How do people average 50000 steps per day?

[Emmeli]

Who has the time to average 50,000 steps a day!? How can this be possible?

Moderator edit: updated subject for clarity

[shipo]

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@GershonSurge wrote:

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@USAF-Larry wrote:

This type of thing is the exception, not the rule, @GershonSurge. And, was it worth it?  From the article:

"Kostelnick’s day off came on his seventh day out of San Francisco.

After churning out 450 miles—an average of 75 miles a day—he was in bad shape. He had tendinitis in an ankle and shin after the climb over the Sierra. He was also sunburned and feverish.

On Day 7, out in the boondocks between Tonopah and Ely, Nev., Kostelnick and his crew decided to take a rest day, something he never planned. He hunkered down in his RV."

Nope, it wouldn't be worth it to me. So, he'll get his name in the record books, and he'll get lots of medical attention later to correct the damage he did to his body....

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People don't mind risking worse damage by eating a poor diet. It seems to be worth it to them.

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Really?  Are you going to harp in the diet thing again?

[GershonSurge]

@shipo

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Really?  Are you going to harp in the diet thing again?

If you have a problem with that, block me. I'm not going to be silenced by people who don't do basic research. 

[BruceBu]

@shipo said "Sorry, but this is not beyond my understanding, I also have a marathon and a number of Ultra events under my belt so I know very well what I'm talking about.  The link provided above shows the individual with 1,500 miles of running logged through 20-Oct; that works out to an average of 75 miles per day, and to that claim I call B.S."

Really?  Are you going to harp on that 'I know very well  what I am are talking about' thing again? If you actually have a number of ultra events under your belt, it amazes me that it did not give you the curiosity to find out what top level competitors in the fleld are capable of doing. I'll give you another example since you don't seem to be able to do your own investigative work, even when given links (yes the link to Peter's race results had already been posted and discussed when you said the above): The record for the Trancendancy-3100 is, I believe, 41 days, 8 hours and some minutes - that works out to averaging almost exactly 75 miles a day for 41+ days. I know, out of your realm of experience or investigation, so it must be B.S. It is quite obvious that, in fact, you really don't know what you are talking about and are not really interested in learning.

@USAF-Larry NIce pivot: to paraphrase " Well OK, maybe it is real, but I sure wouldn't do it." I wouldn't do it either, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China or with whether something is possible or not?

Sorry, I thought I had said all I wanted, but couldn't let these go. Hopefully done & gone now.

[shipo]

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@GershonSurge wrote:

@shipo

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Really?  Are you going to harp in the diet thing again?

If you have a problem with that, block me. I'm not going to be silenced by people who don't do basic research. 

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The issue here is respect, we've respected your wish to be vegetarian and have not pushed our agenda on you; please have the class to respect our choice to be omnivores.  If you cannot then this may well become as full blown pissing contest which I'm sure the moderators will not appreciate.

[brunoray]

No, this post will NEVER go away; it's been on here for weeks.... why?



Speedy

[BruceBu]

Brunoray: Some of us are interested in the subject and the places it has evolved (limits of human performance). If you don't like it, you don't have to read. Please don't try to abridge our 1st amendment rights.

BTW: the whole thing is called a 'thread', not a 'post'. A post would be a single element within the thread. 

[GershonSurge]

@BruceBu,

You mentioned people not being able to believe things that are outside their experience level. I think that is true for most of us. The average step count for people on Fitbit is about 7,000 steps a day. I used to have a hard time believing people could average less than this until I got lazy for a month. 

People in their 60's recall the many injuries that runners used to have due to overtraining and many think that happens to everyone. The thing is, many of those people ran too fast, not to far. 

I can see how a physical therapist would think running causes joint degeneration as that's the type of person they treat. People without joint degeneration don't go to physical therapists. Far more joint degeneration is caused by inactivity than is caused by excessive activity done incorrectly.

Although averaging more than 27,000 steps a day tends to stimulate minor overuse injuries for me, I realize there are people who can do much more. 

The limiting factor is the belief that cartilidge doesn't regenerate, and this is true for those who have poor blood circulation to their cartilidge. They also believe bones can wear out. That is not the case. Bones repair themselves when subjected to stress, and they are the only thing in the body that can regenerate to the same strength as in our youth. 

I'd write more, but it's time to go for a run.

[jen2150]

I have done 50k 38 times in the last year. 50k is possible. You never stop moving. I use a schedule. 3300 steps an hour for 15 hours. I walk in place whenever standing and sometimes I jog. I do leg lifts when sitting. Left lifts are harder than walking and have made leg muscles very toned. I use a rebounder while watching TV and also while reading. It takes all day focus so I don't do it everyday. My average is closer to 25k. I also have done 100k 5 times and will be doing it again this week.

[brunoray]

ok


Speedy

[GershonSurge]

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@shipo wrote:

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@GershonSurge wrote:

@shipo

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Really?  Are you going to harp in the diet thing again?

If you have a problem with that, block me. I'm not going to be silenced by people who don't do basic research. 

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The issue here is respect, we've respected your wish to be vegetarian and have not pushed our agenda on you; please have the class to respect our choice to be omnivores.  If you cannot then this may well become as full blown pissing contest which I'm sure the moderators will not appreciate.

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@shipo,

All I said is there are people who knowingly hurt themselves with a bad diet. In the context, it was appropriate as everyone knows many people eat a poor diet by anyone's standards. I made no mention of the way I eat.

Let's look at your record of respect. You have jumped in on threads I've started which clearly had a vegan way of eating. It's fine to disagree with something, but it's not OK to disagree without presenting research. In almost every case when I jumped in on someone else's thread, I gave a link to the research.

You and another person interjected posts in the Pritikin thread and neither one of you was at all interested in the material. Your objective seemed to be discredit the information for the purpose of some "pissing contest,"  Yes, I have jumped into threads where I probably wasn't wanted. I  considerably scaled that back. 

You say I don't respect your decision to be omnivores, yet I've repeatedly stated small amounts of animal products are ok. I do object to variations of the Atkins diet, but I've learned not to say anything to those people whose minds are made up.

If you are looking for a pissing contest, I suggest you start another thread and face into the wind. I'm not going to get involved.

[Corney]

UASF-Larry  You are so right, The Human body can handle just so much stress before it breaks down, I hope the damage is not permanent.

[jen2150]

You can have a 50k average and still have rest. There are also many ways to have a low impact workout. Eventually your body gets stronger and what hurts your feet won't later. 50k used to hurt my feet but eventually I became used to it.

[Corney]

BruceBu,  Bruce is correct bone due repair themselves, Hyaline cartilage does not, my 38 years of experience working with total joint replacement clients is all the research I need.  I ran for over 20 years 6-7 miles a year, speed has nothing to do with joint damage. it's milage and the bio-mechanics of running, hyper-pronators cause the Tibia to internally rotate in relation to the Femur, malalignment of the patella to the Femoral condyles, rapid degeneration of the medial hylaine cartilage leading to abnormal degeneration of the medial Femoral Condyle and abnormal degeneration of the medial tibial Plateau, causing the typical bow legged posture of individuals who eventually need Total Knee replacements.  That's my real life research.  I quit running at the first signs of trouble, plantar fasciitis and Patellar femoral syndrome ( runners knee).  I'm 70 years old still exercise 5 days per week and have no foot, knee or hip problems, because I listened to my body.  There maybe a few exceptional individuals out there that can log 50K-110K steps a day but they are the exception, people who try to floow their example will suffer the consquences.

[Corney]

BruceBu  I challenge you to show me research that show Hyaline cartilage regenerates itself.

[GershonSurge]

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@Corney wrote:

BruceBu  I challenge you to show me research that show Hyaline cartilage regenerates itself.

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@Corney,

I think you were replying to me, and not Bruce. 

First, let me say I agree with virtually everything you say as it applies to the average person. My sister is a retired patholigist with a lifelong interest in diet and exercise. She is 68 years old and quite active. I run everything I learn past her for confirmation.

Like you, I thought cartilage doesn't regenerate until a couple days ago when I read this on page 7 of a privately published document by Nathan Pritikin:

Neither physical nor mental impairment is inevitable with aging. True aging need only bring a gentle loss of function over the life-span of the individual. The length of this span is unknown, but studies of certain population groups cited in these chapters point to an active life of at least a century as ordinary. The evidence indicates that decreased mental and physical agility--thought to be part of the aging process--in reality are merely functional losses produced by the degenerative diseases. Because of the crippling degenerative diseases-- arthritis, gout, etc.--aging has been associated with lameness, stiffness of joints, and forced inactivity. With freedom from disease, activity is not limited to the young. Seventy-five year olds are running marathon races--26 miles of continuous running. Even 90-year olds run as a routine; the sports publications regularly list 80-90 year olds in running contests. Osteoporosis, the "porous bones" of the aged, is a result of the forced inactivity of older peqple brought on by degenerative diseases. W,ith activ.i ty, bones strengthen and become dense. Due to the destructive effect of arthritis on the sliding surfaces of the joints, knees, hips, etc., it was thought that cartilage is subject to "wear and tear", and once it wears out, function ends. It is now known(2) that this is not true. Cartilage maintains .its elasticity indefinitely, and lasts as long as there is circulation to support its needs. Elderly people, if freed from the forc.ed inactivity brought about by degenerative diseases, could achieve an activity level greater than that of many y.oungsters"

Sokoloff, L. Elasticity of Aging Cartilage. Fed. Proc. 25: 1089-95, 1966. ( I haven't been able to find this online.)

In context, there are preconditions to make this happen as these blood vessels are tiny. Fat as a percentage of calories needs to be about 7%. The reason for this is with a higher fat intake, the red blood cells tend to stack like coins and can't fit through the tiny blood vessels.

The total chloresterol level needs to be under 140. A higher level is indicative of the early stages of cardiovascular disease. 

Hope this helps.

[BruceBu]

@Corney, I expect you dirrected your challenge to Gershon, not me, but I'll answer anyway.

From National Institute of Health:

https://www.nibib.nih.gov/news-events/newsroom/new-cartilage-grows-helps-repair-damaged-joints-thank...

quotes from within

"Unfortunately, damage to cartilage is not readily repaired by the body. That’s because cartilage unlike most tissues in the body doesn’t have its own blood supply to bathe damaged tissue and provide factors promoting regeneration."

"Though cartilage does a poor job of regenerating inside the body, researchers have been successfully building human cartilage outside of the body for decades."

Point is, hyaline cartilage *does* regenerate itself, albeit it "poorly". Nowhere do they say that it does not regenerate. So, since if it regenerates at all, there will be some distribution of how well it regenerates among a population of people - probably related to variations in local blood flow. I must be one of the lucky ones because I've done a fair amount of walking (and running) over the last 50 years (I'm 66 now and started backcountry trekking before I was out of high school) - I have experienced no discerable joint damage.  

[BruceBu]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3150191/

Funny (in section 2), they indicate overweight and obesity, genetics, joint misalignment, lack of muscle tone/support, and injuries as risk factors, but never mention overuse (as in too much walking and running) as a risk factor for cartilage damage and loss leading to OA. I don't doubt that overuse would exacerbate the listed risk factors, but overuse is apparently not considered to be causative in of itself.

The first 3 sections give a fairly up to date & detailed review of the subject (with plenty of additional references), section 3 is titled

3. Regeneration of the Cartilage Structure

3.1. Basic Structure and Turnover of Normal Joint Cartilage

(Pretty strange title if it doesn't regenerate) Beyond this are sections on how specifc nutrients (Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Omega-3s, etc.) aid in the (haha nonexistant) regeneration. The prior news release I posted talks about how major regeneration can be accomplished with micro-surgical procedures aided by stem cell and gene therapies.

[GershonSurge]

This is one of many references in the book "Running until you are 100" by Jeff Galloway. These studies did not include ultra-marathoners.  As I read more closely, I found the studies did include marathoners.

No increase in degenerative joint disease in runners. “Competitive sports increase joint risk—but running risk is low”. Lane, et al, “Risk of Osteoarthritis (OA) With Running and Aging: Five Year Longitudinal Study”. Studied runners 50-72 years old. Findings were similar to the conclusions of a study in 1989.

Galloway, Jeff. Running Until You're 100 3rd Ed (p. 18). Cardinal Publishers Group. Kindle Edition.

[Rando1ph]

Stop it. Get some help.

[Corney]

BruceBu  I guess if a person was not over weight, had perfect genetics, excellent muscle tone, good support from joint ligaments, and if they ran,walked with proper bio-mechaniccs, that is they don't hyper-pronate or hyper-supinate, then they could run untill they were100.  Good luck finding that person.  Show me an article from a respected medical journal where they state Hyaline cartilage regenerates, if this were possible there wouldn't be so many total knee, hips and shoulders.  There is no medical proof that Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Omega 3 aids in the regeneration process.  Major regeneration may be accomplished witth surgery aided by stem cell aand gene therapies, I stress MAY BE.  I just happen to have a bottle of Glucosamine and Chondroitin, it clearly states " These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA.  This product is not intended to diagnose, treat cure or prevent any disease."  It says Glucosamine assists in the formation of tendons, ligaments, skin, bones, nails and muscles. Chondroitin is a building block of cartilage and helps lubricate joints.  No where does it state it aids in the regeneration of Hyaline cartilage.  All of the above mentioned risk factors must be taken into account when logging 50K-100K steps everyday.