VO2max for Fitbit Blaze

[TheOkeland]

As an idea for an update would be to integrate calculating the VO2max on the Fitbit Blaze, like the charge 2 does.

[Lordrobs]

I'm very surprised that they have gone down the VO2 max route based on wrist based heart rates. There is a reason that other brands that have VO2 max calculation on their devices that are equipped with wrist based HR require a connected chest strap for that feature to work.

[richiescarfo]

It seems very strange that the Blaze and other trackers do not "allow" this on the FitBit dashboard - as far as I can tell, the Charge 2 collects the exact same data as the Blaze, so it's just a software holdout as far as I can imagine. 

Perhaps after the marketing push of the CHarge 2 as the 'only' VO2 Max FitBit tracker it will quietly make its way to the other FitBits. 

[poume]

I don't mind paying for the Charge 2 even though I just bought the Blaze less than a month ago but I can't have two devices on my wrist. I have an Apple watch in the drawer because I prefer the Fitbit ecosystem but this issue is really disappointing.

[bbarrera]

Look at my post here - it has a reference to a study that came up with a simple formula you can use to estimate VO2max.

I'm guessing that Fitbit uses that formula or similar from another study.

The formula is simple

VO2max-estimated = 15.3 * HRmax / RHR

Here's how it works using my data:

HRmax = 172bpm (field tested)

RHR = 65bpm ("field" tested by checking pulse after waking up)

40.5 = VO2max-estimated using measured RHR and HRmax = 15.3 * HRmax / RHR = 15.3*172/65

38.9 = VO2max-estimated using measured RHR and "HRmax = 220-age"

41 = my last field tested VO2max (not a max effort, I suspect its slightly higher)

Blaze appears to use different RHR algorithm according to Wareable Charge 2 review "We found the Blaze often tracked RHR too high, so this is an improvement over previous versions." If true, then Blaze would need firmware update to change RHR algorithm to align with Charge 2, and support VO2max estimation.

[richiescarfo]

I know that I can calculate it (and have 🙂 there's lots of easy web calculators out there. 

The issue is that FitBit seems to be holding back functionality for older devices that should be provided with legacy ones. FitBit has been good about updating the devices over time (the Charge HR improved significantly over the 16 months I used it), and I hope that happens here too. 

[bbarrera]

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@richiescarfo wrote:

I know that I can calculate it (and have 🙂 there's lots of easy web calculators out there. 

The issue is that FitBit seems to be holding back functionality for older devices that should be provided with legacy ones. FitBit has been good about updating the devices over time (the Charge HR improved significantly over the 16 months I used it), and I hope that happens here too. 

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VO2max is interesting in an academic sort of way. Its something you are born with, a ceiling on your potential as an endurance athelete. Mine is low enough that I'm not ever going to be a world class runner, swimmer, or cyclist. But what I can do is train and increase my pace or power just below my threshold.

Agree with you about Fitbit holding back functionality, something it seems comes from the CEO and just doesn't sit right with me.

[poume]

I would rather pay $300 for the Blaze initially and never have the thought that the device is held back by marketing considerations. Basically, Fitbit should never withhold software updates when the hardware allows it.

[bbarrera]

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@poume wrote:
I would rather pay $300 for the Blaze initially and never have the thought that the device is held back by marketing considerations. Basically, Fitbit should never withhold software updates when the hardware allows it.

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The $250 Surge feels like a failed experiment at this point. So thats what I did and 15 months ago put my money into an Apple Watch that continues to get better with every software and app release. And it was immediately more useful in the office, around the house, and while working out than any Fitbit I've owned (Flex, Force, and still have Surge and Blaze).

[advoWade]

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@Lordrobs wrote:

I'm very surprised that they have gone down the VO2 max route based on wrist based heart rates. There is a reason that other brands that have VO2 max calculation on their devices that are equipped with wrist based HR require a connected chest strap for that feature to work.

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MS Band 2 has VO2 Max and doesn't use a chest strap.

[Rich_Laue]

As for marketing considerations of comoanies, this happens with every item ever marketed. 

[bbarrera]

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@bbarrera wrote:

The formula is simple

VO2max-estimated = 15.3 * HRmax / RHR

Here's how it works using my data:

HRmax = 172bpm (field tested)

RHR = 65bpm ("field" tested by checking pulse after waking up)

40.5 = VO2max-estimated using measured RHR and HRmax = 15.3 * HRmax / RHR = 15.3*172/65

38.9 = VO2max-estimated using measured RHR and "HRmax = 220-age"

41 = my last field tested VO2max (not a max effort, I suspect its slightly higher)

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49 = field test on October 4, 2016 (about 11 months after the 41 score). 

(updating as I will buy and test Charge 2 when the Connected GPS bugs get fixed)

Notes: on Tuesday I did a 30 minutes of Steady State intervals (3x6/3) on a stationary bike at the gym, which is enough for my bike computer to estimate VO2max. Our local gym just upgraded from the official spin bikes to a high-end stationary bike (Stages SC3) that has a power-meter used by pro cyclists and this years Tour de France winner. My Garmin Edge 520 bike computer will estimate VO2max and FTP when paired with power meter and HRM. The VO2max algorithm was licensed from Firstbeat (and in 40+ devices). Firstbeat is a company founded in 2002 and focused on heart rate analysis (HRV, VO2max, etc) solutions. 

[OptimusJarrod]

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-fitbit-blaze-is-getting-updated-with-features-from-the-charge-2-ces-20...

[Rich_Laue]

Interesting @bbarrera the link to FirstBeat does not nention Fitbit. 

[Colinm39]

@bbarrera  Thanks for the explanation and formulae...I have been waiting like many for the Blaze release of the features promised and it will be important for Fitbitters to wear their HR trackers while asleep to enable a consistent RHR.

See this link that   where @DerrickS has linked articles. I'm surprised that Fitbit haven't got more in their documentation because it is a very important part of our fitness progress.

I have found at my age because of my low RHR, and the tests I use on my Polar, have me at Elite athlete level. I have just been passed again on my annual checkup and over the years my doctors tell me I'm genetically programmed that way.

The formula in your post gives me the same V02Max as the Polar test

41.28 = VO2max-estimated using measured RHR and HRmax = 15.3 * HRmax / RHR = 15.3*143/53

Here is the table from Polar

For the test to be valid, certain conditions must be met:

• It should be performed first thing in the morning
• You and your testing environment should be relaxed and calm
• You should not eat, smoke or drink 2 to 3 hours prior to the test
• No talking or coughing allowed during the test
• Any alcohol, drugs, or strenuous exercise from the previous day can affect the results
• When you repeat the test it should always be done under the same conditions

[bbarrera]

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@bbarrera wrote:

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VO2max is interesting in an academic sort of way. Its something you are born with, a ceiling on your potential as an endurance athelete. Mine is low enough that I'm not ever going to be a world class runner, swimmer, or cyclist. But what I can do is train and increase my pace or power just below my threshold.

@Colinm39 I stand by this statement after re-reading the scientific literature and getting some experience with VO2max estimation using my Garmin bike computer and power meter and heart rate monitor. The first estimate was 49 and after a few sessions it settled down to 41 for the month of October. It dipped a little thru December, and then back to 41 in January and 42 in February. This is easy to see in Garmin Connect because you can bring up weekly and monthly graphs to see trends. Weight did not change during this timeframe.

For 2017 VO2max increased about 2% (from 41 to 42), while my 20 minute max sustained power was unchanged. However my 1 hour sustained power jumped over 10% and that was clear from increases in average speed on my flat 2 hour training route, and my performance on fast 1+ hour group rides.

While it would be nice to get VO2max on the Blaze, I fail to see any practical use for someone preparing for an upcoming 10km run event or cycling event. Sustained pace (running) and power (cycling) are the proper training metrics, and if VO2max increases thats great but its not the goal.

[Colinm39]

@bbarrera Your opening para from your previous post sums up what my first GP, long departed told me.. He was of similar build and said, "You and I are born with ducks legs, broad shoulders, heavy boned and are the work horses, we can work/walk all day, lift heavy things, run but never be sprinters, but endure". He said that over 50 years ago and he lived into his 90's.

A similar thing when I was 45, I was selected to be part of a "middle aged overweight onset diabetes group" for 3 months, to test the affects of varying food types in omega 3's etc. The specialists found my blood flow doubled, well over the rest of the group. In discussions at the end of the period they summed it up with a simple statement, "blame your parents, you are genetically built that way"

So, today was the results of my annual checkup and the doctor said "Go out and enjoy life, there is nothing wrong with you, your bloods and BP are perfect, just lose a little weight". Then he added, "there is too much fashionitus out there, everyone is measuring their BP at home etc"....

But I will keep using the Blaze as an Activity Device and also use the Polar H7 chest strap with Polar Beat for more concise HR.  Also HRV Elite with Kubios Software for my heart rate variability (HRV)... All free and the last combination picks up my missing heat beats.@

@DominiqueLetting you know I'm a month into HRV...

[bbarrera]

VO2max over last 6 months ("Cardio Fitness Score")

Graph (from Garmin Connect) of my cycling VO2max estimate based on data from power meter and chest strap, 

VO2max estimate has been hovering at 42 or 43 for about 2 months now, and the formula "15.3 * HRmax / RHR" is giving a score of 41 (HRmax = 175; RHR = 65).