02-14-2023 03:27
02-14-2023 03:27
I bought my Sense 2 when it came out last year. And I've found it perfectly fine for day to day use. However, I started exercising again on doctors orders and I have to make sure my heart rate doesn't exceed 140bpm in the early stages of my cardio workout. However, when it comes to exercising, it is downright dangerous and not fit for purpose.
It consistently under-monitors my heart rate.
I'm on the elliptical and the fitbit tells me my heartbeat is 81 to 87. It changes (not static) but I can feel my heart going much faster. And then (and this has happened twice now) the heart monitor on the machine gives me a reading of over 200!!! At which point I stop and lo and behold, a few seconds later, the Sense2 heart rate catches up. Also, when I have the fitbit in exercise mode and have the cardio screen up to monitor it every minute, it regularly gives me two dashes, because it can't find my heartbeat!
Has anybody else had this same issues? Am I doing something wrong? This is my health that is at stake.
02-14-2023 03:56 - edited 02-14-2023 03:59
02-14-2023 03:56 - edited 02-14-2023 03:59
Sense 2/Versa 4 shows rather poor performance as HR monitors during exercise. Ideally, if a medical purpose is involved, you should use ANT+ compatible HR monitor (like a PolarH10 chest strap or Polar OH1/VeritySense armband). This is because those devices are a) accurate b) responding quickly c) connecting seamlessly (by proximity, you don't need to do anything but stand on the machine and the HR monitor is detected instantly) to a majority of cardio gym equipment (you see your HR constantly on the machine display).
02-14-2023 09:47
02-14-2023 09:47
I finally concluded the same thing. It seems OK for counting steps and monitoring sleep, but the HR monitor is very erratic during exercise. There is a time lag, it seems to under count most of the time, but then it has these crazy spikes. I was finding it difficult to get into zones--even the fat burn zone. With my Inspire 2, most of my daily activities put me in fat burn. Sense 2 kept telling me I was in excellent cardiovascular health. I just had to cancel a minor surgery because I flunked both my EKG and my Echo. I see a cardiologist tomorrow. I am now using the Sense 2 only for step counting and sleep monitoring. It is just too dangerous to rely on. Once I have consulted with cardiology, I will look for something that better meets my needs.
02-14-2023 21:03
02-14-2023 21:03
Never found a fitness watch (yet) that's good at monitoring your heart rate in any kind of frequent stop/start activity. Hopefully you can pair a chest strap heart rate monitor to it, like I did with my old Garmin.
02-15-2023 04:06 - edited 02-15-2023 04:08
02-15-2023 04:06 - edited 02-15-2023 04:08
@WillNitschke some watches may come close but to be truth, there is no wrist-based sensor that is always accurate. Wrist is probably worst possible place to wear HR sensor. I don't use wrist sensor almost at all during exercising with exception of swimming when I forget Verity Sense (attached to swimming goggles so it's under my cap but comparing to its predecessor PolarOH1, it's also great swim tracker with stroke detection etc.). Garmin is quite good at tracking swimming HR from wrist (and HR is anyway secondary below CSS and pace zones so accuracy isn't that imporant). If athletes prefer using external monitors for accuracy (especially for training with zones) then it comes even more important with any involvement of a medical issues. But to be fair, all manufacturers including Fitbit have a disclaimer saying it is not made for a medical purposes and it's not a medical device and shouldn't be used as such.
02-15-2023 19:42
02-15-2023 19:42
It's not that they are not accurate subject to the usage circumstances. I've always found them to be accurate for any constant (steady state) physical activity such as walking or running. I would assume cycle and so on would also be fine. (But not lots of hills.) They all seem to get confused with stop/start activities, or short frequent changes in pace, such as set based resistance training, HIIT cardio and that sort of thing. It's useful to wear a chest strap heart rate monitor for those activities and monitor how you feel relative to your heart rate. With practice you'll automatically know if you're in 130, 140 or a higher range. I don't use a heart strap any more, but when I'm in a particularly intense phase of a training session I do look at my watch just to see how much it's out by. For example, it might report 130 but I know based on how I feel I'm actually at around 150.
02-16-2023 02:19 - edited 02-16-2023 02:36
02-16-2023 02:19 - edited 02-16-2023 02:36
@WillNitschke this is a lot more complicated. Heart rate may follow RPE and indeed, athletes can (sometimes) predict their HR based on their level of effort but it works mostly within a context of a single sport (and not always). The same level of effort may bring totally different HR when performing another discipline. To simplify, trained runners but untrained cyclists won't be as good at cycling as at running when it comes to aerobic capacity. How does it affect HR? Simple, at some point, beyond an aerobic capacity threshold, the heart stops accelerating because it makes no further difference (no more oxygen can be consumed, ran out of aerobic capacity).
Using myself as a "guinea pig", I find it extremely hard to accelerate my HR beyond 175bpm-176bpm when cycling while when running I can go up to 192bpm. The RPE for cycling, when my HR is around 175bpm approaches 10 within 3 minutes of such interval (it's about 125% of my FTP, close or within the neuromuscular power zone). With the same HR, I can run for an hour+ (this is my threshold for running). So despite I feel like I can't put any more effort when on a bike, my HR is not as high as I would think. It gets even trickier for swimming when HR stays a lot lower. While sprinting freestyle, HR rarely goes beyond 155bpm but it feels like tough, beyond threshold effort. That's why for an athlete who uses HR zones in training an accurate chest strap is pretty much necessary. Additionally, with training the threshold moves and there are more variables like environmental factors (temperature, humidity, air/water resistance etc.), conditioning, sleep/rest etc. In other words, for serious training in endurance sports, using a chest strap is rather mandatory because it's not about glancing every now and then at the HR but working to the heart rate, staying within specified training zone(s). In fact, it's rare to train only by HR but it's more a network of connected strings (power, RPE, HR, pace).
See below, two races, two disciplines (not duathlon, different days so I was fully rested before each event):
Both were race efforts with sprints and surges yet the entire run was performed with HR higher than I could ever keep 2sec+ during a bike race. Now, the 1hr30min power peak for the run was 91%FTP and 92%FTP for cycling (for the entire event, 11 beats less while more effort was put into it). Power is probably the best-known way to quantify effort; the bike race felt tougher. The difference is because my LT for cycling is lower (working on it, took a long break over winter time 🙂 ). It gets even more interesting when you consider structured training (like HIIT) when you need to hold power above a certain threshold. Going all out, it's even more visible what the difference is when it comes to heartbeat, effort and discipline. This is a reason why athletes use different training zones, thresholds and max HR per sport - because one can't fit all. That requires accuracy no wrist sensor on the watch can give you.
Why am I explaining that? One of the things that "grinds my gears" is when I read something like "I'm huffing and puffing so my HR must be out of the roof but it's not" and pointing out that it's an HR error but it doesn't have to be. There is a relation between effort and heart rate but it isn't an absolute relation. It's relative and affected by many factors. I realize that not everyone trains that way but these are common beliefs vs facts backed with evidence. In other words, how you feel is how you feel not your heart 🙂 I can't tell automatically what my HR is by RPE because it may vary quite a lot. I don't know any watch that I could use in the training like that (and my Sense 2 never ever gave me any good readings for cycling, probably cycling is affected worst in my case). When I shop for a new watch, pairing it with external sensors is a mandatory feature.
02-16-2023 09:22
02-16-2023 09:22
@t.parker How does pairing with external devices work? Just curious. My athletic days are far, far in my distant past, and we had no devices then. Perceived exertion was pretty much the only guidepost we had. My interests now are more in health monitoring, but accuracy still matters!
02-16-2023 09:31 - edited 02-16-2023 09:32
02-16-2023 09:31 - edited 02-16-2023 09:32
@SunsetRunner I have been watching some You Tube videos lately from the Quantified Scientist, that you might be interested in. He analyzes the performance of various devices for different purposes, using himself as a guinea pig. There is a recent one on the best devices of 2023 for health monitoring, fitness tracking, sport. There is also one specifically on heart rate accuracy. Mountains of data here!