BMI

[Captain-Canuck]

I apologize if this has been covered to death....and I thought it would have been, but when I did a search of all forums BMI came up with nothing. So...here is my 2 cents.

For any of you fretting about your BMI, do not. Just stop. It was never a useful tool for measuring fat, as it only calculates height-to-weight. 

As an example, I am a 63 year old male, 6 foot even, and 198 lbs. According to the BMI chart,

I need to lose almost 30 lbs. Well, being athletic, I have more muscle mass than body fat, so basically I would have to lose muscle to get to that weight. I weighed 170 lbs when I was 16 years old, and I used to get teased..."hey stretch!" ...I was NOT the picture of health lol. Sure, I could...AM losing 10 lbs...that is MY goal, but it is abs I want to see, not ribs extra ribs.

So, in my case, the "recommended" BMI is actually not healthy. My doctor would send me for a dozen tests to find out what was wrong. 

[WendyB]

Good advise. Thanks for posting!

[Baltoscott]

Hi @Captain-Canuck.  Valid points, but ignoring BMI is probably bad advice for most people, as it generally does correlate well with fat.  But it is far from a perfect proxy, and you are right to point out that for someone like you with greater than average muscle, it doesn’t work.  

Here is a link to what the NIH says about it, including the limitations you mentioned.  

According to their calculator, at 6 ft, you would fall into the “normal’ BMI range (under 25) at 184 lbs, which is only 4 lbs less that the 10 lbs you say you need to lose to show off your abs.  So even for you it’s not that far off.

[Captain-Canuck]

My personal fitness goals are not driven by any acknowledgement of the BMI “standard” or guideline.

Why? Decades ago, in my military days, the Canadian military used..religiously, the BMI chart as the benchmark for recruiting and retention.
Again using myself as an example, I was told by the doctor at the recruiting station that I needed to gain 14 lbs and try again. I was a 22 soccer playing distance runner/squash player/mountain climbing fitness machine. The standard for basic training was 50 push ups, 50 situps, (I forget the swimming standard) and a requirement to run the 1.5 miles in under 10 minutes. Those were laughable goals for me. Yet ,there it was BMI. I ate some very unhealthy things in a hurry to make the deadline of a re-weigh before having to repeat the entire process from scratch.
I also had many many friends who go caught in the “BMI trap”…all of them athletes who had incorporated strength training into the regimental fitness regimes.
The military finally realized the damage they were doing to lives, morale and retention. It’s hard to fill the ranks, pilots seats, and submarines with people who look like Iron-man competitors at the starting line. It’s just not realistic, nor representative of the general population of which recruitment is reliant upon.
They finally got that from the commanders on the ground. “Stop! we are losing all our healthy fit troops!” Of course the wheels of bureaucracy are slow, so many more were shown the door before BMI was dismissed, and a more realistic and common sense approach was taken.

It is common sense…we don't need to have a PhD in medicine or be a kinesiology major to spot those who need to lose some body fat One can see body fat.
Those who have excess body fat..and no…excess is not some figure over 10%…looking like CR7 is not realistic for most of the population.
The important stuff is in the blood.
Eat properly, don’t make exercise something you despise, walk dammit, walk…work it into your day. Find a sport you enjoy. This is not rocket science.
And yes, if you have fat, you know where it is and how much it is…we all have mirrors. So…BMI…bye bye. NOT useful.

[bikerhiker]

I have to agree with Captain Canuck, but unfortunately some people are still clinging towards dated knowledge and research.  I am a Canadian myself and work in the medical field and we know and understand the limitation of BMI.  As you said; it took awhile for the Canadian system to realize the flaws of BMI.

Recent studies had found that current BMI measurements do not necessarily apply to people other than Caucasians, and had shown that people of African, Latino, Asian, Natives and East Indian descent do not conform to the BMI standards defined by the WHO (World Health Organization).  The Ling studies with more than 100,000 cohorts performed in China had discovered that people who are supposed to be obese did not go on to develop diseases that the BMI suggested.  In fact, people who are lean die more from cardio related diseases than what current BMI suggested.  These findings ran counter to the long held belief that if you maintain your BMI at a certain level, you are somewhat at the lower risk level of developing cardiovascular and other diseases linked to obesity.  So right now, there are separate BMI charts for different ethnic groups, but current studies indicate that social and environmental conditions determine your health outcome, even if you are lean and look healthy.

So yes, the only determinant factor is to chart your BMI with your blood work, which is a more reliable benchmark of health.  What Captain Canuck needs to remember that as Canadians, we are enjoying the benefits of public health care, which means that annual health checkups and doctor consultation are FREE.  This is a U.S based forum with members who are US citizens and therefore does not necessarily enjoy the same level of free public access to medical advice and blood work as we Canadians do, so US citizens tend to rely mainly on the advice of individuals who are not necesarily fully medically trained and not medically licensed or sanctioned by their respective colleges and not necessarily keeping up with current recent medical discoveries.  And so therefore, your advice can be debated by these individuals as they don't all necessarily work in the field.

Having said that, BMI is still a good guideline, but use it as such.  Any determinant of personal health condition should be consulted by a qualified and licensed medical professional and opinion as such should come from your chemical and biological compositions rather than a set of numbers and formulas.

[Dominique]

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@bikerhiker wrote:

This is a U.S based forum with members who are US citizens   

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Actually, no. Fitbit community forums are arranged by language, not country or citizenship. This forum is part of the English-speaking community: there are members from all over the world, including from non-English speaking countries. The only requirement is to use English as the communication language.

There are forums for other languages, You can switch to forums in other languages via the drop-down menu at the bottom right corner of your browser’s window:

Here are a few direct links:

Comunidad (Spanish)

Communauté (French)

Of course, US-based members may very well be the majority of the English-speaking community, because of the size of the US population.

[bikerhiker]

That may be true, but not every country in the world offers similar universal health care as we Canadians enjoy today.  There are a few European countries that offer similar universal health care.

Having said that, Fitbit is a U.S based company and as such this what I made reference of.  When I attend medical conferences and meet with US doctors, one of their frustration is that their patients (clients) have a biased inclination to accepting advice from non-medical professional even if their doctors are telling them otherwise.  This is a bit different in Canada where you have a choice to get a 2nd, 3rd or 4th opinion from the top doctors, surgeons or hospitals as universal health care does not discriminate whether you are rich or poor.  Even if you are poor, you can and have the same access to the same doctor as a rich Canadian.  I am not here promoting the benefits of Canadian health system, as we also have certain cons, but I found that when people are given access to free professional medical advice, they usually keep up to current knowledge and research or makes the attempt to educate themselves prudently.  My family doctor basically told me that BMI is good for reference only and is not a replacement for his advice.

[Captain-Canuck]

My doctor does not use or like or have a BMI chart on his wall or computer. He is a very 30-something popular doctor, is fit, but values nutrition and age appropriate exercise to his patients. He also still weighs all his patients who come in for any reason…to check for sudden loss/gain indicating issues other than not qualifying for the local “bun burner 200” marathon. His approach to excess body fat is the same as mine, and I know, from family and friends who also have the good fortune of having him as a GP….that he brings up body fat like all doctors should….”Well Mrs/Mr. Jones…how you feeling today? Any aches pains issues you need to tell me about…”how do you feel about your weight”? IF he feels there may be an ongoing, or a possible issue down the road. Again, you are correct, it may be a “Canadian thing” but he, and most will gently nudge you towards literature or a dietitian. And of course always consult a medical doctor before starting any regime.

So no…I’m sticking to my guns. BMI has no place in 2018. Zero. None. But it just keeps creeping back..eh?

Having said all that, and you have no issue with it, and it is your mantra and target, then have at ‘er. Just please don’t even suggest it is an accurate yard-stick, guideline or reference. It’s not. My personal reference..NOT for a health or fitness indicator? “Oooo LOOK! I can see my abs!” not CR7 kinda abs, but maybe a 4 pack 🙂

[bikerhiker]

@Captain-Canuck

My GP, although much much older than your GP subscribe to the same notion to personalized patient care.  I think you'll find that younger Canadian doctors, in general, are less grouchy and more open minded as they are freshly trained with the latest medical knowledge and expertise.  But my GP has experience behind his belt and that's why he knew that BMI means nothing unless accompanied by some tests.  I also have a younger 30 something male doctor and a 30 something female doctor I both retained for 2nd and 3rd opinion when my more grouchy GP does not accept my concerns.  This is the freedom I really enjoyed having universal health care.  

Having said that, my older doctor does not disregard BMI entirely.  His opinion is that In the absence of free professional medical advice, doing something about your weight is better than doing nothing at all.  My GP understood that not all countries have the same universal health care that we felt entitled to have.  Not every citizen in this planet are as entitled to advanced medical care as we Canadians now freely enjoy.

The only harm BMI can do is to either place you in underweight or overweight category for certain ethnic groups, but thankfully with free Canadian medical care, earlier signs of symptoms can be detected, averted and prevented.  In countries without free accessible medical care, the only time you see the consequences of that misuse and misunderstanding of BMI is in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit).  By then, organ damage can sometimes be irreversible.

[Captain-Canuck]

I always defer to common sense. People know what fat is, and know it doesn’t always lead to critical health issues. Obesity is another matter entirely, and is not what we are discussing here. But when someone believes a document, which they believe must be true and accurate because “they” say so, then people will trust in it in the name of self interest and good health. It just introduces another layer of fear and unease in certain demographics. I fear snake oil salesman, and gym membership peddlers, use it as a marketing tool. If people enjoy a 7%-9% body fat lifestyle, that’s great as long as achieved in a sensible and healthy manner.
But for anyone in the medical, military or athletic community to suggest, the general population need to look at that model, was wrong headed and lacked serious scrutiny at the time.
I’m done flogging this BMI thing lol.

[bikerhiker]

Absolutely agree..  In the old days, certain societies and ruling parties know that if people does not know how to read and write, they can control the people with fear and ignorance.  Not long after people are given the ability to read and write is when this control is lost.  The same is with the medical system now with a lot of snake oil, gym peddlers and health food fads that when medical care is not free for all, a certain population of people usually succumbed to fear and misinformation.  Imagine that if your current GP is charging top dollar for every visit and everything else cost money for sound medical advice, you would not be as highly educated and aware as you would with what you have now, a GP that you have free access to and a medical community that freely supports proper sound education is like giving a person the knowledge and power to read and write and then giving them the power to make their own factual and sound choice rather than based on fear and lack of knowledge.  This is the result of what our Canadian medical system had allowed you and myself to be given this power and knowledge.  🙂

I also belong to other Canadian based medical forums and what you will find in those forums is that, they do not tolerate people who provide information which are not medically accurate as you usually either get medical professionals in the forum or people will simply go to the doctor for a free 2nd opinion.  So usually, people who espouse dated information are either usually ignored or they simply disappear because they can no longer peddle their agenda or being exposed of.  

[SunsetRunner]

I have encountered the same problem when I had my last visit with my Dr. I knew I was over weight, but I have been very active over the years (59 yrs) good bone structure and muscle mass. When he pulled out the chart and said what my target weight should be, I said no way is that possible.

I ended up going for a full body impedance scan that gave me everything from fat % to water weight , muscle weight, found out that I was within 7% of my target weight and my target weight differed from the chart by 15 lbs.

[Mukluk4]

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@bikerhiker wrote:

So yes, the only determinant factor is to chart your BMI with your blood work, which is a more reliable benchmark of health.  What Captain Canuck needs to remember that as Canadians, we are enjoying the benefits of public health care, which means that annual health checkups and doctor consultation are FREE. 

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Actually in most instances this is also true for US Citizens.  Once you get beyond this though you get gouged.