Fitbit Ionic vs Garmin VivoActive 3 (and other Garmin devices)

[pedris]

There is already a community thread comparing the Ionic to the new Apple Watch, so I thought it might be useful to look of the pros and cons of the Garmin Vivoactive 3 in comparison.

Also, over the last few months, I've been looking at either the Garmin Forerunner 735XT or 935 as a possible replacement for my Surge. (And yes - I do realise that they, the Forerunner 935 in particular, are in a different price category to the Ionic!)

Which would you go for any why?

[SunsetRunner]

It's hard to say considering the Vivoactive 3 is quite new. I have been using a Garmin Fenix 5 in tandem with Fitbit lately so I can only give my opinion from the Fenix perspective.

Garmin in general have been more a hardcore fitness tracker with less of the gorgeous screens and bells and whistles of full-fledged smartwatches, at least the more expensive watches. These are for people who want to know EVERYTHING about stuff. You need a dictionary/lexicon just to figure out what exactly half of the stuff the watch is recording is. I'm assuming the VA3 will be a more softcore version of the more expensive trackers, with more of the above bells and whistles from Samsung/Apple etc smartwatches.

Now Fitbit have been more of a socially oriented/community tracker with an awesome app. (btw many don't like Garmin's app, but they have released a new beta version which I like a lot better. However it's still a long shot from Fitbit if you like challenges, doing stuff with friends, and just 'having fun with fitness') However Fitbits is less 'hardcore' with it's stuff. They haven't really had a 'real' smartwatch so far so I'm expecting the Ionic to be a continuation of their current approach to trackers, with extra smartwatch stuff thrown in, and future capabilities for app development, etc etc.

Myself I'd sum it up as TL;DR,

Garmin if you want to cram every sweat drop out of your body and maximize your effort/reward, but don't care about the social aspect. If you do fitness for yourself and don't mind doing it by yourself. (also the high tier watches are WAY expensive)

Fitbit if you want to have fun with challenges and friends, maybe want to put in effort but don't neccesarily want to go 110% at it. If you want to lose weight rather than pure training for the sake of training. But this is just my opinion, take it or leave it!

[USAF-Larry]

Since I don't try to compare the Fitbit to the Garmin, I'd probably go with the Ionic - it would continue to work with all my data in the Fitbit app & Dashboard.

[pedris]

Thanks, @USAF-Larry. What happened to @SunsetRunner's input on the topic?

[USAF-Larry]

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@pedris wrote:

Thanks, @USAF-Larry. What happened to @SunsetRunner's input on the topic?

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No idea, I don't have anything to do with other's posts, but I didn't see any other posts to this thread.

[pedris]

Sorry, @USAF-Larry, didn't mean to direct the question at you. Here is what he wrote: 

[willgilliland]

I purchased the VivoActive 3 yesterday at Best Buy only after they said I could return it if it didn't work for me.  I have a Windows 10 Mobile phone (Lumia 950XL)  and have concerns of Garmin's support for their Connect app in Windows 10 Mobile.  Fitbit has been an ardent supporter and developer of Windows 10 Mobile and wouldn't even consider the Garmin product, except I can't find the Ionic available anywhere.  I purchased the VivoActive 3 and opened the box in the store.  The VivoActive 3 paired with the Garmin Connect app fairly easily.  ... so far so good.  I left the store and fully charged the watch on the way home.  That's when things started to unravel.

Syncing with my Lumia 950XL was flakey at best.  The app says it syncs, but nothing changes.  The software update wouldn't transfer to the VivoActive 3.  The watch faces would never transfer.  Even activity metrics would not consistently transfer.

I temporarily connected the VivoActive 3 to an old Galaxy S4.  Things now worked.  Now with the software updated in the VivoActive 3, I decided to repair it with the Lumia 950XL.  This time did not go as easy as the first time.  After fiddling for 15 minutes, I was able to get it repaired again.  However, my experience was the same.  Bad syncs.

I took the VivoActive 3 for a 20 mile bike ride.  I was hoping the VivoActive 3 would transfer my heartrate to the Garmin Connect app.  I was also hoping the Garmin Connect app would have a biking app with map, time and distance metrics and include heartrate from the VivoActive 3., right?  Well that will remain fantasy.  I used a Windows 10 Mobile app as the cycle computer AND the VivoActive 3 co-tracking in bike mode.  Now I have two sets of data (which compared well) but I don’t need two sets of data.

As a VivoActive 3 owner I would say get it if:

• Like round-shaped trackers
• Are already in the Garmin ecosystem
• Can’t wait for the Ionic

I would buy the Ionic if:

• You have a Windows 10 Mobile phone
• Are in the Fitbit ecosystem
• Want more simplistic, easier to use controls
• Want Music on your tracker

[bbarrera]

@pedris Between the two I would choose the Vivoactive 3 for the following reasons:

+ always on display

+ better battery life (7 days vs 4 days; GPS of 13 hours vs 10 hours)

+ waypoint navigation (I would use while hiking)

+ supports skiing and cycling, my two favorite sports

+ treadmill distance calibration with or without foot pod

+ real golf app for distance estimation so you can choose best club

+ counts reps while weight-lifting (I hope they add weight workout planning to Garmin Connect)

+ broadcast HR to my bike computer (via ANT+)

+ not just simple activity tracking, watch and dashboards have actual performance metrics

+ better smartwatch features

+ flip watch around if my wrist starts pressing the button

As always there is a helpful "need to know" over at DCRainmaker:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/08/garmin-vivoactive-3-everything-you-need-to-know.html

I've seen screenshots of the new Garmin Connect app that is coming next month or two. The new app will provide a better top-level summary of fitness and health metrics, while retaining all the useful metrics I use to track performance improvements (training hard) and declines (taking time off). 

[bbarrera]

Simplifying it, for people that don't care about geeky stuff like more detailed walk/run/swim/bike/weightlifting data, broadcasting HR to gym equipment, and sensor support. I think it comes down to:

Fitbit Ionic

+ if you are step challenge addict then you will only buy Fitbit activity trackers, so stop reading

+ music without phone

+ you think Fitbit app is superior, despite the fact you can't answer simple activity tracking questions that are easy to answer in Garmin Connect app

Garmin Vivoactive 3

+ always on display

+ better battery life

+ actual support for golf, skiing, cycling with cadence/speed sensor, and navigating back to saved waypoint while hiking

+ LiveTrack: my wife can follow my ride on a map

+ text response (Android only)

Garmin app store has been around for over two years, there are already a bunch of apps available:

https://apps.garmin.com/en-GB/devices/vivoactive3/apps

[datalore]

Like lots of things it comes down to personal taste. If you're a serious endurance athlete, or want detailed performance metrics garmin is for you. Garmin does the best job of tracking sports and it isn't even close. Apple and fitbit are miles behind garmin. The truth is garmin makes a specific product for a very specific audience and while there may be some overlap with fitbit customers that overlap is minimal. I view them as 2 different products for 2 different audiences. It depends on which audience you're in. I'm going with fitbit simply out of personal taste; I like the app and I find garmins app clunky and not well designed, but again personal taste. I also like the fact that I can create my own apps for the ionic and have one in mind already. I have programming experience and the fact that the SDK is open really excites me. The app I'm going to create will only appeal to one half of one percent of the population. It's cool that I get to do that and just share that app with my friends with no hassle from fitbit. The open SDK is fitbits secret weapon.

[bbarrera]

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@datalore wrote:

Garmin does the best job of tracking sports and it isn't even close.

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Agree. It also does a great job tracking basic activities just like Fitbit. And almost 2x battery life (w/o GPS) because that seems to be a real concern on these forums. Plus the always on display that some love. All at the exact same price. Pretty compelling story for Vivoactive 3.

Fitbit app or web dashboard can't answer the most basic of ***activity tracking*** questions like "how many miles did I run last week, last month, and last 12 months?" And it certainly can't answer that question for swimming or cycling.

Fitbit app looks attractive, I love the layout and colors. LOL, and to borrow your own phrase the truth is Fitbit makes a specific product for a very specific audience and given you are training for a swim event (or triathlon?) I'm surprised you can't see past the veneer of the app.

I realize this is a Fitbit forum, and my point-of-view is hard for many to understand. I'm not trying to be combative, but lets call it like it is. Heck I still want Fitbit to deliver on the multi-sport marketing promises and keep coming back looking for a reason to buy another tracker. Until then I'll use MobileTrack as my Fitbit tracker.

[Gray406]

The Garmin VivoActive3 wins in appearance.

[datalore]

As I said I have a programming background and the reason I'm going for the ionic is I can create my own apps and make this watch work the way I want. We have a saying in programming: there are horses for courses. With the open SDK I will have much more control over my data than garmin or fitbit currently deliver. Granted the SDK has to live up to it's promise, but if it does this will be the watch for me. Since they use Javascript, CSS, and SVG I can hack the ionic and make it do whatever I want and there is no review process from fitbit unless I want to put it on the app gallery which I won't because my app will only be for a few people. I don't say that like my app will be groundbreaking; it will just be something that only a particular type of athlete will need or want. The fact that I can create that makes the fitbit software the clear winner for me. Again I'm assuming the SDK will live up to the hype, but what I've seen so far looks promising. https://dev.fitbit.com

[datalore]

LOL, you thought I was talking about the app? My post did say app when I should have said software for the sake of clarity; though they are the same thing. The open SDK is why I'll buy an ionic. Javascript, SVG, and CSS mean this watch will be  customizable to a degree we haven't seen since pebble. There are API's out there now that will let me easily see weekly and monthly totals of all exercises even swimming. I just need them to send me the e-mail that the SDK is live. The app I'm creating won't be groundbreaking it will simply not appeal to 99.9% of fitbit or garmin users; the fact that I can create my own app just for me and a group of friends is a selling point. https://studio.fitbit.com

https://dev.fitbit.com

[bbarrera]

@datalore My issue is that Fitbit sells a capability that really doesn't exist. This isn't about using a 3rd party to get the info. Here are a couple of screenshots of Fitbit webpage on the app:

I have a daily goal for cycling mileage, how come I can't view progress toward that goal? Why can't I view mileage trend over time? Same for running. And swimming. And walking for exercise.

Only true if "exercise stats" are duration/calories. And I have no clue how to see that my performance is improving.

Fitbit has failed to deliver on these marketing promises for years. This is very disappointing, the app is fun but shallow even though the data is on Fitbit servers. Simply no explanation for why 'the fitness leader' can't provide simple answers to questions easily answered by Garmin Connect Mobile and Apple Health. 

Fitbit, give me a reason to buy another tracker!

[datalore]

It looks like you're right in the center of garmin's target market. Since I started training for this swim I was ready to put away my charge 2 and go with garmin. I agree with you actually that fitbit can and should do a better job of tracking exercise and exercise trends across time. I think that just may be a feature and not a bug. I think fitbit should, in most cases, be called a wellness device rather than a tracker, but that's semantics.  As I said what keeps me in the fitbit ecosystem is that SDK. I already have a clear picture of what I'm going to do with this watch and I've started on one app just using some JavaScript libraries. Fitbit has actually created the ultimate smartwatch for someone like me anyway. I know I don't represent the market, but I can program and I like to hack my devices; no other platform lets you do that. I was a big pebble guy, but the truth is they didn't manage the company well and they didn't expand outside of the geeks like me. I predict that what will happen in the long run is Apple will own the smartwatch market while Garmin will own the serious athlete market and Fitbit will offer a best of both worlds solution. I think the smartwatch market can support all 3 companies. I understand and share your frustrations with the limitations of the fitbit devices, but it looks like, at least for my needs, these limitations will be addressed. I don't mind doing my own thing, but I'm that guy that builds his own computers, so there's that. 

[Swim-Bike-Run]

I would agree, Garmin's platform was originally created for more hardcore fitness users. However, they have added 'socially oriented/community' features recently. You can now set up challenges with other friends on the Garmin platform.

On a side note, I did see that Garmin allows you to import your Fitbit data if you did choose to switch platforms and wanted to keep all of your data. - https://connect.garmin.com/modern/import-data

[bbarrera]

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@datalore wrote:

I agree with you actually that fitbit can and should do a better job of tracking exercise and exercise trends across time. 

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@datalore See the screenshots I posted, Fitbit claims they do stuff that I can't find. Thats why I keep hoping they deliver on marketing promises. Seriously the SDK talk is getting old, and doesn't address the 22 million active users on Flex/Charge/Blaze/etc trackers. They aren't getting any apps.

I'm excited about Ionic app development too, but Ionic isn't the ultimate device and you can be sure Fitbit will release a 2nd generation smartwatch likely with microphone and speaker for even more  interactivity. Have you looked at SDK? A lot of room for improvement. I'm an engineer and have been doing free app development on my AW for two years now. My background is C/C++ on Unix/Linux, would rather see another language, more complete APIs, and WYSIWYG IDE, but nothing wrong with Fitbit SDK going JS/CSS/SVG.

[SiGr]

I honestly looked at the Vivo 3.  Having tried a few garmins and being a staunch Edge user for cycling all I can say is after years of being a garmin user their support is utter junk, the hr sensors when not using a strap are utterly pointless (although I've not tried the new one, it could be better than the fenix 3 I had) and they keep dicking with the algo's behind stats.  

If you have more than one garmin keeping simple things like weight and hr profiles across devices without it messing up is a pain.  Connect is absolute junk of an app and web site (for cycling its not too bad but when i have the fenix 3 it was terrible compared to fitbit).  I had massive issues with the hr sensor being so poor it really messed up all the stats, 5,000 kCals sat at a desk for five hours anyone?

Maybe in the last year they've sorted themselves out but I 100% don't think they have enough to make me go through the pain fest that is using a Garmin watch again.  

That said it really does look a million times better than the block fest that is the Ionic.  I'm waiting on seeing the Ionic in the flesh to decide if I like it enough to pay 150 quid more for GPS (everything else is nice but on board GPS is the only thing I actually want). Connected GPS on the Charge 2 I have now and the Blaze I returned is really hit and miss and I loved loved loved the Surge until it needed replacing 4 times in 7 months.

If the build quality on the Ionic is good and it looks better in the flesh I'll probably go for it.  I really miss the surge, it was a super device when not falling apart every time.

Hope this help,

a guy that has spend a year hunting for a fitness/smart watch that does what the marketing blurb claims 🙂

[bbarrera]

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@datalore wrote:

It looks like you're right in the center of garmin's target market.  

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@datalore I'm not. During the day I like staying in the moment, and quickly using my smartwatch instead of pulling out phone and getting distracted. That is far more important to me than having 24x7 HR or sleep tracking from my wrist. I've tried both and its just more data that doesn't help me stay fit.

After spending years with Fitbit, and trying out a lot of other fitness platforms, what I've found that works well is 1) use the best app for a particular sport or workout or analysis, 2) Apple Health rolls app data up into a nice summary, and 3) because Watch connects with Health, I can do things like leave Watch at home and take epic 8+ hour bike rides in the mountains and still get activity credit on my Watch. Or use Sleep Cycle on my phone as an alarm clock and it feeds into Health (app does a surprisingly good job at sleep/wake/snoring). Now Health doesn't have the nicely laid out rings like in Fitbit app - Health uses tiles instead - however on every one of those tiles I can drill down with a tap and see weekly/monthly/yearly trends. Plus Health lets me pick different favorite tiles, so if I'm taking a break from riding and don't need as many carbs I can use MyFitnessPal and easily track carbs in Health. Its all about being able to focus on a few things that matter.

I happen to have a reliable Garmin bike computer (might buy Wahoo if starting over). Based on that experience and a favorable review at DCRainmaker, I'd give the Vivoactive 3 a chance, it natively supports skiing and golf (I've got cycling covered already) and worst case it feeds data into Health.

I've had positive experiences with Fitbit (except for the bands on Flex/Force/Surge), but Fitbit doesn't play nice with my bike computer or strength training apps or Health. Another annoyance - why do I have to use MyFitnessPal to get current weight from Aria scale into Health? Does Fitbit really want me to avoid using the Fitbit app?