09-25-2015 01:04
09-25-2015 01:04
hey, im trying to lose about 44lbs at the moment and i've set my calorie deficit to 1000... i'm eating 2000 and burning 3000 on average, pretty happy i understand that bit. just i read on another forum the other day that for every pound of fat you can deficit 30/31 calories before you start to eat into muscle... this means i could currently go to a calorie deficit of 1320 (30x44) ? i wont do that but what i'm wondering is how often you should change your deficit? when i get to 30 lbs left to lose if im still on a deficit of 1000... times 30lbs by 30calories id be reaching 900 and going into burning muscle? im confused
09-25-2015 08:27
09-25-2015 08:27
@bennynewqs wrote:just i read on another forum the other day that for every pound of fat you can deficit 30/31 calories before you start to eat into muscle... this means i could currently go to a calorie deficit of 1320 (30x44) ? i wont do that but what i'm wondering is how often you should change your deficit? when i get to 30 lbs left to lose if im still on a deficit of 1000... times 30lbs by 30calories id be reaching 900 and going into burning muscle? im confused
Can't say I've ever heard that about the 30/31 calorie thing. That doesn't mean it's right or wrong, just that I haven't heard that.
The standard deficit reccomendation is 1,000 calories for more than 60 pounds to lose, 750 calories for 30-60 lbs, 500 calories for 15-30 pounds and 250 calories for anything less than 15 pounds to lose.
I can't see building muscle with a calorie deficit of 1300 calories while not morbidly obese or completely sedentary (like bordering on bedridden, but I could be wrong. It just feels like you wouldn't be fueling your body enough to actually build muscle.
09-25-2015 08:31
09-25-2015 08:31
I change my deficit every 15 pounds, 1000 to 750 when I hit 30 pounds. Now i'm down 35 pounds and once I hit 40 i'm bumping it down to 500 deficit. I burn around 2500-3000 a day. Honestly, I don't worry to much about the numbers. I base it off how I feel, that has worked great for me.
09-25-2015 08:31
09-25-2015 08:31
This is an excellent question. I would urge you to be very curious about the answers you get. We're all different. I cannot imagine how anyone can tell you at what stage your body begins to use your muscles for energy vs the adipose tissue. This is likely to be different for everyone.
I think - if you wish to minimize the muscle loss and maximize the fat loss - you'll want to break the 2000 caloric intake into 400 or 500 calorie increments. (4 or 5 meals) This way, your body will have some carbs, some proteins and some fats (depending on what you've eaten) to utilize over time - which should protect your muscle tissue.
The complexity of this process, I admit, is beyond me. Since our bodies work harder to maintain muscle than fat, the less you eat, the more your body is likely to start eating your own muscle to survive. I do think if you add weight training to your activities - if that's not present already - it will minimize loss of muscle.
For answers that give exact figures and specifics, I urge you to check the references if given. If not, ask for them.
Great question, though!
09-25-2015 08:35
09-25-2015 08:35
I followed almost exactly what @Raviv described and it worked excellent for me...Just as @Ukase said though, it will depend on your body. You will have to figure out what works best for you. I followed not only the dropping 250 increments for every 15 pounds, but also following what my doctor said. She okayed me being on a 1200 calorie diet, then said to move it up gradually to 1500. I was considered very obese, while you may just be overweight. So many factors come into weight loss it's hard to pinpoint a specific answer.
09-25-2015 12:48
09-25-2015 12:48
You lose fat and muscle whenever you lose weight. Doing strength training and keeping your protein intake up while you're dieting can go a long way to make sure you lose as little of that muscle as possible though.
09-25-2015 12:51
09-25-2015 12:51
@Raviv wrote:
.
I can't see building muscle with a calorie deficit of 1300 calories while not morbidly obese or completely sedentary (like bordering on bedridden, but I could be wrong. It just feels like you wouldn't be fueling your body enough to actually build muscle.
Correct, you're not going to build any appreciable amount of muscle unless you're in a surplus. You can't really do it in any type of deficit.
09-26-2015 10:38 - edited 09-26-2015 17:01
09-26-2015 10:38 - edited 09-26-2015 17:01
I've really grown frustrated with the idea of burning muscle when dieting. It is a position I'd believed and espoused for a long time, but I'm abandoing the convential wisdom as it doesn't really make sense and there are studies that are starting to support the idea that we do not metabolize our muscle tissue.
Even maintaining our fat stores takes energy and loosing fat does, indeed, slow our metabolic process. That doesn't even count the additional energy needed to move that extra weight around. In short, loosing weight does make in harder to loose weight and does slow our metabolic processes, but not because of muscle loss.
Now consider the idea that our ancestors didn't get 3 meals a day and may go a day or two without eating or eating very little. But when the opportunity did present itself to make a kill, they had to have the muscle power to do so. They were also probably actively engaged in finding that opportunity to make a kill, so they needed their muscle power to keep that effort going. It would make sense then that we don't metaboloze muscle tissue and that our bodies are capable of surviving on our fat stores for some time. I did read a study recently that supports this position.
Fast forward to the space age and in support of space station extended stays, NASA discovered that in the absence of muscle activity and work, the muscles will atrophy starting within 3 days of cessation of the work. They had patients lay in bed without moving for weeks at a time and biopsied their muscle tissue. They did the same to astronaunts before and after space trips and discovered the same effect. I would postulate that often as we diet and don't exercise, it is muscle atrophy that gets us rather than muscle metobolism. Combine that with the phenomenom that as we age we loose muscle, that may be attributable to lower excercise rates (which may be aided by reduced hormone - or hormones are reduced cause we don't exercise?? ). There are also evidence that certain exercises actually increase the production of homornes like testosterone and Growth hormones.
The reason we supposedly metabolize muscle is to be able to produce the amino acids necessary for mucsle growth and energy. But if the calories we do eat contain enough protien to provide the nescessary amino acids, then there is no reason to metabolize muscle tissue. This is probably why high protein diets like Atkins and South Beach work as they focus on high protein and low carb. This causes an overal calorie restriction whereby we need to glucose (provided by ketones) energy rather than the amino acids. We burn fat, but not muscle.
So in my mind, the position about calorie restriction causing muscle loss by definition is archaic and invalid. I realize I may get a lot of pushback on this position and some may even offer studies to dispute my position; however, those studies themselves may also be archaic. I use my own self study as evidence in that while loosing weight this year, introduction of weight training has shown gain in strength and not a reduction that would be noted were I metabolizing muscle while dieting. I guess time will judge my position, but in the meantime I will practice and advise based on this premise.
Edit: I was doing a little more research on my new lifestyle of Intermittent Fasting and some of the studies show that among the hormone changes that occur during this is an increase in HGH (growth hormone). The recommendation was to do strength training at the end of your fast to take advantage of these increased levels and the post fast - break-fast meal. This can actually encourage muscle growth.