Gaining Weight Plateau

[WavyDavey]

I'm in the middle of a bulk, target weight 225, current weight 217. For the last few weeks, I've been stuck at 217, unable to add weight. Almost every night I weight 220, and then back down to 217 the next morning.

I added 1 large double pepperoni pizza per week, but the weight still doesn't want to stay on.  About 3600 calories per day in.

Exercise is 4x/week strength training, 2x/week HIIT and 4x/week cardio. I'm considering cutting the cardio out to reduce calories burned.

Would appreciate any feedback or suggestions on how to add that last 5 pounds, without just resorting to eating total junk. Have I just reached the limit of what my body will add without a lot more calories in?

[Baltoscott]

@WavyDavey -- I'm not sure I am one to give advice since I'm having the same problem gaining, but I'm thinking you probably need to be closer to 4000/day.  I'm stuck around 162 or so and it seems to take about 3200 or more for me to gain.  I may need to to more than that.  No HIIT (except pushing hills on my bike commutes), 3X/week strength training for about 3.5 hours total, an average of 50 min/day bike riding in the winter and lots of walking.

Dropping the cardio will likely make the difference depending on how much you are doing (a couple of hours a week?).  I don't know if it is true or not, but a lot of muscle-heads drop cardio altogether during a bulk because they think it sends the wrong hormonal signals and inhibits muscle growth.  I'll probably never find out for sure personally, because I'll never stop bike commuting.  

I've been adding nuts and peanut butter for extra calories when I see I'm way behind in the evenings, but I think I need to plan better throughout the day. I'm not interested in adding junk as I don't want to develop bad habits, but keeping lots of veggies in my diet (good habit) makes it harder to eat a lot of calories during a bulk.

[WavyDavey]

@Baltoscott,

You're probably right about the calories needing to be 4000. Feels like a constant face-stuffing as it is, but I don't enjoy eating as much as some folks.

Cardio is mostly spinning or rowing at the end of a workout, maybe 2-3 hours or so a week.

It's not easy adjusting to the psychology of a bulk, as most of the resources here and elsewhere are about how to increase calories burned, not decrease them.

So my thought so far is to cut the cardio for a while, dial back the HIIT, and see how it plays. Maybe switch from whey to a weight gainer powder? But long term I know it'll be necessary to eat more raw food, as it seems my caloric needs are steadily increasing. I find the kitchen to be tougher than the gym.

[Daves_Not_Here]

@WavyDavey - maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but wouldn't you want to increase high-glycemic carbs and protein instead of fat?  It would seem that elevating blood sugar and glycogen would do the trick.

Also, knocking off the cardio would those add those calories to your surplus.  I would think this issue is probably pretty common and addressed in bodybuilding forums.

[WavyDavey]

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wrote:

@WavyDavey - maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but wouldn't you want to increase high-glycemic carbs and protein instead of fat?  It would seem that elevating blood sugar and glycogen would do the trick.

Also, knocking off the cardio would those add those calories to your surplus.  I would think this issue is probably pretty common and addressed in bodybuilding forums.

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I'm fairly agnostic about the macros. Daily protein is already 200g/day, and I lean towards fatty sources because they are caloric-dense and easier to add at this point. Fueling workouts isn't an issue.

I'm also open to the possibility that the last 5 pounds are more trouble than they're worth at this point, and it might be easier to start the cut phase earlier. And maybe reach 225 next go around.

[Baltoscott]

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wrote:

... 

It's not easy adjusting to the psychology of a bulk, as most of the resources here and elsewhere are about how to increase calories burned, not decrease them.

....

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@WavyDavey -- I agree.  There is pretty good weight gain body building board on MFP here.

@Daves_Not_Here.  Welcome back.

[WavyDavey]

@Baltoscott, do you adjust calories downwards during deloads?

[Baltoscott]

Yes, I have been adjusting down to maintenance during my deload weeks. 

[Dominique]

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wrote:

I'm in the middle of a bulk, target weight 225, current weight 217. For the last few weeks, I've been stuck at 217, unable to add weight.

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OK, I don’t know if you’re in the middle time-wise or weight-wise, but I’ll assume the latter: starting weight was 209, total planned gain 16 lbs (225 - 209).

Lyle McDonald’s site includes a post on genetic muscular potential: how much muscle can we expect to gain in a given period of time based on age, sex and lifting experience. Males can expect to gain more than  females, young individuals more than older folks, complete newbies more than advanced lifters. I believe you’re no longer in your twenties and you already have some lifting experience, which means you can no longer expect the maximum gains mentioned in the post. Thus the 16 lbs gain you had planned for this bulking phase may have been excessive: if you had reached it in - say - 3-4 months - a larger portion of it may have been fat instead of muscle. You could look at your plateau this way: it’s your body fighting against excess fat gains! 

[Dominique]

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wrote:

Yes, I have been adjusting down to maintenance during my deload weeks. 

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I personally haven’t (when in a bulking phase), based on the fact deloading is about recovery, and a sufficient amount of calories optimally promotes recovery. And anyway, deloading is only 1 week out of 5 in my programme, so any adjustment (or lack thereof) isn’t going to have a major impact, in the grand scheme of things.

[Mukluk4]

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wrote:

I'm in the middle of a bulk, target weight 225, current weight 217. For the last few weeks, I've been stuck at 217, unable to add weight. Almost every night I weight 220, and then back down to 217 the next morning.

I added 1 large double pepperoni pizza per week, but the weight still doesn't want to stay on.  About 3600 calories per day in.

Exercise is 4x/week strength training, 2x/week HIIT and 4x/week cardio. I'm considering cutting the cardio out to reduce calories burned.

Would appreciate any feedback or suggestions on how to add that last 5 pounds, without just resorting to eating total junk. Have I just reached the limit of what my body will add without a lot more calories in?

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If you want to get extreme, you can try the GOMAD (Gallon Of Milk A Day) program.  Basically eat what you do daily but add in a gallon of milk.  Serious lifters seem to push for this as it's cheaper than supplements and will get you the bulk you want.

[Baltoscott]

@Mukluk4 --  A gallon of milk a day does seem to come up a bit.  Lots of cheap protein.  I've been reading Mark Rippetoe's book "Starting Strength" (Great book for learning barbell lifts), and that is what he recommends.

[Dominique]

1 gallon of full fat milk is 3.8 liters / 3.9 kg. Full fat milk is 61 calories / 3.2 g of protein per 100 g, so 1 gallon is 2370 calories / 124 g of protein. Adding that many calories on top of your existing diet would definitely put anyone in a surplus, but the surplus would be such most gains would come as fat. Even skimmed milk is 35 calories, so a gallon would still be well over a thousand calories. I’d personally find more enjoyable ways to stuff my face.

[Mukluk4]

Considering at most you can gain about 2 pounds of muscle a month, an 8 pound swing is going to be 3/4 fat anyway.

[WavyDavey]

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@Dominiquewrote:

 I’d personally find more enjoyable ways to stuff my face.

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I'm working on it.