3. Lighter but more repition(15 or more pump) on workouts, I don't lift
heavier weight as usual since it hurts after workout due to restricted carb
in the system.
I did lost muscle in some weeks but overall I gained muscle mass in
comparison to my current weight I'm(197lb from 222 lb). I start to see more
muscle definition for first time in my life.
If you are doing intensive workout like 2 hrs or more I would say take
sone complex carb (at most 25 to 50 gm )before work out. You will still
back to keep immediately as it will get burned right away during workout.

Everyone of us are different. I hope this might help you.

[Dominique]

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@TheMonkwrote:
1. I take creatine protein before intense repetitive workout. It helps to
moblize fat and get burned.

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There is no such thing as "creatine protein", unless you mix the two together. There’s creatine (usually in the form of creatine monohydrate) and there’s protein (e.g. whey or pea protein, if consumed as a supplement), two separate things. Creatine is a well-researched supplement and it’s one of the few that actually works. However, I’m not aware it has any fat mobilizing/burning effects. It does have a positive effect when performing resistance training, but that effect is very limited, something like 2-3%. Not something you would "feel" when lifting weights, for instance. Examine.com is a very thorough (and unbiaised) source of information on supplements.

[Mukluk4]

3. Lighter but more repition(15 or more pump) on workouts, I don't lift
heavier weight as usual since it hurts after workout due to restricted carb
in the system.
I did lost muscle in some weeks but overall I gained muscle mass in
comparison to my current weight I'm(197lb from 222 lb). I start to see more
muscle definition for first time in my life.

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Just because you see definition, does not mean you are gaining muscle mass.  Especially if you are dropping 25 pounds of overall weight.

Point #3 is the biggest reason I wouldn't touch a Keto diet.  I'd prefer to lift the back end of a small car for 5 reps (and so do the ladies that comment on my physique) than mucking about with smaller weights for more reps as it translates better to the physical activities that I take part in (and most measures of fitness).  

[TheMonk]

Can Keto Actually Work For Hard-Training Endurance or Power/Strength
Athletes?

Https://www.marksdailyapple.com/can-keto-actually-work-for-hard-training-endurance-or-powerstrength-...

[Dominique]

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@TheMonkwrote:
Can Keto Actually Work For Hard-Training Endurance or Power/Strength
Athletes?

Https://www.marksdailyapple.com/can-keto-actually-work-for-hard-training-endurance-or-powerstrength-...

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Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be done, or it’s the optimal way to do things. For instance, you can ask the question: can you run a marathon backwards? The answer is yes: http://running.competitor.com/2018/03/features/boston-backwards_169941 If you want to make a point (as with this guy: raising money and awareness for epilepsy), that’s fine, but that doesn’t change the fact running backwards isn’t nearly as efficient as regular running.

Same with endurance and strength sports: yes, you can perform at a decent level using fat as your main fuel, but you’ll always be at a disadvantage compared to someone fueling on carbs. I’ll swallow my hat the day someone on keto wins the the Tour de France or the Olympics in shot put.

[Daves_Not_Here]

@Dominique - I don't think you will need to consume hat just yet, but this article on Chris Froome's nutrition strategy is pretty interesting.  Not only did low-carb eating help get him to race weight, it appeared to improve his performance in the presence of carbs.  Yes, he carbs up for races, but his low-carb / keto training regimen seems to strengthen him in comparison with his more conventional competition.

From the article:  James Morton, the current head of nutrition for team Sky, summed up the basics: “In our research at Liverpool John Moores University, we now know that deliberately restricting carbs around carefully chosen training sessions can actually enhance training adaptations. But then of course we must ensure higher carbohydrate intakes for key training sessions and hard stages in racing. I believe this concept of periodising daily carbohydrate intake is the most exciting part of sports nutrition in the last decade.”

I'm certainly not a competitive athlete, but I've noticed the following effect:  I can eat a slight amount of carbs before exercise, get higher initial energy, but I no longer bonk or need to eat hours in.  I just completed back to back 8 hour ski days closing down the lifts:  the only carbs I ate were avocado and greens for breakfast and beer at night.  Skipped lunch both days except for drinking electrolytes.

[SunsetRunner]

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@Dominiquewrote:

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Carbs don’t make you fat, excess calories (in relation to your activity level) do.  

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Yes and no.  There is a direct correlation between high GI carbohydrates and obesity/diabetes.  This is due to the way your body processes large amounts of glucose.  If glucose isn't burned off, it is turned into fat rather quickly.  Low GI foods on the other hand, take longer to be absorbed into the blood stream allowing the body more time to burn them off before the excess glucose is turned into fat.

[Dominique]

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:

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@Dominiquewrote:

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Carbs don’t make you fat, excess calories (in relation to your activity level) do.  

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Yes and no.  There is a direct correlation between high GI carbohydrates and obesity/diabetes.  This is due to the way your body processes large amounts of glucose.  If glucose isn't burned off, it is turned into fat rather quickly.  Low GI foods on the other hand, take longer to be absorbed into the blood stream allowing the body more time to burn them off before the excess glucose is turned into fat.

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Correlation and causation are two different things. A person doesn’t get obese and/or diabetic from eating carbohydrates (regardless of GI). The chain of events is: people eat an excessive amount of calories (usually from all macronutrients, not just carbs) in relation to their activity level; over time, they will become overweigtht, then obese; as they become fatter, their insulin sensitivity decreases, to the point they may become (again, over time) pre-diabetic, then diabetic. At that stage, consuming high GI carbs is not a good idea, because they are no longer equiped (can’t produce enough insulin) to deal with a spike of glucose in the blood. But to say that obesity/diabetes is caused by high GI carbs simply isn’t true.

Body weight is regulated by energy balance. You say glucose is turned into fat quickly: what happens at a given time of the day doesn’t matter (from the point of view of permanent fat gains). What matters is whether or not the energy expended over 24 hours (or 7 days, or a longer period) matches your caloric intake. I just had a hefty breakfast (because I tend to be hungry in the morning), but I’m going to sit all morning in front of my computer (because this is what I do for a living). Even accounting from the energy spent since my last meal yesterday, calories from my breakfast will still exceed the low expenditure from sitting in front of the computer, and some of the excess calories will be temporarily stored as fat. If I’m active later on in the day, as I usually am, these calories will be burned off.

[EdwardMGoldberg]

Salt and NOT sugar/carbs are your friend when doing work with your body.   Exercise HUNGRY.   Reload your SALT storage before you work out.   Salt your water with a good mix of minerals ( NO SUGAR ).

Before you workout,  eat a pickle ( or two, or three ... ).   Drink to taste with mineral rich water.

On KETONES I have found that warm up can take a bit longer.  For me 30 min.  of very genital walking works.   Then on to the HIT (  hard interval training ).   

I have had ZERO "carbs" ( in fact about 20-30 a day ) now for a year.   You do not NEED any carbs.   Fat is a better source of energy than sugar,  and lasts longer.

So next time:

1) Load up on FAT 12 hr before.  work out hungry.
2) Load up on SALT when you remove sugar,  you NEED the salt on KETO.

3) After your work out,  skip the food,  meditate and enjoy the high.

GOALS:   Zero Carbs!

I lost 100 lb in one year.  I am NO LONGER a diabetic taking drugs to stay alive.   My costs are down $1,000.00 a month,  the drugs are not cheap! 

[Dominique]

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@EdwardMGoldberg wrote:

GOALS:   Zero Carbs!

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Does it mean you have decided to go entirely without fruits and veggies?

[EdwardMGoldberg]

The Keto research and my own experience show this is not correct,  I have no need for ANY Carbs.   I have eaten almost zero carbs for a year and have lots of energy.   I work out 2-3 hr. a day ( retired people have lots of time. ).

If you just replace your need for CARBS with the need for Calories you would be on a better path.   You need to eat Calories for your body to function.   Fat is a better and more dense form of food and caloric intake.  Yes,  the start up speed is a bit slower.  But over the long haul,  you have more energy stored in FAT than Sugars.

For these ideas to apply you MUST be in 100% Keystones for MANY months.   The clear head and lack of hunger pain is worth the trip.

BTW:  I lost 130 lb over one year.   Stronger now than I have ever been.

[EdwardMGoldberg]

I eat no foods that are HIGH in carbs.

No tree Fruit,  some berry's are OK in small amounts. 

TONS of veg.   I like Cabbage and all of the bitter veg.

Lots of fiber in my Veg and never a hint in sugar.  Add all of the butter you want!