CANT lose weight

[Liitleshadow]

Hey everyone,

I am feeling a little down today.
I've had fitbit charge hr for the past month. Nonetheless, I have been trying to lose weight for the past 1 and a half. I started with 86kg and I am now at 74.3 kg. Its been 1 month amd a half that I have reached my goal (running for 25) and No change has come to my body. I have lost 5 cm on my belly, but my weight has not changed for the past month. I eat only healthy stuff and have been doing a deficit of 1000 calories with the hope of losing 2kg per week (fitbit app deficit goal)

Can anyone help me please? I dont know whats wrong...

[Heybales]

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@healthsidekick wrote:

Where does it state to eat less than your BMR? HSK Prime # is a proprietary algorithm and does not claim to be your BMR. It is where you don't lose or gain any weight based on the foods and activity you log and the lifestyle you live. Not your Basil Metabolic Rate. FYI the Harris Benendict or Mifflin (most comonly used by sites like fitbit, nothing proprieatary)  are off an average of 17% As a matter of fact if you read the orignal Study it states it should only be use as a basis of generalization. For me my allowable calories if I were to use a fitbit are off 400 calories a day. The only way a user can figure out their basil metabolic rate is under strict conditions. Not plugging the data into a static equation.

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1091498/

(2) As we have repeatedly emphasized in the foregoing pages, every
individual metabolism measm-ement considered as a basis for generalization
concerning the peculiarities of the individual upon which it is
based {e.g. physical characteristics, pathological state, etc.) has a large
probable error. Thus one can not compare the metabolism of a single
individual of any specified ty-pe with the standard constant and use
it as a basis of generalization. It is only when a series of individuals
of the specified type are considered that generalizations may be drawn. 
 

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http://www.healthsidekick.com/how-it-works.php

"2: For the 1st day you will be on the same equation every other site and tracker uses. This is your starting point. Locate your BMR number highlighted in yellow. Try to stay underneath your BMR number to lose weight, at it to maintain or over to gain."

I'm merely stating that if this misunderstanding of what BMR means - eat less to lose weight, eat at to maintain - then I think that calls in to question rest of the service provided. Or at least be very skeptical if the BMR is used incorrectly for what it really means.

Your link is for Harris reference, which is exactly why Mifflin was created to improve accuracy by 5%.

And in the studies using participants that had NO attempts at weight loss for prior 6-9 months, Mifflin was usually within 5% of tested for overweight BMI folks, worse as weight went up.

Using Katch BMR calc based on tested BF%, variance stayed really well even as weight increased, though on the low side then.

The start of every study I've seen where they have estimated RMR by calc, and then actually measured it with metabolic cart, shows agreement within 5%. And every weight loss study uses participants that have not been attempting to diet or shown weight change in many months.

But very true, an RMR test is the best the average user will get. BMR would be better, but finding a research study that actually measures it would be pretty iffy.

And it's pretty easy to figure out your true average TDEE, when you start with a minor deficit so you don't change what you burn.

Just take 2 valid weigh-ins 4 weeks apart while doing the average workout schedule you intend to keep along with daily activity.

Weight lost x 3500 / 28 days = real deficit that was in place.

Now average calories eaten by accurate logging + real deficit = results based TDEE.

Now adjust as needed for desired weight loss and eating level. And adjust every month.

[healthsidekick · Accepted solution]

It could be clarified that it is BMR + TDEE, but for people that sign up it is clear.

On the other points let’s assume you are right and there is a 5% difference in the Mifflin study to BMI. I have seen studeis much higher. You point out there is a 5% difference to BMR. BMI is a horrible way to measure how fat someone is. It has a huge probable error and a wide range. So increase the 5% up to 10%.

Regardless of this let’s assume you are right in there is a 5% difference, for me it is off 20%. On a 2,000 calorie diet I am off 100 calories a day. I think we can agree this is an average so for some people it will be more and some will be less. I have lost 40lb eating at an average deficit of 40 calories a day. The easiest way to lose weight is by eating as much as possible while still losing.

You are right you can figure out your TDEE on your own (most can’t and won’t), but why would you want to manually adjust it monthly when you can have an algorithm do it for you daily?

That is what Health Sidekick does.

3500 calories being = to 1 pound is a general guide and this also increases the error as well as a multitude of other variables.

[Heybales · Accepted solution]

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@healthsidekick wrote:

It could be clarified that it is BMR + TDEE, but for people that sign up it is clear.

On the other points let’s assume you are right and there is a 5% difference in the Mifflin study to BMI. I have seen studeis much higher. You point out there is a 5% difference to BMR. BMI is a horrible way to measure how fat someone is. It has a huge probable error and a wide range. So increase the 5% up to 10%.

Regardless of this let’s assume you are right in there is a 5% difference, for me it is off 20%. On a 2,000 calorie diet I am off 100 calories a day. I think we can agree this is an average so for some people it will be more and some will be less. I have lost 40lb eating at an average deficit of 40 calories a day. The easiest way to lose weight is by eating as much as possible while still losing.

You are right you can figure out your TDEE on your own (most can’t and won’t), but why would you want to manually adjust it monthly when you can have an algorithm do it for you daily?

That is what Health Sidekick does.

3500 calories being = to 1 pound is a general guide and this also increases the error as well as a multitude of other variables.

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I didn't say there was 5% difference between Mifflin BMR and BMI, I said between calculated RMR and measured RMR for those in the overweight BMI category. BMI has several ranges of weight class - under, normal, over, obese, morbidly obese. Better BMI calcs use gender too. But the BMI usage in that case is NO indicator or attempt to find BMR or BF%, it is merely saying how overweight the person was in the study.

Because those studies almost always are only selecting a group of people within a certain to range to test whatever they are going to test.

But agree it's best to lose eating the most you can - have the least negative side effects that way. Why start with bare minimum that is purely for safety, not for performance, longetivity, or aesthetics.

And yes, 1 lb of fat = 3500 is good math when you do like I said, take a minor deficit. Make it too big and start including muscle mass, and that math no longer applies since muscle lost only provide 600 cal / lb.

That's great it can do it daily, since general activity level can change.

Just seems a hard sell in the forums for a device people have bought to do the same thing.

[healthsidekick · Accepted solution]

When you say it does the same thing, does fitbit auto adjust for members?
Or does a member have to manually adjust their tdee to ge an accurate #?
From my understanding (and maybe I am wrong) fitbit uses the mifflin equation with tdee and where a heart rate monitor is not available basic METS calculations.
If it doesn't auto adjust for members it doesn't do the same thing.
I am sure you will have continued success with what you are doing.

[Heybales · Accepted solution]

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@healthsidekick wrote:
When you say it does the same thing, does fitbit auto adjust for members?
Or does a member have to manually adjust their tdee to ge an accurate #?
From my understanding (and maybe I am wrong) fitbit uses the mifflin equation with tdee and where a heart rate monitor is not available basic METS calculations.
If it doesn't auto adjust for members it doesn't do the same thing.
I am sure you will have continued success with what you are doing.

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So you don't even have a Fitbit, just trying to sell a service to Fitbit members?

Yes, the devices auto-adjust daily the TDEE based on activity.

Activity is calculated with METS for the distance/pace/mass seen per step and the Mifflin BMR.

For HR devices HR based calorie burn for above a certain level.

Unaccounted for is the TEF for processing/digesting food, and awake non-moving and standing non-moving increased calorie burn.

Studies have shown that's about 85% accurate for the 23 hrs of the day not exercising, general daily activity.

The other hour depends on your device model and your type of exercise. So in the scheme of things, not a big % off.

You might want to read the success stories section, and discover there are plenty that like running their own numbers, and discover just how correct the Fitbit is for saying what the calculated deficit is to what they actually lost and what the deficit must have been.

I've written activity calculators that when honestly used with time and level of exercise have matched what people got with their Fitbits, and which both matched their level of weight loss when eaten at a deficit.

Neither is going to have success without honest user input.

It's impossible to have any truly auto-system that is going to be 100% accurate, not without wearing a gas-mask tied to backpack analyzer, and even that's going to be thrown off after eating or when doing anaerobic exercise.

[healthsidekick]

You have inspired me. I will run another 60 day test logging in MFP, Fitbit and HSK and see what one is more accurate. Although I have ran tests against mifflin, harris benedict with and with out TDEE and HSK blows them way with ease of use and accuracy. With HSK you don't have to weigh and measure everything and you don't have to wear a bracelet. I have never tested against acutuall wearing a fitbit (just the app/phone combo).  

I will say this to the fact that fitbit is adjusting on activity is not auto adjusting based on what happened to your body. HSK does. 

Are you saying that fitbit will auto adjust based on what happens to my BFP and weight. HSK does.

Here is what happened so far and I believe this error will stay unless I manually adjust it in fitbit. I know it stays in myfitnes pal, but maybe you know something I don't quite understand about fitbit?

https://youtu.be/ce9TBOAsXVc

[Heybales]

Sadly no, none of the activity trackers go by BF%, probably because the potential accuracy of that stat in the hands of the user is pretty iffy.

It's based on BMR though, so as weight drops, daily burn drops, burn from equal paced activity drops, ect.

HRM versions would be the same way, as weight is used in those calcs too.

I'm sure like any tool, these all can be used well, and not so well, and likely bad enough to cause some undesired negatives.

Like MFP by itself is totally relying on honest evaluation of self-selected non-exercise daily activity level, and honest logging of exercise time and intensity. Both of which can be hosed easily.

The pure Fitbit app version relying on the accelerometer in the phone loses accuracy, compared to the devices.

The ability to dynamically adjust the step distance to increase accuracy of distance helps greatly with the devices.

Sadly that's based on calculated stride length based on gender/height - so can be thrown off if well outside the bell curve. Or you manually figure it and enter it.

But really that's the case for most anything. If you are in the 80% average group under the big part of the bell curve - the devices can work very well for you, with average lifestyle and workouts.

If you are on the edges for some reason, and/or lifestyle and workouts is well beyond average the device is intended for - probably not so pretty.

During one 8 week period of good training for a half-ironman tri - my Fitbit was 5% off the results based method.

But, that was with changing my height taller to reflect my higher metabolism.

It was manually logging every workout based on HRM calories, though I never compared my running to what Fitbit estimated to know if they were close, later tests have shown surprising accuracy when I expected none.

And HRM calories was based on VO2max test results and formula based on that.

So in essence, the Fitbit with BMR adjustment was really accurate for the 20-23 hrs of the day not including the exercise.

And if exercise hadn't been 1 x or 2 x my normal daily non-exercise burn, that probably wouldn't have mattered. But 4000-6000 daily burn it does matter.

So again, fringes of the bell-curve, and well outside their normal average intended audience usage.

I'm curious how HSK doesn't need you to weigh or measure what you eat. How would you know you are hitting goal then?

[Heybales]

Ok, I'm seeing what's it's doing now.

Basing a rolling 2 week average on the assumed non-exercise eating level.

I'd suggest problem is this is assuming that the figures for exercise must be spot on, and any differences between predicted loss and real loss was all contained in the figure for daily activity outside of exercise.

Other problem here is if the weigh-in days used as part of that averaging math contain expected known reasons for water retained, like still sore from lifting, or increased sodium over normal the day prior, or huge cardio workout and didn't refill carb stores with attached water - that could all effect the assumed difference between real and calculated calories burned, causing some changes to the eating level that are really not desired.

And in the case of lifting and retained water, it would have you eating less at exactly the time you'd probably rather not be eating less.

The other issue is if a person selects a weight loss goal too aggressive, and actually causes their daily burn to slow down, causing the weight loss to be less than it was.

Now it's chasing a rabbit down a hole, since the weight loss was less, it'll appear the deficit isn't as great as desired, so recommendation will be to eat even less to get the deficit back. And that may work for a tad until the body adapts again.

That can eventually cause an eating level that causes adherence issues, as well as putting unneeded stress on the body.

Other reason that effect would come up is dishonest or inaccurate logging, lower than is really eaten, causing the same end effect.

This actually came up on MFP as a suggestion and a long topic followed about the potential negatives of people sabatoging themselves either accidentaly or purposesly.

But it is a good idea, as long as the caveats are taken in to account that could foul up the math and cause it to head in the wrong direction.

[healthsidekick]

Thanks again for chatting with me about Fitbit.
HSK actually uses two separate algothims that kick in at different times depending on what is happening to the users body.
When I say a member does not need to weigh or measure I am referring to their food.
HSK's algothims works with estimates. For someone like you that is a competitive runner having exact time and distant is important, but for someone like me that is not important. All the issues you mentioned HSK takes into account .i.e potential starvation mode and so on.
I am concerned with one thing. How much food can I eat based on the food, activity, lifestyle and even logging style I live and still lose weight. HSK is more accurate than Fitbit or MFP when it comes to giving me this answer without having to wear a bracelet. I am one of those where the deviation of the static equations (mets and mifflin with tdee) is to great. I know their are others because the sites are riddled with people that are confused with how many calories they can eat and the problem is not the member but they don't fit in the generalization with a small enough probable error. For me the static equations are off 300-400 calories a day. Not a guess, but a fact. For some people the Deviation of error is so small they work.
Anyhow thank you for chatting with me about this. Fitbit does work like I thought it did.

[IBme]

I posted this in the wrong spot. 

[Dawn1a2]

Very interesting 

[Heybales]

Been good to see how the program works.

I'd suggest if you want a site with a good food database - use the MFP API's and connect with them for the food logging, getting the meals sent back over to your site user account somehow.

You could even get your eating goal over to MFP in a round about way by way of exercise burn to cause the eating goal to be where you want it to be.

Or just strictly have MFP as the food database that sends the info over to your site.

[IBme]

Thank you Heybales for your comment, I am starting to think my problem is my body is in starvation mode. Today I worked in the yard shoveling dirt and planting my garden. According to Fitbit, I walked 5.73 miles today. A total of 13,066 steps (LOL) before I realized I was wearing my husbands bracelet 🙂 and another 856 steps wearing mine. I am sitting here now, thinking about what I have eaten today. I had one protein shake, one banana,three glasses of water and two cups of coffee (black) That is probably not enough calories for a healthy diet. Sometimes I can go 3 days without eating and not even realize it,until I start to get dizzy. So logging my food will make me much more aware that I need to remember to eat.

[Heybales]

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@IBme wrote:
Thank youHeybales for your comment, I am starting to think my problem is my body is in starvation mode. Today I worked in the yard shoveling dirt and planting my garden. According to Fitbit, I walked 5.73 miles today. A total of 13,066 steps (LOL) before I realized I was wearing my husbands bracelet 🙂 and another 856 steps wearing mine. I am sitting here now, thinking about what I have eaten today. I had one protein shake, one banana,three glasses of water and two cups of coffee (black) That is probably not enough calories for a healthy diet. Sometimes I can go 3 days without eating and not even realize it,until I start to get dizzy. So logging my food will make me much more aware that I need to remember to eat.

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Ya, that's no good at all.

Just as the body can become vitamin and mineral deficient, with some pretty negative side effects sooner or later, it can become calorie deficient too.

Obviously it has to in order to lose weight, but the amount deficient along with other stresses is going to determine if you make it to goal weight first, or you have those negatives sooner.

And some of those negatives can be pretty bad, loss of hair, monthly cycle stops, nails/skin stop being replaced nearly as fast, internal organ damage, ect.

Some of those requiring eating enough in excess you will gain fat for recovery, pontentially setting up for awful cycle to continue.

No one wants to reach 60 having a terrible relationship with food and their bodies, and be so unhealthy there isn't much to do at that point but have body systems fail early.

[redred1234]

an easy thing to add to your diet and it works is fish oil 1 tsp daily combined with a vitamin c tablet and the weight will come off slow but steady...there are fish oils that taste like citrus so its easy to take..maybe give it a try

[IBme]

 164.8....164.8....164.8- ya baby! Of course I could be dehyrated for working out in 80 degree weather all day yesterday. Will see what my Fitbit "Damit" scale says tomorrow, haha that's it's name .

[RHU]

Hi there,

I had the same problem, until I realised that I should not be focusing on Weight. Instead, I am watching my figure instead......don't understand?

The reason is simple, I used to run extensively everyday, and I've managed to lost about 10kgs with a MyFitnesspal (an app you can found on your phone, both iOS and Android) diet. However, when I got to the final stage, I could never get rid of my pear shape. I suddenly realised that I have been exercising too hard - instead of burning fat, I burn muscles too, thus as I reached a certain equilibrium, everything just got stuck!

I thus changed my strategy, work on my Fat Burn zone. Although the intensity is very low, it works surprisingly. Now the pear has gone, and I gained a bit of muscles too. Thus the figure now looks great, but I also put on some weight because of the muscle build-up.

It's better to have a healthy looking figure with the correct BMI, at least this is my opinion.  I hope this helps.

[Heybales]

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@IBme wrote:

 164.8....164.8....164.8- ya baby! Of course I could be dehyrated for working out in 80 degree weather all day yesterday. Will see what my Fitbit "Damit" scale says tomorrow, haha that's it's name .

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Ya, don't rely on numbers from invalid weigh-ins or you'll be disappointed going both directions.

Valid weigh-in day to minimize expected known water weight fluctuations.

Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

Any other days is just noise, and it takes about 2 months of noise to see an actual trend line to see what is happening.

But with valid days, down to 1 month for women.

[Mermaid3011]

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@MareWalks wrote:

I have lost over 30 pounds since October.  I loose a few pounds and then plateau for a week or two and then loose a few more.  I was VERY discouraged at first and would sometimes sabataoge my initital small successes with eating binges because I just knew that it all must be my fault.

 ... 

Please just be KIND and PATIENT with yourself.  

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I can only support what MareWalks wrote! 

Whenever I get discouraged I look at the last 5 months and how far I have come even though I have plateaued for quite some time. 

April was a write off for me since I was put on medication that stopped my weight loss and instead made me gain 2 lbs. Ugh. 

Whenever I hit a plateau and dont see much happening I do this: 

1. check my calorie intake suggestions here www.thedietfix.com

2. take the scales out, the measuring cups etc and be more precise with my measuring and logging

3. try to get more walks in per day for health, hormones and vitamin D

4. motivate myself by looking at the last 5 months and the ups and downs my weight has done. It hasnt been a straight line. More like a wavy beach... so I try to ride the waves.

[kamiller]

I agree. You have to burn more than you take in so if you do enough active minutes/day, You may not be eating enough and even the kinds of foods that will help you have energy and burn. I would do a 750 calorie deficit. I have lost 37 lbs. (16.78 lbs.). I was 204 (92.53 kg.- now 166.6 lbs. (75.6 kg)). I have to keep up the intensity of my workouts and go up even more intense as I reach plateaus to lose 1/2 lb.- 1 lb./in a week. I lose about 2- 2.5 lbs or 9.90 - 1.13 kg./week. So lower the deficit. But don't DIET!!!! Change the lifestyle. It also depends what you are eating. What you eat can prevent you from losing weight. If you want more of how I did it, feel free to look me up. Soda, sweets, processed foods (including frozen foods), foods with hormones are some of the foods not good for you. Fresh veggies, some fish, chicken (if you eat meat), fruit, nuts (incl. Walnuts, almonds). Juicing is good in moderation as a detox and for energy.

Keep focused. You can do it. Just incorporated into your lifestyle - don't make exercise and taking care of yourself a chore. You can do it.