Ionic GPS stopped working

[PunzunLtd]

I have an Ionic from around October 2018. The GPS has worked mostly OK since I got it, with a couple of hiccups.

Since June 15th the GPS hasn't worked at all. Today, for example, my phone's GPS debugging tool showed 13/21 sats visible and locked in 2 seconds. My Ionic didn't lock any time during a 36-minute walk.

As far as I know, nothing about the hardware, firmware, or software has changed.

Troubleshooting info:

- The sky condition does not matter. Clear, cloudy, rain; all the same.

- The battery charge does not matter. 100%, 20%, no difference.

- Rebooting the phone doesn't help.

- Rebooting the Ionic doesn't help.

- Turning off "Set Network Time" doesn't help.

- Turning on or off "All day sync" doesn't help.

I also went through the Forum and read all the other reports of Ionic GPS chips failing.

One thing I did notice is that my phone's clock today was 2 seconds behind GPS. That could indicate a problem with the provider's timing signals. GPS is sensitive to time, but usually 2 seconds will only cause a cold fix, which should take only a minute. My Ionic matched the network time. FWIW, I'm on T-Mobile in Chicago.

Is there any way to debug the GPS directly? I'll try writing an app to see if I can diagnose through the API.

But this is incredibly frustrating. I want my GPS to work, especially if I'm walking or hiking through interesting places.

Moderator edit: Subject for clarity 

[RicardoFitbit]

Hello @PunzunLtd thanks for bringing this to my attention and all the details that were shared with me, it's nice to see you again participating here in the Community Forums.

First, thank you for all the information and details that were shared in your post, your effort and patience troubleshooting your device prior posting are appreciated. Seems odd that you're experiencing difficulties with your Ionic and GPS tracking, this is certainly not the way we designed our device to perform. To better assist you, can you please let me know which mobile device are you currently using to sync your Fitbit? Please make sure that your Ionic, Fitbit app and mobile device software are up to date.

Looking forward to your reply, let me know if you have any additional questions. 

[PunzunLtd]

My device is a LG G8 ThinQ (T-Mobile USA flavor), running Android 9 "Pie", patch level 1 April 2019, kernel 4.14.83.

Fitbit app is v2.95 (20213397), which I believe is current.

Ionic is v27.33.1.30

Hope that helps

[RicardoFitbit]

Hi @PunzunLtd thanks for your reply and the details that were shared with me.

Let me share with you that the LG G8 ThingQ is not currently listed as a compatible device with our products and services, therefore, you may experience certain connection difficulties with it. I'm aware that some users are able to use non-compatible devices with our Fitbit products, however, we cannot ensure a proper function of all its features due to this compatibility concern. That said, I suggest you to try with a compatible device and let me know how it goes.

Keep me posted.

[Chunches]

I just bought 2 Ionic's, the GPS keeps searching and no longer connects.  This has happened to both within a day of each other.  I am confused about your answer.  Why does a compatible device make difference.  The Ionic is not using the phone for GPS.  

How do I get working again.  Frustrating!

[RicardoFitbit]

Hello @Chunches welcome to our Fitbit Community, I'm happy to assist you with your GPS concern. My apologies for the delay in responding your post.

Seems odd that both Ionic devices are experiencing the same situation. Let me share with you that at least 24 GPS satellites are constantly in orbit around the Earth and broadcasting data. All GPS devices, whether your phone or a Fitbit device, require a direct path to these satellites in order to receive their radio transmissions. If the signal is blocked—either because you're underground, near many tall buildings, or as a result of atmospheric effects—GPS won't work.

While GPS gives you a more accurate measure of distance than step counting alone, the actual accuracy depends on both your environment and the weather. If the GPS signal is lost, your phone or Fitbit device continually searches for a GPS signal as long as an exercise is in progress. Take in consideration that compatibility will not affect GPS recording on the watch itself, but when you sync the recorded information. 

I'll be around if you have any additional questions, keep me posted. 

[PunzunLtd]

My watch connected once, in Toronto on July 1st, and hasn't done so again since. So I know the chip can work; it just isn't working now.

@RicardoFitbit , in your reply to @Chunches , you mentioned that you need line-of-sight to 24 satellites. That's not exactly true; the Air Force has 27 slots containing 33 satellites, of which 17-18 can be "seen" at a time if you have 100% sky visibility, for example because you're in an airplane or at sea. To get a position, a GPS receiver needs only to lock on 3; 4 to get position and altitude.

But as I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, my phone's GPS debugging tool has showed locks on up to 14 slots in a medium-density urban environment while my Ionic can't connect at all. My car also locks in moments when it comes out of the garage. All of my previous phones lock in seconds, usually. So I'd really like to know what the problem with the Ionic is.

Also, the phone equipment shouldn't matter with Ionic like it did with Blaze. But even with my Blaze I occasionally had difficulties where my phone would have a lock on 13 slots and my Blaze wouldn't know where it was.

I'm really wondering if the clock on the Ionic is pre-loading the GPS with time data to expedite the lock, but the clock is off by enough that the GPS timing signals don't make sense. Even if that were the case, though, the GPS chip should be able to get its position in no more than 5-10 minutes as new satellites orbit across the visible sky.

So what is the problem with Ionic GPS chips?

[PunzunLtd]

More data: the GPS doesn't connect when the clock is behind network/GPS time. Right now, it's about 1.8 seconds behind NNTP / T-Mobile / GPS time. There doesn't seem to be any reason for the watch being slow.

This is significant because 1.8 light seconds is around 560,000 km--about 1.5x the distance to the moon. Without a correct baseline time, the GPS chip may assume that I'm somewhere near Lagrange 5, parked in orbit around the sun, and be unable to connect.

How do I force my Ionic to update its clock to the correct time?

I'm going to cross-post this GPS question with the clock question above.

[PunzunLtd]

I discovered this problem when troubleshooting https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Ionic/Ionic-GPS-stopped-working/m-p/3624145, which describes my Ionic GPS not connecting sometimes.

The key to solving that case seems to be making sure the Ionic's clock is accurate. And it's not. My Ionic is perpetually between 1.5 and 3 seconds behind GPS time. I've confirmed this through NNTP and WWVB time sources as well.

I've read through all the posts on the topic of Ionics being slow. Is there a way to force the Ionic's clock to sync with a phone?

I'm also getting quite frustrated with the forum here. At what point do the moderators bump the problem to an engineer? I'm a software engineer; I could be useful in debugging this problem, if someone would just escalate it.

[PunzunLtd]

This is still a problem, and it's still getting worse. I have more data, but ultimately this seems like a design flaw with the Ionic.

First, is it possible that the CMOS battery in my Ionic is dying? Because not only is the GPS failing to connect almost all the time right now, but the watch loses between 2-4 seconds every day, before resynching with my phone.

But second, I also just realized that the problem gets worse in June during the day. To test the hypothesis that sun interference may make this problem worse, I'll test the GPS again after sunset today. Looking at past exercise logs, the last time the GPS connected was at 22:30 local time on 19th June. Before that, it took 600 seconds to connect at 18:00 local time on 16th June. Before that, I had intermittent GPS locks at 17:30 on 14th June.

This suggests a problem with the GPS antenna in the Ionic. If my phone can warm-start GPS in 4 seconds, and my car can cold-start GPS in 15 seconds, why can't my Ionic lock at 16:00 local time even after 1800 seconds? I still believe that the GPS uses the onboard clock to attempt a warm start, which is exactly backwards, since the GPS signal includes a time code. Many devices set their clocks by GPS, not the other way around.

Could you talk to the engineers and find out why this happens? Clearly I'm not the only Ionic user who has problems with its GPS.

[KayakGolfSki]

Agreed-  the heart monitor is intermittent.    I'm a week in of hard testing in all kinds of exercise.  I have noticed, when battery goes low   (beneath 50%) , the heart monitor stops working.  Current work around, plugging it in will shock start it, even if it's not back to 100.

[KayakGolfSki]

I was disappointed that the golf tracker could not find the course I was on.  I messed with phone and watch settings for 4 holes.  I finally got it to start working by choosing a new activity- hiking.  GPS kicked in, then all was well for the day.  And golf app showing distance started to work too.

  Took watch off for bed, not plug in,  and then by this morning's spin,  no heart rate monitor (again).

[PunzunLtd]

The phone is (or should be) completely irrelevant to whether the Ionic's GPS chip works.

I did two long walks yesterday and the GPS couldn't connect either time. I even stopped, rebooted the Ionic, cycled the GPS setting, and tried again. Nothing.

When are you guys going to get an engineer involved in this conversation? Or just admit it's a design or manufacturing defect?