Why Vegan

[essieL]

Someone close to me has recently become a vegan. I'd like to know a little more about it. What are your reasons to be a vegan? What are some of the positives but also some of the negatives?

Thanks for your input 

[carcand]

That is not a fact. People have been eating whole foods plant based since the beginning of time. There is just a name for it now.

[carcand]

It isn't that hard and you do not have to be a super creative master chef. Just eat a variety of fruits, veggies, grains, and beans.

[carcand]

Do your research! Do not listen to a bunch of people who are not vegan telling you how to be a vegan. I have been vegan for 9 years. I am not nutrient deficient, I do not need meat for protein, I am not sickly, I am not some super creative super chef, and I control my weight and my MS with the foods I eat. If it is something that interests you there are plenty of books and websites that will help you and give you good information. The Kind Diet, Forks Over Knives, The Starch Solution, Skinny B***ch, China Study...

[carcand]

Be careful with too much oil, it isn't good for you. Eat all things in their original form and you will be fine.

[MagsOnTheBeach]

I am not vegan or vegetarian, but I'm going to do the 21 day challenge by UC Davis after Thanksgiving with my daughter. She is a teen athlete so I let her know she can always have anything healthy to eat, so if she wants a meat product, I'll buy and make it for her.  But she is willing, I'm willing and we are going to give it a shot.  

Why? Curiosity, variety, and it looks pretty easy (they give you all the recipes and plan the meals and give you shopping lists).  I'm an omnivore but use whole foods - no boxed or frozen meals - so this is not a stretch for us.  Why not try it if it doesn't change how you feel in a negative way and you feel well-nourished? 

I think the part that confuses me is why you have to understand or validate their reasons?  If they are close to you, the best response would be: Great, how can I be a better friend and support you with your new way of eating?  I mean even if their reason is nutty, it shouldn't matter.

[SunsetRunner]

I think being more creative about food comes natural ( hence it becomes "invisible" ) if you already know your food. However, if taking into account going vegan, not being vegan, which is a sort of later stage then making a food that tastes good and find its variety is quite challenging for a "beginner". As I said, I'm not vegan but I'm mostly plant-based eater. What now comes naturally, before didn't. Mind that somebody switching to veganism probably knows plants only because of eating deep-fried fries and seing some decorative garnish ( and probably wasn't sure if the garninsh was edible 😉 ). This state of confusion appears whenever we approach an unknown territory. Being creative with planys means going outside the zone of salads. Most of the people think plants = salads only. Wen one of my friends asked me about my eating habits and I mentioned my "plant-based" eating, she said, "I couldn't be living just on salads". This is how most of the people perceive "eating plants", not mentioning going to the end of the line and becoming vegan. It sounds like a huge sacrifice to them. That's why I emphasized a food creativity ( which for some reason, we're lacking in any kind of meals - including meat ). Once in a while, I go to the farmer's market. When I see a plant that I don't know ( usually imported exotic stuff ) I buy it and think later what I'm gonna do with it. This is how one may learn that plants don't mean salads-only. To be honest I don't even miss meat and I don't look for any replacement for it because there are so many other flavours that there is nothing really to miss. I didn't turn away from meat though ( so I won't call myself even a vegetarian ) and if it comes to it, I may go for a steak or burger once a month. Although the proportions have shifted towards plants on my plate.

That's why I think this topic emerged. It's hard to understand that it's possible to live without meat-based products and since it looks as if it was a big sacrifice, the people ask why. Afterall there must be a reason behind every step we take. Telling somebody "Just eat a variety of fruits, veggies, grains, and beans." doesn't really give any explanation or nudge toward the veganism. It may work totally opposite because for most of the people these for groups of foods are so unknown as a surface of the Moon and in fact, it takes some creativeness to prepare meals. I didn't realize before, but lots of people have no idea they can eat vegetables raw. In my wife's country that's a common thinking - people don't eat vegetables almost at all, and if do - never raw! ( cooked vegetables and fruits are great but some of them are just too delicious raw to be cooked ) 🙂 My wife learnt in the UK that a salad may be made of only raw vegetables and what matters is its composition of flavours. There's a lot of basic knowledge that in fact, people don't know.

I may be not a vegan ( so I understand my opinion probably doesn't matter 😉 ), but isn't the point to make something more appealing if we want people to at least consider more plants in their diet? What pushed me towards going "plant-based" was an existing scientific evidence binding colorectal cancer ( I have a great chance to have it due to genetics ) with meat and before, my incredible high level of the cholesterol and triglycerides. I have seen lots of documentaries about going vegan, vegetarian or plant-based and I find many of them misleading, filled with pseudo-science, biased ( like for example What The Health, which seems to be even despised among vegans ). But on the other hand, we got documentaries like Joe Cross's "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" or Michael Pollan's "In Defense of Food" ( there are a book and the documentary, same as for "Forks over knives" ) which despite not being a "propaganda material on veganism undercover" brings the very positive message and may push somebody to make this first step and change something in their diet. Moreover, they may answer few questions starting with "why" 🙂

[bcloyd2]

First of all, kudos on your decision to look into vegan. There is definitely a lot of misinformation out there. There's also not one "diet" that suits all. However, true veganism isn't a diet but a lifestyle change. Vegan is primarily an ethical term - the avoidance of animal products in food and all items used in one's life. There are terms like "dietary vegan" which are meant to distinguish those who may not stop wearing leather or fur, etc., but I think those collude the term itself.

A plant-based diet, as it appears many previous comments are, is your best solution for health. I've never heard of a plant-based diet including meat or dairy, as some mention, but I suppose people utilize the term as they see fit. The difference between vegan and plant-based is that vegans merely avoid the use of animal products, with no restrictions on nutrition, whole plant-based people eat only things that come from plants. A vegan could technically eat potato chips and Oreos everyday and be vegan, but not healthy. One can also be both - a plant-based vegan - where they have the ethical standpoint for the animals but they also choose whole, plant-based foods.

There are tons of great books and also some good movies. Forks Over Knives is what jumpstarted my research into a vegan lifestyle. There are other movies that come highly recommended in the vegan community like Earthlings and Cowspiracy, but I've not seen them to recommend. What the Health also has a lot of good information but it is pretty biased and scare-tacticy, which turned me off of it a bit. Go into them with an open mind.

The easiest way to stay vegan is to commit to your ethical principles. Once your brain actually makes the connection of where your food comes from and the steps it takes to get there, you will find it much easier to "quit" meat and dairy. I'm not saying vegan is easy - it's not at all. But, if you choose natural ingredients, whole foods, and you eat a variety of colors on your plate each day, you will get all of your nutrients (except B12 - that's the one vitamin vegans need to supplement) and you will feel better.

Since going vegan, I sleep better, I've had more energy throughout the day, and it's much easier to get out of bed in the mornings. It can be expensive unless you buy in season fruits and veggies only, and you definitely do need to diversify your eating habits to get a good range of nutrients, but I think it's totally worth it.

[essieL]

Thanks Brittany. You seem well informed and it was helpful. 

[GershonSurge]

Vegan implies ethical concerns, and vegans may or may not eat a healthy diet. That's why those who follow a Whole Food Plant Based way of eating don't like to call themselves vegan as it doesn't describe the way of eating:

(According to Dr. McDougall. It's essentially the same as what Drs. Campbell, Esselstyn, Ornish, Nathan Pritikin, and others recommend.)

1. Starch based

2. Add vegetables and fruits.

3. No animal products. (meat, fish, dairy, eggs, etc.)

4. NO ADDED OILS such as olive oil, etc. (If these are included, it's not WFPB.)

None of those recommending the way of eating likes to talk about macros, but they all mention it's about 80% carbs, 8% fat and 12% protein. 

It's the only way of eating that has been scientifically proven to arrest and reverse heart disease. Seems like a pretty good reason to eat this way to me. It also results in spontaneous remission of about 20% of cancer cases (for many types of cancer), or slowing the doubling rate in about 60% of the cases, so the cancer doesn't become a problem during a person's life.

[SantiR]

Hello guys! I love this topic. Even more now as my brother just came from overseas with his wife (they are both vegan and my brother's a chef). Vegan food is awesome, creative, and delicious by the way. You can do a lot of different recipes if you get the right ingredients. 

So, I was talking to my brother's wife a couple of days ago about veganism and how cool it was. Then I asked her, her point of view about bee honey. She told me she wouldn't eat honey as the process on getting it is stressful for bees. Interesting point, huh?

I want you guys to tell me what do you think about honey. What's your vegan point of view about honey. Do all vegans avoid honey or there are just a few that wouldn't eat it? I mean, you are not killing the bees or anything like that, but do you think they really get stressed by this? 

I'm very interested to know your points of view! 

[bcloyd2]

@SantiR it's helpful to look at honey-making from a different perspective. It isn't just a byproduct of their existence. It is something that they, as a species, work hard to farm for their own benefit. Because that's what honey is - food for bees. To make honey, commercial beekeepers isolate bees, substitute many of their nutrients for sugar water to keep them "fed" and steal their honey for resale. Honey is a hot topic of sorts among vegans because many have the same argument - that it isn't a PART of the bee - but many look at it the same as milk. We are taking a product of the bee for our own benefit. Also, many commercial beekepers do not take good care of their bees, use improper hive and comb storage, and kill bees in the process. Of course, local/ethical smaller beekeepers may be a much more valid and ethical option, but technically goes against the principles of ethical veganism. In fact, I don't see it as any different than eating locally/ethically sourced beef. A true vegan diet excludes all byproducts of animals, and I think when clearly defined, honey is such. Not to be confused with a whole foods plant based diet, which does include honey.

[SantiR]

Thanks for the light @bcloyd2! Very interesting. I didn't know that the honey industry could be that mean. I think that the only beekeepers that really take good care of their bees are the local small ones. When something gets commercialized, it looses its "nature" so animals/bees suffer this demand. 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me and the Community, it is much appreciated! 

Keen to hear what others think about this? 

[DanielleinDC]

I don't eat honey (or use any bee products) because again, it's made by the bees for the bees. It's not vegan. (When I was on vacation last month, we went to a restaurant that tried to serve me a dessert made with honey. I had to politely inform them that honey isn't vegan, and the server was a bit surprised. But they were able to replace it. And our meal was otherwise utterly spectacular.)

I mean, milk technically doesn't kill the cow, and eggs don't technically kill the hens, but vegans avoid them because of the abuse the animals suffer. (Not to mention they are killed when their production declines.) And bees are apparently harmed during the collection process.

Agave nectar is a good substitute, and there's this stuff called Bee-Free Honee that's made with apples that's pretty good. I live agave nectar in my tea when I have a cough or sore throat.

I've also read that a lot of so-called honey in the stores is so diluted and adulterated, it's not really honey.

[Esya]

I do still use a bit of honey at times, but hardly anymore. Not so much because of the way it is collected (I had a pot from a local guy who kept his own bees). If you do want to use honey however, I advice to read up on it. A lot of honey sold in the supermarket is basically just sugar without the benefits of raw honey. Honey should not be heated as it kills the enzyms in it (that is in the the bee spit) that makes it anti-bacterial. Look for raw honey and you should not heat it yourself if you are after the benefits and not only want to use it as sugar.

[bcloyd2]

100% pure maple syrup is also a great substitute! It's delicious.

[halfpint90]

My account had to be deleted per the folks at Fitbit support because I bought a used tracker and it was somehow saving old info from the previous owner - I started with my Blaze Friday and already had 90,000 steps. 😉 So, I'm previously bcloyd2 and I wanted to copy and paste my answers before they disappear from the forum. I hope they will be of use to someone else that comes along later.

Re: original post.

First of all, kudos on your decision to look into vegan. There is definitely a lot of misinformation out there. There's also not one "diet" that suits all. However, true veganism isn't a diet but a lifestyle change. Vegan is primarily an ethical term - the avoidance of animal products in food and all items used in one's life. There are terms like "dietary vegan" which are meant to distinguish those who may not stop wearing leather or fur, etc., but I think those collude the term itself.

A plant-based diet, as it appears many previous comments are, is your best solution for health. I've never heard of a plant-based diet including meat or dairy, as some mention, but I suppose people utilize the term as they see fit. The difference between vegan and plant-based is that vegans merely avoid the use of animal products, with no restrictions on nutrition, whole plant-based people eat only things that come from plants. A vegan could technically eat potato chips and Oreos everyday and be vegan, but not healthy. One can also be both - a plant-based vegan - where they have the ethical standpoint for the animals but they also choose whole, plant-based foods.

There are tons of great books and also some good movies. Forks Over Knives is what jumpstarted my research into a vegan lifestyle. There are other movies that come highly recommended in the vegan community like Earthlings and Cowspiracy, but I've not seen them to recommend. What the Health also has a lot of good information but it is pretty biased and scare-tacticy, which turned me off of it a bit. Go into them with an open mind.

The easiest way to stay vegan is to commit to your ethical principles. Once your brain actually makes the connection of where your food comes from and the steps it takes to get there, you will find it much easier to "quit" meat and dairy. I'm not saying vegan is easy - it's not at all. But, if you choose natural ingredients, whole foods, and you eat a variety of colors on your plate each day, you will get all of your nutrients (except B12 - that's the one vitamin vegans need to supplement) and you will feel better.

Since going vegan, I sleep better, I've had more energy throughout the day, and it's much easier to get out of bed in the mornings. It can be expensive unless you buy in season fruits and veggies only, and you definitely do need to diversify your eating habits to get a good range of nutrients, but I think it's totally worth it.

Re: honey inquiry.

It's helpful to look at honey-making from a different perspective. It isn't just a byproduct of their existence. It is something that they, as a species, work hard to farm for their own benefit. Because that's what honey is - food for bees. To make honey, commercial beekeepers isolate bees, substitute many of their nutrients for sugar water to keep them "fed" and steal their honey for resale. Honey is a hot topic of sorts among vegans because many have the same argument - that it isn't a PART of the bee - but many look at it the same as milk. We are taking a product of the bee for our own benefit. Also, many commercial beekepers do not take good care of their bees, use improper hive and comb storage, and kill bees in the process. Of course, local/ethical smaller beekeepers may be a much more valid and ethical option, but technically goes against the principles of ethical veganism. In fact, I don't see it as any different than eating locally/ethically sourced beef. A true vegan diet excludes all byproducts of animals, and I think when clearly defined, honey is such. Not to be confused with a whole foods plant based diet, which does include honey.

Namaste!

[tiffanyjane]

Veganism isn't a fad, that's a misunderstanding of the core of the movement.

Maybe some people have that impression as they are seeing younger folk going vegan sometimes to emulate their celeb idol who is vegan. However the actual movement is about reducing animal suffering, gaining better health and doing less damage to the planet.

I've been vegan for 2 years, my main original motivation was animal welfare.

It takes a little effort to begin with swapping all your products over (food, household cleaners, cosmetics, clothes) but once you have done that the only thing harder than not being vegan is eating out. You have to check ahead for options etc.

I'd never consider going back to eating animals. I will however consider returning to eating just fish when the bioidentical/cultured lab grown fish is available (assuming the full process is vegan).

“There are two kinds of cardiologists: vegans and those who haven’t read the data.”

DR. KIM WILLIAMS (president of the American College of Cardiology 2016)

[DanielleinDC]

Even if lab-grown meat becomes affordable, it wouldn't be entirely cruelty free. It probably would cause some harm to the animal to harvest the cells to use for the "sheets" of meat. So eating it would not be in line with vegan principles. That said, if lab-grown meat means only 1,000 animals suffer rather than the 10 billion-plus in the U.S. alone, I'd consider that a vast improvement (if not ideal). I wouldn't eat it, though; one of the reasons I stopped eating meat is my body stopped being able to handle meat after I turned 30.

[SantiR]

Thanks to all who replied to the honey inquiry! Now I know what is going on and the vegan point of view. Super cool, thanks a lot! 

I will definitely try some substitutes like maple syrup (which I already tried when I was a little kid) and agave nectar as well. 

I have a friend who is a local small beekeeper and produces honey for the local community. He and his wife invited me to check out the bees at their farm. Will definitely go as I think that experience could be interesting, but at the same time I will check how they are treating the bees, will try to take a closer look at the process of getting the honey and will check if it is properly handled without harming the little bees. 

Will let you know my findings! Thanks again for all the information! 

[tiffanyjane]

Some of the cultured/lab grown meat companies are actually trying to make the process not use animals at all - other than a single biopsy/sample taken from a single original animal (who then will carry on living after).

They are developing methods for those original cells to renew basically endlessly so there would be no need to return to a second animal for another sample/biopsy.