Many "wakeful" periods - bad sleep or is "sensitive setting" wrong for me?

[andreabrie]

I never thought I got bad sleep until I monitored my sleep with fitbit!  I consistently get sleep efficiencies in the 50-60% range and have over two hours and between 10 and 15 wakeful periods a night.  On the other hand, when I use the "normal" setting, fitbit says I slept all night without waking up and I know that's not true either.  Suggestions?  Do I need to talk to my doctor about this?

[Fit_4_Life]

Hi Colin,

In the end, I did get hold of the sleep psychologist so will get to see what he came up with next month. Meanwhile, my sleep has improved w/ the cpap. Also, I find all the sleep hygiene stuff you talk to very helpful. The elimination of screens in the bedroom helps, reading, mindfulness, moving to less light and more relaxation as the evening progresses, all that stuff.

Have you tried some version of magnesium? I think that is helping my sleep these days a little bit too.

I hear you re: the book...by the time we resolve an issue like this that has so many components, we have become a bit of an expert on the topic...

Marianne

[Sleepybob]

If your fitbit data are correct, 15 or so awakenings/night is to high a number as is 2 hours of lost sleep.  Your sleep time should be in the 7-8 hour range with few awakenings.  What you might try next is a voice recorder to determine whether your awakenings are due to snoring.  A key indicator of the quality of your sleep in the number and length of day time naps or simply day time sleepiness.  Do you lack energy or are easily tired by relatively minor activity?  Do you sleep on your back?  Are youover weight?

[JuliaC]

Hi Ceece -

Like you, I can sleep 12+ hours and still not feel rested. I bought the Fitbit One to help track my sleep and I've completed the first week (on normal). Sleep efficiency is very high and number of hours asleep should be plenty for any "normal" person - but I am still tired. I'm going to try it on sensitive for a week and compare the two. I have EBV (Epstein Barr) but my naturopath doesn't think that is what is causing the fatigue and I don't think it's apnea - so we're at a bit of a stand off.

After reading 8 pages of posts - I see I'm not alone in feeling tired but I also see that there most likely isn't anything that will help.

Good luck to everyone!

Julia

[petitmiam]

I've also been having problems with restless sleep and basically not getting enough.

The button on my first edition Fitbit was getting a bit non-responsive, so I kept thinking I was in sleep and wasn't, also I got a bit forgetful about setting it, and because it wasn't wireless I had to go onto my computer to put in my sleep. I got a Flex last week which is a bit easier to remember to put into sleep mode probably because it's new and exciting, so I've been tracking my sleep every night for a week.

I'm averaging about 6 hours a night, up from 5 when I first got a Fitbit, and 4 on the 4pm-midnight shift. I'm doing that shift next week so it will be interesting. It's really quite difficult to fit in sleep around work, as I work about one night a week on call, one week in seven on the night shift and one weekend day every three weekends on call for 24 hours.

I have been trying to get better sleep lately. I've got new blue light blocking glasses that I put on an hour or two before bedtime and keep on until the light goes off, at which point I replace them with a good-quality sleep mask (expensive blackout one not a free airline giveaway one). Because I just can't seem to not watch TV or play on my iPad before bed, and that light is really bad for sleep. I never turn the lights on to go to the bathroom at night. I've also cut out all coffee after about midday, I might still have a cup of tea in the afternoon, but the major caffeine sources are off the menu. I have replaced my morning coffee with decaffeinated coffee, except when I have had a bad night working and I just need that extra little kickstart. It all seems to be helping, now I've just gotta get into bed a bit earlier at night.

I used a sleep recorder on my phone the other night, lots of light snoring, I think it must've been the cat. No, seriously I had a really blocked nose from allergies so I'm not too surprised about that. What I was surprised at was that it sounded like I was gasping for breath several times during the night. I don't think I'm at risk for sleep apnoea at all, I'm a bit overweight (BMI of 28), I have a slender neck, but I'm under 40 (just) and I thought the snoring was just because my nose is always blocked. I can't get a sleep study done where I live. I do have asthma, could this be what is causing the gasping?

The dropcam study in this forum was interesting, might be interesting to try one of those on myself. I have two cats hopping on and off and in and out of the bed all night, could be good to see what they're doing while I'm asleep. Also I used to sleepwalk as a child, and there was an incident a few years back that could only be explained by sleepwalking: I let my cat out, went to sleep, woke up the next morning and the cat was asleep on the bed. There are no other people in the house, there was no catdoor, and no windows or doors open. With Fitbit I've worked out the number of steps to the bathroom, so I will be able to see the next morning if there is an extraordinary number of steps on there. I just hope I'm not going out onto the road at night.

[Sleepybob]

Gasping for breath could be due to apnea, hypopnea, asthma. There is also
the possibility of RLS which would be
indicated by a high movement score in your record. For the moment, take a
look at the state of your airway using the Malampati procedure as a guide
to estimating the degree of crowding. Obstruction in your nasal passages
will guarantee snoring at some level since the nose is the preferred route
to the lungs during sleep. Obstruction in your nasal passages leads to
opening your mouth wide with the result that you tongue slides back to the
soft palate thereby initiating vibration. For the time being, try sleep on
your side, elevated at about 30 degrees. Clear your nose with a salt
solution.

Dr. Bob Ph. d.

[colin99]

Hi Julia, you can flip between "normal" and "sensitive" with the existing data. If you edit the sleep data, it lets you change between the two for the existing records. For me, I almost think the right number is an average of the two - sensitive comes in at 2-3 hours typically and normal is 6-7 hours (always in the 90's for sleep efficency). I toss and turn alot during the night and still need to get more sleep in general. 

Colin

[Sleepybob]

The average for changing sleep position over an 8 hour night is around 13.  When you get into much higher numbers there is the possibility for RLS.  The prime indicator of poor sleep is day time sleepiness and inadvertent napping or napping more than 20-30" on any day.  The longer the nap, the greater your sleep deficit.  Healthy sleep is around 7-8 hours/day.  Vigilence is another good marker.

Napping can be OK, particularly if it occurs during your daily down time, e. g., 3:00 PM.

Post again on the properties of your sleep:  regular sleep times,. asthma, over weight,  crowded airway, snoring, and so on.  A recorded movement does not necessarily indicate a wakeful period.

Sleepy Bob

[RASmith0185]

I have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine. I use the sensitive setting on the Fitbit.  I think it's pretty accurate and the amount of sleep it is showing is in line with what my body tells me I am getting... which isn't enough!  

[Sleepybob]

Marianne,

Based on formal scientific studies, you might expect that roughly 50% of individuals with OSA will find relief by turning to side sleeping as well as by increasing sleep angle to 30 degrees.  But for some the shift might worsen the problem.  One gadget, the Rematee is designed to aid side sleeping; I once used 2 tennis balls in an apron.  Consider a watch that measures your 02 levels over the course of sleep to see how you are doing in that domain.  For insomnia you might try 5 mg of slow release melatonin one hour before sleep followed by 5 mg of fast dissolve Mel. in the 15 or 20" before you expect to fall asleep.  Mel. half life is about 20-40" so be ready for a boost of fast dissolve on early awakening.  Use liquid Mel for that missed hour in the morning.  As you can see, making effective use of Mel. is a learning process.  10,000+ steps well before bed time should help.  Do not take this as medical advice; this account is based on poersonal experience as well as research on melatonin.

Sleepy Bob

[JuliaC]

Colin99 -

I didn't realize you could do that. Thanks for the info!

I just went and compared the two and I honestly can't believe there is that much of a difference between the two. On the sensitive I'm only getting 5 or so hours of sleep. I am certainly dealing with day time sleepiness (but don't nap), but I'm having difficulty believing that something strapped to my wrist is that accurate. I'm trying to figure out why I'm always tired (didn't used to be this way), but I don't have symptoms of sleep apnea. A sleep study is expensive and I'm skeptical that I could fall asleep with all those wires attached to me - so after the hassle and money it may not tell me anything. It's all a bit frustrating.

[Sleepybob]

Without more data, one question I have is do you snore? 2. Is you
breathing constrained as in hypopnea? 3. Do you sleep on your back? 4. Do
you drink a lot of coffee? 5. Is there someone nearby who might hear
interruptions in breathing? 6. What about your airway architecture? (With
your tongue hanging out but not projected, can you see clearly to the back
of your pharynx?). Day time
fatigue and sleepiness is a clear indication of a sleep problem. 7. Do you
sleep on your side? 8. sleep angle @ 30 degrees?
9. nasal congestion?

There are many more questions that can be asked. A PSG, as you fear, can
keep you awake all night. Your fitbit data is the most natural record of
you sleep that you can get without going to a lab. Look up hypopnea and
UARS (upper airway resistance
syndrome). Snoring is linked with arousals (unconscious).

ROR

[colin99]

Hi JuliaC, I did two sleep studies over the course of about 5 years. I had the exact same concerns you had about not being able to properly sleep there (and I didn't really think I did sleep well while at the clinics). They both came back with about the same data findings but the second study concluded that I have apnea and prescribed a cpap machine. I'm still working on getting used to the device. At the clinic I slept on my back but at home I sleep on my side which makes a difference for apnea (at least in some people from what I've read). I felt I slept very poorly in both tests but the numbers they came back with weren't that bad. 

It's interesting that your numbers are similar for sensitive and normal; mine are so different from each other! I think I don't sleep very soundly so it skews the numbers (my job used to phone in the middle of the night and I had some personal issues that forced me to be ready to get up at any time for years).  

I try to take the measurements with a grain of salt - I don't really think it's terribly accurate either but it gives me something to compare month over month and I do notice differences on evenings when I'm overly stressed or have other things that keep me up so it's pseudo-accurate. I've looked into other devices but I'm starting to come to the conclusion that all the personal use devices can only give so much data and really can't solve the problem. The Withings Aura seemed to have great potential but the user reviews aren't very good.  I'm waiting for the day when there's devices that can check vitamin levels and such and say "you're low on this compound" 🙂 

[JaxJ]

When I have sensitive tracker on, I track 2-3 hours of sleep a night, but when I have normal tracker on, I track 8-9 hours. Normal tracker isn't accurate- it logged that I was asleep during times I know I was moving around. I don't feel like I'm getting bad sleep on the nights when I have sensitive tracker on, so I assume it's picking up on my partner or my dog. I would love to see a "medium sensitivity" setting, or that normal was a little more sensitive. 

[GoldaT]

Hi, Zee. Having been in your shoes (so to speak), I would suggest you speak to your doctor about having a sleep test to see if you have any sleep problems.  Before I had my sleep test, which diagnosed sleep apnea,   I was up several times during the night to go to the washroom.  This has been alleviated somewhat (and I hope it will further improve) since my diagnosis of sleep apnea and since I've been using the CPAP machine to keep me breathing through the night.  I've been told that sleep apnea can cause us to wake up to go to the washroom. Last sleep record (by Flex) showed that I slept a bit over 6 hours with one wake up --- this is my best record since getting the FitBit Flex in November.  Best of luck to you and Happy Holidays/New Year. Golda T.

[zuzuzuzu]

Hi I just recieved my fit bit. I am 56 year old woman. My fit bit sleep is on sensitive and it showed i was restless 58 times last night. I was in bed 8 hrours and only slept 4.53 hrs. This seems to be my sleep pattern for the last 4 days since I got the fit bit. YIKES

[GoldaT]

I don't know if the sensitive setting is right for you but it might be a
good idea to check with your doctor if you have a history of restless sleep
patterns --- four days is not enough to make a decision about settings. I
had my FitBit Flex set for sensitive because I'd had a long-term pattern of
bad sleeps and had been finding myself exhausted during the day, easily
fatigued and desperately in need of naps during the day --- further
upsetting my nighttime sleep. The sensitive setting showed me that I was
indeed having interrupted sleeps during the night. A sleep test confirmed
this and I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I've since been using a CPAP
machine which keeps me breathing and my sleep pattern has somewhat improved
in that I'm no longer needing many naps during the day and I find I can
last longer during the day in order to complete tasks and participate in
life. I'm not suggesting that you have sleep apnea but that you probably
should discuss your sleep issues with your doctor. Best of luck to you and
may the coming year be filled with many good sleeps.

[nana01]

I received a FitBit Flex for Christmas and it wouldn't go into sleep mode at all.  I took it back to the store where it was purchase.  They were sold out of Flex's so I upgraded to a Charge.  Searching on line I saw many people with the same problems with sleep mode.   If you go to YouTube and search for Flex sleep mode they will have some videos of what it looks like and how it responds when in sleep mode.

[JavaGypsy]

My readings are very similar to yours.  I do know that I have been waking up not feeling like I've been sleeping well.

[GoldaT]

Sorry to hear that you're having similar issues. My advice is to talk to
your doctor regarding a sleep test or medicaion. I would suggest medication
as a last resort if sleep test shows nothing. Golda T.

[AnneMargar]

This discussion was very helpful to me.  I have been tracking my sleep using the Sleep Quality app as it shows me "the different levels of sleep" for each evening.  But I was finding that the app would say that I slept 8 hours, but I would wake up feeling so tired.  So I tracked my sleep using the Fitbit in sensitive mode and it told me that I was restless 22 times last night and even though I was in bed for 9:15, I actually only slept for 4:58.  I did feel that I was tossing and turning all night and the Fitbit now shows me how I was really sleeping.  I hope to try different things to get better sleep quality - stop drinking alcohol, exercise more, meditation, perhaps cut out all caffeine (right now I just consume 2 6oz cups first thing in the morning). Well, thanks again for this converstation.!!