Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[Robert-H]

@Letmein, this is in regards to your DS patterns post.  The one thing you haven't seemed to mention is your exercise level.  Do you exercise?  Have you noticed if it makes a difference?  

Personally, exercise seems to be an important factor to improve DS among the many factors that affect it.  I have found exercise has improved my DS levels.  It helps mitigate stress.  I feel better and have noticed longer DS sessions and overall DS totals are more consistent or less variable from day to day.  Generally, good workout days translate to good DS days.

Hope it helps.  

[2000190521790]

I've been on this Deep Sleep sight for several years. I too have had issues with insomnia since the age of 25. I am now 69. I've tried the gamut of approaches including having my hormones checked, breathing, Biofeedback, meditation, Yoga, walking, jogging, running, valerian, no caffeine, no sugar, no chocolate, no blue lights, ashwaganda, astralagus, biotin, boron, Co12, D2, Evening Primrose, ProBiotics, Saw Palmetto, Turmeric, melatonin, Fiber Therapy, cherry juice, bananas, kiwis, a CD of my brain waves made to music, not eating or exercising 3 hrs. before bedtime, hot baths, warm milk, no electronics of any kind in bedroom, cool temperatures, sleep clinic, hypnosis, and various gummies. For most of my adult life, I was on a crazy schedule having to be at work by 6:30 a.m. after a 1&1/2 hr. drive. The last 10 yrs. I was put on Ambien and like everyone else on Ambien, became addicted. When I found out I was retiring, I went cold turkey, off of Ambien, (YAY!!)  I'm mostly Pescatarian, and jog 5 or more miles a day.  I bought my first Fitbit HR about 3 years ago. There were problems over the next years with the band constantly breaking, the device not recording my sleep especially if under 2 1/2 hours, the ridiculous Sleep Score that only frustrated and added to sleep anxiety, and there being no weekly total for Deep Sleep unless I kept my own log, which I diligently did.                                                                                                              Finally, I was convinced by others who have the OURA RING to purchase it. After having to shell out for a new Fitbit, the OURA RING was no more expensive. I can say I am very pleased with it on all accounts. The accuracy of ongoing readouts and the professionalism of the support team are unbeatable!! I highly recommend it as it solved many problems including now knowing I actually do get on the average of 47 min. of Deep Sleep, nightly. Not, the low scores Fitbit eked out of their readings, occasionally.  Sorry Fitbit, your device gave me agita. 

[Ray94903]

Wow that's quite a history, and agreed, the Fitbit is not the best device for tracking sleep. However, I've been with them from the beginning, and as you say through all the broken wrist bands resulting in lost Fitbits, itchy wrist bands and the like, but it gives me what I need, and now I've figured out the clock faces, in the format I need, so I guess I'll be sticking with them at lease until Apple comes up with something smaller than Big Ben for my wrist!

[Letmein]

Hi Robert, thanks for taking the time to query about my situation.

I do exercise quite a bit. I do over 100k steps a week average. I run, cycle, swim and do hiit classes. 

If anything, the pattern I've noticed is that the more exercise I do, the worse is my DS. Saying that, it hasn't been the case this past two weeks, I've done little exercise and still little DS. 

What I can't explain is that more and more often, the DS I get is later in the night rather than soon after falling asleep as expected. Last night I didn't get any until 4am, that is after I'd been awake for 2h. I don't struggle to fall asleep at all in the evening, and follow all the above recommendations. 

[Letmein]

Ultimately, whether the Fitbit is accurate or not is not so relevant to me. What matters is how I feel each day and what I definitely know is that there is a direct correlation. I've even recorded how I felt and guessed how much DS I thought I had for acoyoke of weeks and oy checked the app afterwards. My record was amazingly accurate. 

I feel okish if I get 1h DS, normal as I used to if I get 1h30. I struggle under 1h and am useless under 30mns.

Whether I get twice or half that doesn't change that I don't get enough the majority of days and having done absolutely everything recommended, having followed a sleep programme,  even currently doing a mindfulness course, nothing, absolutely nothing helps and I just don't know why. 

[Linrab]

I walk 10000 steps a day and move every hour but, I do not have a regular
exercise routine.

[Glenda]

The Massachusetts Institute of Tech just did a sleep study in India that you can google if you are interested.  I enjoyed learning they found there were no positive changes in just sleeping more at night.  You are better off  getting better quality sleep or TAKING A NAP.  Naps improve productivity, cognitive function and psychological well being.  I take naps.

[Letmein]

According to the sleep consultants I did the sleep programme with, naps are the worse things to do trying to sort out insomnia. That's the problem, so many different views on the matter! Not that I could take naps anyway, I work full time.

I totally agree about sleep quality though. It took me some time to understand why I felt so bad every morning despite sleeping 8h each night. It's not until I got the Fitbit that I realised my deep sleep recordings were so much lower than the average for my age.

I am now starting to question whether I suffer from general anxiety disorder. I don't feel that I am an anxious person in that I don't make a drama of getting on with unknown situations and myife is now so removed of triggers anyway. But I do overthink a lot, I do feel tense a lot, mostly unconsciously and I do always anticipate everything, is that a sign of anxiety?

[Linrab]

Thanks I have started taking at least a 30 minute nap on most days.

[cheese_master]

thats becasue you are sus

[ateamsis06]

For me I notice that on days when I work late and get up early I only average about 6 hours of sleep. When I have my 2 days off I strive for the normal 7.5 to 8 hours. Excellent articles and information that you provided. Thank you.

[Linrab]

I do sleep better when I am more active early in the day. I have started
intermittent fasting. Not eating after 7 pm helps also.

[Aismoc]

I have now stopped working on computer at night. This is to reduce
bluemlighy. Also app on phone stops colour after 10. Screen is then black
and white. Still sometimes only 20mins deep sleep. This is inspite loads of
exercise outdoor. This includes seaswimming!!

[Linrab]

Me to. I was playing a game on my tablet, while sitting in bed trying to
get sleepy. I then had a very restless night.

[AnnaMccoy]

I'm a 40yo working female. On an SSRI (Lexapro), but have no major other wellness problems. I have actually started to come to be concerned since my deep sleep data are far listed below the standard for ladies my age. On a regular night, I obtain between 25 minutes-1 hour of deep rest. It's normally either also tiny of a percent to show, or concerning 12% of my complete rest. My rapid eye movement stats are regular and I rest 6-7 hrs an evening, 8-9 on weekend breaks.

[ParallaxView]

Do you take chromium? Do you take any pre-workout drinks? Herba maté can really mess up your deep sleep.

Vitamins with glycinate have really helped me, like calcium glycinate, magnesium glycinate, and zinc glycinate. I don't like Now zinc glycinate because it upsets my stomach.

I also appear to do better, if I have taken Zirtec in the morning.

Get Outlook for Android

[Ray94903]

I've been taking Melatonin delayed-release 3mg or 5mg. After flying there and back to the UK, it also helped with jet lag. 

[Bobcat931]

I was on Lexapro briefly but quit due to side effects. Also read that it can cause sleep disruption. Have you tried any other SSRIs?

[Aaron123456]

Good one janet

[Linrab]

Thanks my daughter recommended GNC PRO Zinc magnesium before bed. I took
one last night and slept better.