Observations after two months and 24 lb...

[gtg947h]

Okay, fourth try posting after the browser has dumped it multiple times. It's abbreviated. I thought the calorie count on my Versa was way overdone. Then I started to track foods. Well, after losing 24 pounds in two months, and an average daily intake around 2200/day... I guess it's not so far off after all.

Running the numbers I'm probably off around 500 cal/day, either overestimating burn or undercounting intake (or maybe both). But I can account for that now. Cutting back on carbs, and eating more protein, leaves me sated at these numbers and still leaves room for a little dessert and maybe a glass of wine or a beer. I'll exercise more or something, and cut out other foods that just aren't that great, but I'm not a monk and I'm not giving up all the good stuff. I like to eat and if that means I need to exercise more... so be it.

As an engineer, having numbers makes it much easier to hit targets. Though now I've lost enough that my burn rate has slowed for an equivalent level of activity and it's starting to bug me.

My big problem is portion control and that I'm a sucker for free food. I didn't drink sugared cokes or lots of alcohol so it wasn't as easy as just cutting those out. Knowing the calorie counts of some foods (especially restaurant foods) has somehow turned down my desire for them.

Current plan is to continue this pace until I hit 180 (currently 193). Debating at this point what to do there--gain muscle, or try to lose a little more fat first. But once I get below 190, that'll be the lightest I've been since freshman year of college, where I went from 170 to 200 in my first semester...

TL;DR: The calorie count may be more accurate than you think. Different foods can leave you feeling more full than others for the same calorie intake. Exercise enough and you can still have treats. Making good progress but not sure what to do when I get there.

editing to try and add paragraphs breaks back

edit2: One more observation:  work out somehow, every day.  It's WAY too easy to give up if you stop a day.  Using a gym instead of working out at home actually works better for me and wife; they have child care and it's harder to give up early because then you "waste" a trip...

[GershonSurge]

@gtg947h,

Congratulations on your weight loss. 

I'm an engineering type, too. I found the calories required to lose a pound increased with time. I thought it was because my Surge or Charge 2 were less accurate in counting activity calories. There may be another explanation.

A couple days ago, I was reading some of the hearings of Senator McGovern from the early 70's. They said it took 4,000 calories to lose a pound. Presumably, people were more active then and into the situation you experienced.

The first one is a person loses weight, they expend less effort to carry it around. Their Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) goes down a bit.

The second one is muscle burns more calories and people are getting more muscular as they exercise. I've never seen a chart of a person who lost weight that gained lean mass along the way. 

A couple days ago, I was reading "The Exercise Paradox." They studied hunters in Tanzania. They found the hunters burned unexpectedly few calories during periods of high activity. The authors hypothesized that the body allocated fewer calories to maintenance functions nd repair during high activity.  

Finally, in "The China Study," Dr. Campbell noted everyone burned about 2,500 calories (normalized to a weight of 165 pound) regardless of their activity level. He thought it might be that office workers may have gotten exercise outside of the office. It was a passing comment, and this reason was conjecture.

Some blame the "Starvation" affect. There hasn't been a single study I could find that proved or disproved its existence. It's a useful explanation to describe effects. 

Regardless of the explanation, the bottom line is that for many people, the closer they get to their optimum weight, the harder it is to lose weight. You will also experience plateaus along the way. 

Random question: Do you think a computer wrote this post?

[gtg947h]

I don't think the calories required to lose a pound has increased (for me, anyway, yet...).  I think it's more a decrease in BMR from losing weight--my noted calorie burn for exercises and my daily totals have gone down a bit despite the same level of activity.  I've also relaxed a bit on the food and am targeting around 2200-2300/day rather than 2000.  The bend in the weight graph correlates nicely with all of this.

I have noticed plateaus of a couple of days but everything seems to fall back in place within a week or so. 

My big question is whether to try and level off for a while after 3 months (i.e. at the beginning of November) as some have suggested, or to just go ahead and push through another month or two and just be done, whereupon I can push to build muscle?  I don't have a target weight; I just want to lose the chest and abdominal fat, build some muscle, and get back to doing slow triathlons. 

I'll admit a little excitement about being able to eat ~1000 calories more a day, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to pause now that I'm used to less.

As far as whether a computer wrote the post?  No idea.  I'm a typical engineer and can't read people for squat.  I'm therefore not a good Turing test evaluator.

[GershonSurge]

@gtg947h,

Unfortunately, the weight loss period is too short for most people to draw any statistically supported conclusions. At most, a person could find an association, but no definite cause and effect. For this reason, I'm not too attached to my conclusions.

Many people suggest a planned plateau to allow the body to repair anything that has been suffering a bit. It doesn't hurt, and might help. Or maybe it will hurt and not help. 

There is a way it can hurt since your exercise sounds mild in the sense that you are exercising slowly, but longer. Dr. Ken Cooper, who wrote the book on Aerobics and touched off the running craze in the late 60's through the 80's, suggested exercising every day for the first three to five months. This is how long he said it takes to form both a physical and mental addiction. Few joggers stick to it if they jog less than an hour a day. More isn't necessary, but up until a person's individual limit, there is nothing wrong with it.

Every person is different, so draw your own conclusions. 

Oh, many people who exercise for decades keep a training log. Include the usual numerical stuff plus the onset of even the smallest ache or pain. It will help you recognize mistakes when you make them again. 🙂

[emili]

congrats on your weight loss! the question.. what to do when you get there.. is the question that most struggle with. it is "easier" to lose weight especially if one follows the rule of eat less move more. its the maintaining weight loss that causes issues for some. My secret has been to not lose sight of what I did to get to where I am. I am pretty relaxed Friday and Saturday after 5 about my food and drink intake. But all the other time, I am practicing good nutrition with low calorie food choices but high nutrition. I do some form of activity every single day - even if it is just the 3 miles I do in the morning with my pups. The "problem: in my opinion is that people learn how to diet, but they don't learn the lifestyle change that fitness requires... my two cents for what they are worth...

[Dominique]

24 lb in 8 weeks is impressive indeed, but one could argue it’s too much/too fast. The boundaries for sustainable weight loss I’ve been led to believe make sense are the following:

1) lose no more than 1% of your body weight per week

2) lose no more than 10% of your starting weight in one stretch of weight loss

3) lose for no longer than 3 months before taking a pause

Your starting weight was 217 lbs, so you already lost about 11% of your starting weight in 8 weeks, which is about 1.4% per week. If you lose another 12 lb during the next 8 weeks, you will have lost 16.6% of your starting weight in 3 months.

Based on the above, I would pause, or at the very least slow down for the time being. Long-term sustainability is what matters most.

[gtg947h]

Well, I didn't quite intend to go that fast 🙂  I just figured there was no way the calorie burn numbers could be right, so I targeted numbers that seemed more reasonable.  And with food, I just tried to eat more protein, fewer carbs, and stop eating when I wasn't hungry any more instead of when I felt full.

Turns out, they were right after all.  Oops. <shrug>

Either way, there's a knee in the graph at the beginning of September and my pace has slowed somewhat, though it's still fairly linear.

At this point, I'm getting to the end of the day and Fitbit's saying I have at least a couple hundred calories left to my target (vs. the 1500 it was showing in early August), but I feel sated.  And as much as I like food, I'm not sure I want to go down the road of making myself eat more just to hit a number when I'm already at 2000-2500 for the day.  That's the part that's really getting me--I can't quite believe that I can (much less should) eat more at that point.

Way I figure it, at current pace I'll hit my target just before Thanksgiving (at about the 3.5 month mark), then I can gorge myself for one day without feeling bad, then try to level off the weight and just see if I can maintain it till January and get myself calibrated.  Then I'll see from there if I want to lose any more, or work on gaining muscle, or what. 

What's been interesting is that despite pretty consistent activity levels, my weekly calorie burn has been decreasing in parallel with weight.  It's to be expected with weight loss and acclimation to exercise, of course, but still, it's like "dang it, I'm doing the same thing and getting less for it!"

I made a big weight loss before (240 -> 190) at a similar pace several years ago, and pretty much maintained that weight till we adopted a baby.  Then everything went right out the window.  I think the trick will be less the food, and more maintaining an exercise routine. 

[JimC_99]

Congrats on your weight loss -

I have also lost a good chunk of fat but I have been at it for about 25 weeks now.  I have seen a significant increase in the calories required to lose a pound in the last 4 weeks or so.  Initially it was ~3300 and now it is around 4500.  I measure and weigh all the food and chart BMR, TDEE and the Fitbit calories burned.  I also use the NIH body weight planner on their website which seems to be more accurate than the Fitbit.

[bikerhiker]

I think the main key to a successful weight loss is to do with your personal psychosocial health well being.  Meaning, how peaceful and harmonious you are in the world full of chaos, demands and commitments.  If you are always at peace and in harmony amongst the stress and chaos of what our world brings, meaning you don't get too easily drawn into engaging in epic dramas with people you disagree and events you dislike, then there is a higher likelihood that you will easily loose weight and maintain your satiety longer.  Whether eating the right food or doing the right exercises to me don't see to matter all that much right now.

I had been loosing weight since 3 months ago, but it wasn't a conscious choice.  It was something I felt I needed to do because I had previously resolved some personal psychologies that created the imbalance in my psyche, which led to gaining weight.  After I resolved those imbalances, I started to crave less sugary food and also started to feel satiety much longer.  I also chose food that are healthier and lighter for my body, not make me felt heavy like a big anchor.  And I just recently came back from a spiritual health conference and while they did try their best to serve healthy foods, most of them are large portions.  I did my best to control the portions and when we ate out, most of the time the Mexican food were heavy ladened with sugar, refined carbs and big portions.  I had stabilized my weight around 144lbs and for the 7 days conference, I only did 2 15min weight training (maximum 100% muscle exertion) and since I was basically sitting on my butt for like 8-9 hrs in the conference workshops, I barely register anything on my Fitbit steps.  Fitbit said, I would have gained maybe 2 lbs over 144lbs.  I was shocked to find out that I actually lost 4lbs in just 1 week without even dieting.  Just portion control until I felt satiety, not hunger because you need all the energy you need to survive the intense curriculum of what the conference demanded of me, brain power wise.  So continually working on my psychology is more important to maintain my peace with the world and the surrounding so I react less to the conflict drama and hence less craving for food to give me comfort!  

[lavabelle]

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@bikerhiker wrote:

I think the main key to a successful weight loss is to do with your personal psychosocial health well being.  Meaning, how peaceful and harmonious you are in the world full of chaos, demands and commitments.  If you are always at peace and in harmony amongst the stress and chaos of what our world brings, meaning you don't get too easily drawn into engaging in epic dramas with people you disagree and events you dislike, then there is a higher likelihood that you will easily loose weight and maintain your satiety longer.  Whether eating the right food or doing the right exercises to me don't see to matter all that much right now.

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@bikerhiker I just want to share that my internal peace has definitely increased over the last year...I don't think it's anything I specifically have done, I am not sure there was anything I needed to heal from, but I have noticed I am much more peaceful now as opposed to a year ago, internally. The exception being traffic, I still get really stressed in traffic, I have a long commute and will often opt to take a bus instead of driving because the stress "feels" like it's too much. In general I have a very positive outlook, I am confident about my life and my goals and being able to achieve them, I have hope...I am just wondering if this was a product of making positive changes in my life, choosing to take control over my weight, or if this internal peace had to come first...just wondering from your experience what came first, the internal peace, or the decision to take back control of your weight and then the peace followed...for me I think it was the decision first, then the peace followed.

@gtg947h congrats on your weight loss...I have lost weight about similar to yours, and I enjoy reading your insights...Thanks for sharing and keep sharing if you don't mind. 

[bikerhiker]

@lavabelle

In my experience, I think both ways work the same -- achieve peace and then weight lost or achieve weight loss and then peace and research had shown that both are related to the positive lifestyle changes the person chooses in order to achieve a healthy body with permanent weight loss. 

I think you can always improve one's peace by working on one's fears.  After all, if one person doesn't fear traffic at all and another does, then that's something the needs looking at.  We could all get stronger by transcending the sum of our fears.  In my personal experience, this helps me lose weight easily, because I do not need to eat more to make me feel good and I'm more positive and less grouchy and less dismissive about life's challenges.

[lavabelle]

@bikerhiker that's an interesting insight...that the fear of "traffic" is causing my stress...never saw that before, but this totally makes sense...I find my commute very "dangerous", lots of angry people on the road, lots of road rage incidents over the years....I'm not stressed driving in in other situations, just my daily commute...I have witnessed many tragic accidents over the last few years during this time on this route, and 3 of them were one or two cars in front or behind me...this is totally fear based...thanks for the insight...