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Jumpy Pace in runs with Ionic (Fitbit please help with the addition of a moving-averaged Pace)

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Hi,

 

I took the Ionic for a test run together with an old Garmin Forerunner for comparison and I noticed that the Pace displayed on the Ionic is much more jumpy. It easily jumps from 4’00” to 5’00” without any change in my tempo while the Garmin shows a consistent 4’30”.

  • Is the GPS on the Ionic too accurate and thus is very sensitive to the arm movements? 
  • Or is it that the GPS is not accurate thus leading to errors?

in any case, it would be very nice if Fitbit could add as an extra display option a time-filtered

Pace (e.g. moving averaged over the last 100m).

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@Syrinx wrote:

Hi,

 

I took the Ionic for a test run together with an old Garmin Forerunner for comparison and I noticed that the Pace displayed on the Ionic is much more jumpy. It easily jumps from 4’00” to 5’00” without any change in my tempo while the Garmin shows a consistent 4’30”.

  • Is the GPS on the Ionic too accurate and thus is very sensitive to the arm movements? 
  • Or is it that the GPS is not accurate thus leading to errors?

in any case, it would be very nice if Fitbit could add as an extra display option a time-filtered

Pace (e.g. moving averaged over the last 100m).


I agree with your suggestion to use a moving average, my only comment would be to limit it to say five meters.  Why?  I run in a very hilly area and one-hundred meters may well be the difference between hauling butt down hill versus grinding it out up the next long grade.

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Sure. The 100m was an example. But 5 could also be fine. Whatever works best, i let this decision to the Fitbit engineers 😉

 

As long as we could get a robust stable pace for running we would be happy, I guess.

 

But the jumpy pace is for me a big issue. I participate in long-distance running competitions and I need a stable reliable pace in order to judge my performance. And the last thing I want during a Marathon is to have to guessestimate my real pace based on a jumpy measurement. 

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@Syrinx, just a side note; I am a distance runner and coach a number of runners in two different clubs, and I've found electronic aids for pacing can, as often as not, be detrimental when it comes to training and racing.  I have always wondered why those of us who don't used these aids seem to consistently out perform (on a relative basis) those who use them, especially in races.

 

My question was at least partially answered by a study I read last year which came to the conclusion well trained runners will naturally run their correct pace for their conditioning, current energy levels, the weather, the course, and the distance; the pace adjustments are subconscious, and more often than not, are dead on accurate.  The flip side is those who rely on an aid for pacing can, and often do either run too slowly for any given workout/race, or worse, run too quickly in the early stages and burn themselves out.

 

As an example, I got back into running at 57 years old following a 13 year hiatus due to a badly broken leg; after some five months of training I got roped into running a very hilly 10-mile race.  My goal pace prior to running my first race in over a decade was 9:00 per mile, and  had I relied on an aid, I would probably have stuck with that pace until it was way too late.  In the end I finished the course in 1:24, fully six minutes faster than I would have run.

 

Another example, one of the runners I coach had run a handful of 10K races and was lined up to run her first half marathon; her goal pace was 9:30; she stuck with that pace and ended up bonking at about the eight mile mark.  After the race she told me by the three mile mark she was becoming concerned the 9:30 pace was too fast for the conditions, and by five miles she knew she was in trouble.  Even still, she stuck with the 9:30 "plan" until she bonked.

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While I understand what you're saying, @shipo, I still want to have accurate and useable data to make decisions on, in training and racing, if I so choose. Having inaccurate info is hugely off-putting.

 

Fenix 5 Plus. Previously Ionic and Surge. Google Pixels 3 and 5. Aria. Chromebook. Deezer and Audible.
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@Syrinx wrote:

 

But the jumpy pace is for me a big issue. I participate in long-distance running competitions and I need a stable reliable pace in order to judge my performance. And the last thing I want during a Marathon is to have to guessestimate my real pace based on a jumpy measurement. 


Same issue here. Ionic was almost unusable in a recent half marathon. Running Frankfurt on Sunday and am probably just going to use the course markers to do my own pace calculations - which begs the question: What's the point of my 350€ Ionic?

Fenix 5 Plus. Previously Ionic and Surge. Google Pixels 3 and 5. Aria. Chromebook. Deezer and Audible.
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I find Ionic's distance and pace to be reasonable on training runs.

However, racing it totally different. While Ionic's GPS map is very accurate, its distance is always significantly understated (by exactly the same amount in various certified 5K races, as well as all other races i've competed in since I started wearing it). Also, while racing, my pace is significantly overstated.

 

Which leads me to suspect that Distance and Pace are not using GPS. I suspect they're using step-count and stride length. 

I agree with previous poster that one should race with a pace that 'feels' correct. But I would like to have fitbit help me with this task... otherwise it's money wasted.

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@bmw54 wrote:

 

...Which leads me to suspect that Distance and Pace are not using GPS. I suspect they're using step-count and stride length. 

 


I have never seen either my Surge or my Ionic use my built in stride length; said another way, it always uses the GPS data for determining pace and distance.

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I'm having huge issues with the pace measurements; to a point were I just switched across to average pace and ignore the rest of the information.  

 

Could someone from Fitbit tell me what the time on the kilometre notifications represents? It's always in increments of 5 seconds.

 

I jogged the first kilometre of a recent run in about 6:10, speeding up towards the end of the kilometre, whereupon the watch gave me the number 5:40. I'd like time elapsed for the last kilometre (which can be given more exactly than in 5-second increments and 30 seconds off)!

Fenix 5 Plus. Previously Ionic and Surge. Google Pixels 3 and 5. Aria. Chromebook. Deezer and Audible.
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I second that. I’m not too thrilled with the FitBit Ionic I bought. The pace tracker is very inconsistent when I train. It jumps from 7:20 to 7:50 to 7:05 min miles in a matter of seconds. I was extremely happy with my old FitBit surge, which was acturate. 

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I am dealing with the same issues. When I called customer support they said it's expected. My Ionic jumped from 9, to 13, to 11 in a matter of seconds with no actual pace change. I'm really bummed. Running with my phone seemed more accurate. 

 

 

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