800 calories?

[Whit88]

Okay so here is the deal. I usually eat 800 calories a day, without calorie restriction. I just don't eat that much. I eat three meals and usually one/two small snacks.  I am a vegetarian, with few exceptions ( mostly mommas homemade stuff).If I eat less food I will die, LOL! This is a low and I know this but eating more food usually makes me sick. I am going to have to increase this as i get into more exercise. At the moment I am not tired, sluggish ect. This is my normal intake. Been this way for years. So my question is this, how do I lose weight? At the moment I am walking/ occasionally running 6 miles a day on the treadmill except Wednesdays. I tore a muscle in my leg so I can't do but so much. I don't watch my calories becuase they stay the same on a rare occasion I will get 1000. on average I do eat like 60-80 carbs. Let me know if that is to much or not enough.

I want to lose 25 more pounds of fat. I want to be healthy but not too skinny. I am wondering if you guys have advice on how to lose weight faster. I have been doing this for 2 weeks and have only lost 1 pound.

I take vitamins everyday: vitamin B-12, Biotin (B6), calcium, Magnesium, triple flex, Vitamin E, Vitamin K ect.

I use Quest protein bars and powders to get my protein ( yes I know not vegetarian, but I am on a budget here)

I usually eat a bar and 2 scoops of powder a day.

Any advice would be welcomed.

Also I can only do the tred at the moment, my leg still needs to be iced. insanity is my next venture.

Thanks guys,gals

[shipo]

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@JohnRi wrote:

I certainly do know the wall.  When I first started walking it used to hit during mile 2 or mile 3 when I ran out of glucose and gylycogen.  Now I never notice it.

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That is what I call HUGE progress; keep up the good work!

If you do go back to school I trust you'll keep us posted on all the good stuff you learn.  🙂

[A_Lurker]

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@shipo wrote:

As I understand it:

• Carb (especially complex carbs) do NOT cause fat.
• Fat (as in natural fats, not crap like CANOLA) do NOT cause fat.
• Sugar (especially highly refined sugars and HFCs) DO cause fat.

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Nah, an excess of calories cause weight gain.  Simple. 

I was reading an article earlier today and they were talking about 'force feeding' raw sugar to people.  However, even that was a bit much as we all know they just brought people in and gave them pure sugar to eat.  The problem with any self-reporting study is that people aren't always 100% honest about what they have eaten the rest of the day, and how much exercise they've done.

Short of locking a group of people at roughly the same bodyweight and bodyfat, and then controlling everything for some period of time, there won't be a winning side.  High starch, low fat may be the best diet, but if you can't stick it out then it doesn't work for you.  I saw a reference to another in a different thread (Dr Ornish).  If he's the guy I'm thinking about, bought the book years ago... tried it.  Might be a great plan but it was before I hit 407 pounds and it certainly wasn't the solution for me.

Back to the original poster - @Whit88 - we've all let our personal opinions stray from your first question.  As someone who is down over 100 lbs from where I was I understand you not wanting to back slide.  However, I really don't think you can continue to live your life well, and nourish your body, on 800 calories a day, especially as you want still to lose weight.  I'm not sure that anyone here is truly qualified to help you.  Talk to a nutrionist if you can, in order to find a safe, slow way to increase your calories.  If you do this slowly enough you should be able to do this without gaining weight.  Once you're maintaining your weight on a higher calorie limit you then will be able to cut calories to lose weight.

[GershonSurge]

@Whit88 and other newcomers to the McDougall way of eating.

The science can be confusing enough to make a person throw up their hands and stay with their old habits. Let's make it easy.

First a warning to diabetics: This diet can eliminate the need for medicine within a few days to 10 days. It's important to have close contact with your doctor. Understand I know nothing about diabetes, so consult with your doctor before attempting any of my recipes.

A note to those taking high blood pressure medicine. Most people come off all medicine within a few days of starting this way of eating. It helps to have a blood pressure monitor like the Omron 5 or Omron 7. Make sure you can call your doctor to reduce doses of medicines as needed.

First, a statement of what the diet is. 

1. No animal products.

2. No vegetable oils.

3. Mostly starch (potatoes, beans, corn, grains, oatmeal, rice, sweet potatoes, lentils, and other things you can look up.) Some fruits and vegetables. Up to an ounce of nuts if you don't need to lose weight or as an occasional treat. 

Half the plate plate should be starches. Half vegetables. For those losing weight, 1 to 3 servings of fruit a day. A salad on the side if you like. That's it! The nutrients will take care of themselves. No need to count calories of you prefer not to. Eat until you are comfortably full. Eat if you get hungry.

Whit88, you are probably wondering how you can get started. I suggest focusing on one meal at a time.

I weigh most of my foods, but they are generally the serving size on the box.

Breakfast:

63 grams oatmeal (or the measurement on the box.) Quaker's original is a good brand.

About 50% more water than recommended if  you like your oatmeal moist.

50 grams unsweetened apple sauce. (Tree top is a good brand.)

A couple small spoons of sugar if you need it to eat oatmeal.

Banana or any other fruit in season.

If you hate oatmeal, any of the other grain cereals work. You could also have a pancake and a normal amount of syrup. 

Lunch and supper.

I cook most of my meals in an inexpensive rice maker from K-Mart. If you don't have a rice maker, use a covered pot and set it at medium low. Either way, all my meals seem to be done in 26 minutes.

The base for my meals is usually rice or potatoes.

I use 1/3 cup of rice as I need larger portions than the serving size of 1/4 cup. Use twice as much water as the serving of rice you measure. Toss it on the bottom. Take a good bit of any frozen mix of vegetables you like and put it on top of the rice. You can also use the steamer basket. If you prefer fresh vegetables, they take the same amount of time.

Potatoes are lower calorie than rice, so you can have more of them. When I eat fresh potatoes, I dice them into about 1/4 inch cubes with the skin on. A fist sized potato or even two of them works well. Put about 3/4 cup of water in the bottom of the pot and add the frozen or fresh vegetables on top. Use the steamer basket if you have one and feel like it. 

You can also steam Ore Ida potatoes. (Look in the breakfast section.) The Potatoes O'Brian are good. They are pretty much just potatoes. 

Beans of all types are low calorie. Canned beans are fine although they do have some extra salt. Just check the label to make sure there are no saturated fat calories. These indicate animal fat was added. There may be a gram or so of fat in a serving which is fine. Rinse the beans unless you prefer to fart loudly. Bush's Vegetarian beans are also good. Some people get gas when eating beans. This goes away after a few times of eating them.

A good meal is rice, beans and corn. Use about 1/3 of a 15 ounce can of beans and an equal amount of corn. Use about 1/3 cup of dry rice. Put the rice on the bottom of the pot. By volume, add twice as much water as you used rice. Cook for 26 minutes. Cumin goes good with this dish.

This meal is a bit higher in calories, so you can use it on days you exercise more.

Snacks:

Instead of reaching for unsatisfying junk food, have another meal! Often I make a vegetable sandwich on a Thomas Bagel or a roll. Generally, I use mustard, greens, cucumber and tomato. I add pepper on the tomato. You can also add pepper and onions. If you like, have baked beans and/or a fruit with this.

All of these except the rice, beans and corn meal are about 430 calories. The rice, beans and corn are about 630 calories.

Depending on where you are in your cycle, you will initially either gain weight, lose weight, or keep the same weight. While you are waiting to see what happens, I suggest learning to count calories. This is a personal preference. Dr. McDougall is strongly against counting calories. 

Seasonings:

Use small amounts of any seasoning you like, even salt. If  you use hot sauce, look for one with no saturated fats. This indicates no animal products.

Exercise:

To lose weight, all you have to do is burn more calories than you eat. For those who can only walk 25 paces, walk 25 paces. Maybe walk 26 the next time. For those in better shape, I suggest starting with no more than 20 minutes of walking a day. Take days off as needed. Increase the amount of exercise slowly.

For those who burn more than 1,000 activity calories a day, I suggest maintaining the deficit at 1,000. 

[JohnRi]

Sorry@Whit88, @shipo is right, we got WAY off track.  But a couple things from our discussion does apply to you. 

First of all understand that your body burns on glucose.  You body converts excess glucose to glycogen.  Excess glycogen is stored in your muscles, or worse stored as fat.

You body converts simple carbs to glucose first, as it's the easiest.  Complex carbs are a little harder, but a second choice of the body. 

Excess protein, or if you are not eating enough your muscles, are converted to glucose next.  You body uses protein to repair your muscles after exercise.  Any extra protein is converted. 

Fat is hard for your body to convert to glucose.  Doesn't matter if it's the fat you eat, or the fat stored on your body. 

When you exercise, you body first burns up the glucose in your blood.  Then the glycogen is converted by to glucose.  When this runs out, you body then looks at the extra protein or your own muscle, to convert to glucose.  Then it goes for the fat.

Your body really wants to hold on to fat.  The trick is you have to eat enough calories so that your body doesn't think it has a desperate need to hold the fat.  Your low cal diet, tells your body to hold on to every ounce of fat like your life depends on it. 

Somewhere you got into your head that eating so little was healthy, and the right way to lose weight.  And that carbs are the enemy. 

As you can see it really doesn't matter what you eat, everything gets converted to glucose.  Carbs, protein, fat, doesn't matter.  Anything you eat can be converted to fat.

Now when you exercise, your body gets better at converting fat back to glucose. 

But when you say that legs hurt, that bothers me.  To me that says despite the high amount of protein you are eating, you body doesn't have enough to repair your muscles.  Only thing I can think of was it converted your protein into glucose to fuel your body. 

Bottomline your whole body's metabolism is all out of whack because of your diet being so low.

You never did post basic info about your self, so I'm going to ask.  What is your height?  What is your current weight?  What is your age?  Do you know what your BMR is?  What is your TDEE?  What is your current BMI?  What is your current fat %?

I want you to visit this site, http://fitcal.me and find out what your BMR, TDEE are.  Take a look at mine.   You will only see the charts on this post on the website at Fitbit.  They dont show up on email notifications.

If you you see my BMR is 1856, and extreme calorie restriction is 2157 calories for me to eat a day.  I eat around 2000-2100 calories a day, so I'm right about where I need to be.  You can also use the Macros function on the site to give you a idea of Protein, fat, and carbs to eat. 

I personally eat around 20% protein, 25% fat, and the rest carbs.  But that's just what I like to eat.  I didn't choose this ratio based on any "diet". 

Here are my rough macros:

I would imagine, when you use this site, you are going to see numbers WAY over what you are currently eating. 

You really need to get it in your head that you need to eat a lot more than you are eating.  And that carbs, or food are not the enemy.  Eating does not make you fat.  Over eating does.  Inactivity does. 

Now if use this website, and you find that your BMR is 1500, and it tells you to eat 1700 calories a day, don't just start eating 1700 calories!  First of all your metabolism is probably all messed up. I bet that you are cold most of the time.  Or that you like the temp in your house to be around 80.  This would be because your metabolism has slowed down to conserve energy, is not keeping you as warm as you need to be.

So you need to slowly increase your calories over many months until you get your diet up to at least the extreme TDEE level. 

I highly recommend getting with a nutrionist, and you probably should join an eating disorder group, and seek help with a therapist.  Because I can give you all kinds of advice, the bottom line, is you are so afraid to eat, because you are so afraid to get fat. You are starving yourself, you don't know it, and it's going to really hurt your body doing this.  It's going to take you years to recover from this.  It's going to be hard.  And you need a lot more help than anyone on here can provide.

The good news, is you have already asked for help.  Be open to suggestions.  Food does not make you fat.  Eating does not make you fat.  Carbs are not the enemy.  What made me fat, I ate 3000-4000 calories a day, and burned 3000 on a good day, probably 2200-2400 calories most days.  I just ate TOO MUCH. 

Please seek help, I'm afraid for you. 

Good luck! 

[Whit88]

JohnRI I did the website thing and I am not sure how to post hte picture but here is what it told me

BMI= 24.8

BMR= 1407

TDEE= 1934 ( maintain weight) 1644(15%)  1547 (20%) 1451 ( 25%)

The macro thing told me I need the following

149 grams protein=30.8%

234 Carbs= 48.4%

45 Fat= 20.8%

Isn't that alot of protein? alot of carbs? Do I do this gradually?

The following is me just venting about some of the comments.

 I do not need to join an eating disorder group. For the last time,please, I have adderall which makes you not have a appetite. I have never thrown up after eating or would want too. I don't stick to 800 calories a day. it is just the normal range for me. I came on here asking advise on how to increase my food without having any set backs. I keep getting people telling me I have an eating disorder. Yall are driving me nuts. I am 28 years old and lost all of my weight the hard way, i didn't cut corners. I have spent alot of time trying to keep myself healthy. I desided to stop eating meat because I went to Veterinary Tech. School and found out what was in all that crap, the FDA is a joke. I did it to be healthy. Tonight  I ate taco bell ( no cheese no sour cream no meat) well beans instead of meat. So I have no problem horking down food. I was asking what the best way to lose weight was. I can't help but get a bit frustrated with you guys. I have consumed over 100 carbs twice in the last week. And that was when I wasn't trying thought I do think that is alot of carbs, please correct me if I am wrong here. I can eat. And I eat when I am hungry. I was mislead by people about food in the past obviously. I thought carbs were bad, apparently that was wrong. By all means correct me. All I did was what I was told, unfortunately it was wrong. I am increasing my calories based on what yall have said and am reading everything, I appreciate all the time you guys are putting into this, I need a better understanding for sure.

I know that you all are trying to help but for the love of God, ha please stop telling me I have an eating disorder. I am not underweight and don't throw up after meals and I enter what I eat at the end of the day or at lunch. I don't count what I eat while I am eating it. I try to stay away from bread potatos ext.  I just wanted advise on what to do, and the right way to do it. Alot of you have helped me, but some of you are getting the wrong impression. Also I eat meat 5 times a year. At my mothers request because it makes the holidays to hard. And this girl has to have a cheesy western  on her birthday.

[Heather-S]

No one said you have an eating disorder, we aren't doctors and can't diagnose you based in a few internet posts. I said your preoccupation with macros and whatnot was concerning and suggest you seek a medical professional or nutritionist that can counsel you based on your current health and wellness, fitness goals, and past medical history.

[A_Lurker]

@Whit88 - one person mentioned her own experience on her own eating disorder, but I just read back through the threads and I think most of us are trying to help.  Forgetting all the wandering off topic into our own personal eating choices, the one thing that has come up more than once is that 800 calories a day isn't where you should be eating. @JohnRi gave some good advice on finding where you should be eating.  Forget macros, % and such for now.  Everyone here will have a different opinion and a different expert to point to.

Fact 1: you eat around 800 calories a day, and appear to have been doing so for years

(it is also possible that you don't track accurately and you in fact eat more, I'm accepting what you say)

Fact 2: you are terrified of gaining it back (most of us get that)

Fact 3: you still want to lose weight, but even with increased activity you can't

Fact 4: you do seem to understand that you can't cut your calories more (this is good)

Okay, so somehow you need to raise your calories, probably really, really slowly.  I don't think you'll be able to lose more weight without doing this first.  I could be completely full of it, but you have reached a point where you seem to know you need to change something.  I don't think anyone here is going to tell you to work out more and keep eating 800 calories.  You can google something along the line of '800 calories a day safe' you will see lots of ads, but also some good information.  The most prevalent information is that this is a short term solution that should be done under a doctor's supervision.

You've mentioned lots of troubles eating higher calories.  Smaller servings more often can help.  Where most of us look for lower calorie density foods (ie. broccoli) you may want to consider the opposite.  Think olive oil, homemade granola, avocado, nut butters, dark chocolate.  On the nut butters (peanut, almond, etc.) avoid ones with added sugar and fat.

Don't be afraid of any one food group.  Not carbs, not fat, not protein.  I think someone else mentioned the protein bars and powders, they can be a good supplement, but perhaps not as a large percentage of your calories.  I gave you a link in my first post:

http://eatmore2weighless.com/the-metabolism-reset-guide/

It really just starts with eating 50-100 calories more a day for the first week and then slowly increasing your calories until you are eventually eating your TDEE.  At that point you will be able to decrease your calories and start to lose weight.  Hey, adding 50 calories could be less than a tsp of peanut butter, a square of dark chocolate, or splashing a little more than a tsp of oil on roasted veggies.

[JohnRi · Accepted solution]

The only reason why I mention the eating disorder groups and a nutrionist is they are better trained than I am at helping you find ways to eat more.  They would have tips on how to slowly increase your diet. 

But let's look at your numbers.  First of all you say you are eating 800-1000 calories a day.

Your BMI is 24.8, which is the top of the healthy normal range.  So you can lose 10-20 lbs and still be in the healthy range.  Your BMR is 1407. 

I want to stop right there.  Your body should burn 1407 calories every day, just breathing, pumping blood, keeping you warm, digesting food...  So if all you did was lay in bed, and ate your 1000 calories, you would still be 407 calores short.  You body has to come up with ways to make up the difference.  So every single calorie you eat is being used every day. 

First you will be cold all the time.  Second, your body will burn as much muscle as it can.  Muscle burns more calories, so getting rid of muscle reduces your calories burned.  And if it's still short, it will then, and only then burn your fat reserves.  Since your are not losing weight, then your body much have reduced your metablism to a bare minimum and never hits the reserves.

Now you add calores burned from going to work, working, cooking, working out, etc.  And you are futher in the hole. Your body has to find the energy somewhere.  More muscle burned.

My wife was very much like you, ate around 800 calories a day, her bmi was 30.2, bottom of the obese range, her fat % was like 48% making her morbidly obese.  By just eating 1500-1800 calories a day, she lost over 32 lbs, and her fat % is now 39%.  Her BMI is 25.4.  While she is almost in a healthy weight range, she is still way too high for fat %.  She needs to get it down to 31% at least.

So bare minimum you need to eat at least 1407 calories.  Now let's look at the TDEE.  1934 calories to maintain your current weight.  Almost double what you are eating now.  I know hard to imagine isn't it.

1644, 1547, or 1451 or the number of calories you should eat to lose weight.  At 1451 you would roughly lose 1-2 lbs a week.

So I hope you see why you are not losing weight, and I hope you see why you need to eat more.  I hope you see how you are eating less than half the calories you need just maintain your weight.  Note that the TDEE 1451 (25%) Extreme, is an extreme weight loss number of calories.  It isn't recommended to go below this.  And you eating a diet around 50%.

So you need to get your diet up to 1451 minimum!  I know you are probably thinking how and the hell am I going to do this?

First of all do is slowly.  You say you eat 5 times a day, try to make it 6 or 7 times.  Try adding a little more calories to each meal.  Take your time, but build your way up to one of the TDEE levels.  God I've never told this to anyone, but if you are stilling struggling, drink a coke.  Soda has totally empty calories, but the fact is you need them.

I'd be willing to be cash money, that once you get your diet above 1200 calories, you will start to lose weight.

Now as far as the Macros are concern, I personally think they are are worthless when losing weight.  They are very important when you want to add muscle during weight training, but other than that they are meaningless.  Just eat real food, protein, fat, carbs, doesn't matter.  You're eating so little, that every calorie you eat will be used.  Regardless of if's a carb, protein, or fat. 

Try adding cheese to everything.  Try eating high calories vegetables and fruits, nuts, etc.  Eat lots of bread.  I know you have issues with eating meat, but if you can sneak a little in, here and there, it's high in protein and your body needs that to rebuild your muscles.

Keep exercise to 30 minutes or less every other day until you get your diet under control.

Monitor your weight, but don't freak out if it starts going up.  Chances are your body will be rebuilding lost muscle.  If you don't have a aria scale to measure fat percentage, get a clothing tape measure.  And measure your thighs, chest, stomach, waist, arms, etc.  Write them all down. Take your measurements weekly.  If you see your weight go up, but your body getting smaller, that what you want!  Means your fat % is going down, and your muscle mass is going up.  If you see the oppossite, keep eating at that level, but add more exercise.  When you see your weight is stable again, start increasing your diet again.

You're going to need lots of patience.  And you're going to have to find ways to eat more.  A lot more.  Like twice what you ate on a 800 calorie day.

Once you get your body up the minimum TDEE, they can start exercising more.  Lift weights.  Work on strength training to rebuild your muscles.

You have a long road ahead of you, but you can do it, you will get the results you want.

Good luck! 

[Whit88]

Johnston that was perfectly explained. I have never heard of that scale before, I will look into it. My last question is should I be concerned about sugar. I decided to get my carbs from fruits. It's summertime and I love fruit. I cut my exercise back to three miles but I will cut it back more. I don't want another muscle tear. I will bump it up. I have set up an appointment with a nutritionist at my mother's work. She said she would help me figure some things out. But you have helped a lot. I think I was just trying to be healthy my monitoring everything I ate without fully understanding how my body breaks it down. Thank you for helping me with this and everyone else as well I will keep you posted on the appt. My goal is to lose 14 more pound and start trying to tighten up with weights. Thanks for the help.