Is the battery replaceable?

[VF31AE3]

Is the Ionic's battery replaceable or is the $300.00 Smartwatch disposable?

Moderator edit: edited title for clarity

[VF31AE3]

@PureEvil. Well put. A second thumbs up!. Having a problem though relating data storage formats vs replaceable power supply. One changes how data is stored. The other extends the life of a device.

Ultimate battery life (in a perfect world) goes by recharge cycles. Heat (surrounding air and internal discharge rate) shortens the number of cycles. Charging habits affect battery life as well.

The Ionic has a 4 day life (max) without using GPS. GPS shortens the life to 10 hours (max) so the 90 cycle per year isn't really realistic.

IPhone 7 users may not have been "screaming about" non-replaceable batteries, Surge users were. Where as FitBit doesn't make iPhones they do make Surges and Ionics. Maybe enough people didn't

speak up. Maybe FitBit didn't care. I don't know. I don't think there is any way to know.

"Does the lack of a replaceable battery make it disposable?" By definition. Yes. The battery is dead. Even if the rest of the watch functions perfectly, there is no power to operate it. It won't work. Throw it away (as you would an empty butane lighter that can't be refilled) unless you want a memento.

I do "talk with my wallet." I still have my flip phone because it still works flawlessly and does what I need it to do. Majority decides what is to be. You can't buy what isn't available. FitBit made the Ionic throw-away. If no one (figurative) buys it because of the non replaceable battery I suspect they would redesign it. If enough people buy it. Throw it away and buy another they won't. I get it. I was just pointing out they could have made it replaceable and longer lasting. Maybe then people might have bought more of them. Again. There's no way of knowing.

I'm done. As far as I'm concerned it's all good. It's just my point of view.

Peace

AJC

[PureEvil]

@VF31AE3,

First allow me to say that I agree with you in one way, I do think that having the battery replaceable, would be a better design.

The point I was making with the references to the file formats is that, for better or worse, there are compromises to technology.  I am not a Fitbit engineer and I don't know what the compromises were in order to put together a device like the Ionic.

I will tell you that while I prefer to have a removable, replaceable battery on my phone, many folks are willing to deal with the likes of 'disposable' (by your characterization) iPhones.  Unfortunately, I believe that there are not enough people who are willing to boycott these companies that will persuade them to change their design.

That said, if there are problems with a certain model in a product line (you mentioned the Surge), it's not necessarily fair to anticipate this problem going forward with different models.  Some folks mentioned problems with the band on their trackers, and Fitbit changed their design to use replaceable, removable bands.  As I mentioned above, my One lasted for four years before I decided to replace it.

Are you expecting every Ford vehicle to burst into flames due to their history with the Pinto?

Are you expecting every iPhone to drop calls due to their history with the iPhone 4?

Are you expecting every Toyota to have accelerate uncontrollably due to their history with the Prius?

...but Fitbit does not deserve the same courtesy?

[VF31AE3]

@PureEvil I guess it's all a matter of perception. I can see the data format as a compromise. The data is being changed. Imperceptibly. But none the less. The battery thing is a choice. Not a compromise unless the non-replaceable battery enabled more desirable characteristics that FitBit was looking for. You compromise replace-ability for those characteristics. I don't think FitBit will give us their reasoning. And they don't have to. If that makes it a deal breaker then it stays on the shelf. 

It was never my intention in mentioning the Surges battery issue as an implication that FitBit doesn't deserve the "benefit of the doubt." It was merely in response to your mentioning the "lack of complaining" on the part of iPhone 7 users about the non-replaceable battery. Surge users did complain (and as I said. Maybe not enough) and still the Ionic is disposable. Disappointing.

But I am really curious. You say "disposable (by your characterization)." It's not my characterization. The definition of disposable is: "Designed to be thrown away after use."  When the battery is dead what else do you do with it? Just asking.

As a point of perspective. Your "One" lasted four years before you decided to replace it." That suggests that it is still operational. My first Surge lasted two weeks before it stopped working and was replaced under warranty. Based on those two separate experiences we could have two very (justifiable) differing opinions.

My whole point in posting the question was just to find out if the battery was replaceable or not. It is not. The $300.00 Ionic is disposable (for better or worse). It is what it is.

Peace

AJC

[PureEvil]

@VF31AE3,

Like I said before, I'm not a Fitbit engineer nor do I know the details of the design of the Ionic.  That said, I'd find it very difficult to believe that making this option available wouldn't compromise either the water resistance rating, the physical size, or both.

Many folks have been asking for a more full featured tracker with which they may swim.  Still others believe that, even before seeing one in person, the Ionic is too 'manly' due to its size.  For whatever it's worth, both of the above groups outnumber the folks who want a replaceable battery.  I'm with you, where I believe that the replaceable battery would be a really nice feature, but unlike you, I believe that Fitbit likely had a pretty good reason to design it the way that they did.

You'd call any electronic device without a removable battery 'disposable'?  Well, I certainly don't think iPad users think their device is disposable.

So let's talk about that word, 'disposable'.  We can agree on looking this up on the dictionary, right?

Disposable:

designed to be used once or only a limited number of times and then thrown away

* disposable diapers * Replace the disposable razor when the blade becomes dull.

Emphasis mine.  So, if again, by your standard (I'll refrain from using definition), a rechargeable razor like a Norelco is to be disposed when it no longer takes a charge... is a disposable razor.  Do you think most people think of this type of razor when they hear disposable razor.  Do you think that if I were to do an image search for disposable razor, I'd find a rechargeable one?  I didn't.

While I'll concede that by some definition of 'disposable', you can certainly legitimately claim that such a device is disposable.  However, part of the function of language is to convey an idea, and for better or worse, most people will hear 'disposable' and think 'use once and discard'.

You may also accurately describe a couple having a meal at a restaurant and conversing as 'engaging in intercourse' (exchange especially of thoughts or feelings), and you'll be completely correct, but that's not likely what people will think.

Using the word disposable this way, while not necessarily incorrect, is (IMHO) misleading.

Just my 2¢.

[BryBub]

Wonder if that would include free loss of waterproofing? hahaha 

[VF31AE3]

@PureEvil OK. I'm in. I never came here to dis FitBit. I just asked a (passive aggressive, my bad) question. Here we are.

"Like I said before, I'm not a Fitbit engineer nor do I know the details of the design of the Ionic.  That said, I'd find it very difficult to believe that making this option available wouldn't compromise either the water resistance rating, the physical size, or both." 

The Surge is fully sealed and labeled water resistant. There are people in the Surge forum who would disagree with that.

"Disposable:

designed to be used once or only a limited number of times and then thrown away

* disposable diapers * Replace the disposable razor when the blade becomes dull."

You can Bold type what you like. "Limited number of times and then thrown away" is still in the definition. It doesn't just go away because you don't think about it, agree with it or it doesn't support your point of view. They can hold onto their iPad after the battery dies and not "think of it as disposable." It still won't work. I totally agree. It is a "disposable society." They win.

"So, if again, by your standard (I'll refrain from using definition), a rechargeable razor like a Norelco is to be disposed when it no longer takes a charge... is a disposable razor.  Do you think most people think of this type of razor when they hear disposable razor.  Do you think that if I were to do an image search for disposable razor, I'd find a rechargeable one?  I didn't. "

It's not my standard. It's the definition. The Norelco regardless of what anyone "thinks" is disposable. Just like the iPad. Reality doesn't care or become what anyone thinks. It is what it is regardless. Logically however since the image search for disposable razor did not show a rechargeable razor it should still work when the battery dies. Yet it won't.  

"While I'll concede that by some definition of 'disposable', you can certainly legitimately claim that such a device is disposable.  However, part of the function of language is to convey an idea, and for better or worse, most people will hear 'disposable' and think 'use once and discard'.  

I have to know so please indulge me. Is the Norelco disposable? Not by "some definition" or what it may be thought of. Is it by the definition. Disposable? If not then what is it?

Part of advertising is to imply through omission (among other things). This allows the person not to think of it as disposable but think rechargeable, reusable. It's not thought of as "disposable" because of its complexity. It doesn't make sense to throw it away. So you don't think about it. Until it no longer works.

"You may also accurately describe a couple having a meal at a restaurant and conversing as 'engaging in intercourse' (exchange especially of thoughts or feelings), and you'll be completely correct, but that's not likely what people will think."

You are right. people will "think" sexual. But to use "engaging in intercourse" as a means to describe a couple having a meal at a restaurant and conversing . Is (IMHO) misleading.

That my 2 cents as well. It's still all good PureEvil. (I like the way that sounds) Have a good one.

Peace

AJC

[VF31AE3]

@PureEvil OK. I'm In. First. I never intended to Dis FitBit ( if I have). I only asked a (Passive aggressive, my bad) question about the battery.

Here we are.

"Like I said before, I'm not a Fitbit engineer nor do I know the details of the design of the Ionic.  That said, I'd find it very difficult to believe that making this option available wouldn't compromise either the water resistance rating, the physical size, or both."

The Surge is sealed and labeled "water resistant." Many people on the surge forum would disagree with that.

"You'd call any electronic device without a removable battery 'disposable'?  Well, I certainly don't think iPad users think their device is disposable."

It doesn't matter what people "think." They can hold onto the iPad after the battery dies. It still won't work.

"

Disposable:

designed to be used once or only a limited number of times and then thrown away

* disposable diapers * Replace the disposable razor when the blade becomes dull."

You can Bold face what ever you like. The rest of the definition doesn't just disappear because you don't consider it valid, don't know it exists or it doesn't support your point of view.

"So, if again, by your standard (I'll refrain from using definition), a rechargeable razor like a Norelco is to be disposed when it no longer takes a charge... is a disposable razor.  Do you think most people think of this type of razor when they hear disposable razor.  Do you think that if I were to do an image search for disposable razor, I'd find a rechargeable one?  I didn't."

Reality doesn't care what people "think." The razor is disposable. When the battery dies it is of no use. Logically, however. Since the image search yielded no electric razors they will continue to function when the battery dies? No. Advertising tells us it's rechargeable. Reuseable. We don't think about it until the battery dies. Then it's. OH. Now what do I do?

"While I'll concede that by some definition of 'disposable', you can certainly legitimately claim that such a device is disposable.  However, part of the function of language is to convey an idea, and for better or worse, most people will hear 'disposable' and think 'use once and discard'."

I have to know so please indulge me. What is the Norelco razor? Don't be selective. Use the entire definition. If its not disposable. What is it?

"You may also accurately describe a couple having a meal at a restaurant and conversing as 'engaging inintercourse' (exchange especially of thoughts or feelings), and you'll be completely correct, but that's not likely what people will think."

You are correct in what people would think. But to use the word "intercourse" to accurately describe a couple having a meal at a restaurant and conversing." while not necessarily incorrect, is (IMHO) misleading.

Just my 2 cents as well. It's all good PureEvil (I like the way that sounds).

Peace

AJC

[PureEvil]

@VF31AE3,

First, the Surge also didn't have replaceable bands.  And there have been five successors (Blaze, Alta, Alta HR, Flex 2, and Charge 2) that have it.  To make the implication that Fitbit does not improve on their design on the subsequent models is not necessarily fair.

Second, you can shoehorn that label into anything.  Generically, anything you buy, you will eventually throw away.  If you buy kitchen towels and use them for 15 years to the point where they're too thin and throw them out, by this broad of a definition, they're disposable.  How do you distinguish them from paper towels?

I suppose you could sell something (and not throw it away) and then it doesn't become disposable, but you can buy non-functioning Fitbits for parts on ebay, so are they no longer disposable?

Again, the function of language is to convey an idea.  It sounds to me like the idea that you were hinting at is that these trackers are junk (what one does with garbage is to dispose it).  Humor me and ask your friends (folks you trust) that don't have a context of this thread (without giving them hints) to describe either a 'disposable razor' or a 'disposable diaper'.  If more than 50% of them describe either a rechargeable razor or reusable laundered diaper, then I'll concede.  I suspect that they won't.

[VF31AE3]

@PureEvil What's up PureEvil?

"Humor me and ask your friends (folks you trust) that don't have a context of this thread (without giving them hints) to describe either a 'disposable razor' or a 'disposable diaper'.  If more than 50% of them describe either a rechargeable razor or reusable laundered diaper, then I'll concede.  I suspect that they won't."

I asked 8 people where I work. 2 I work with. 6 work in "the office." Funny how no one thought of a rechargeable razor or cloth diaper. Not one. That's a lie. I didn't ask any one. Again. Because people don't "think" something is disposable doesn't mean it isn't. How ever. I did ask the Chief Electrical Engineer of the company he and I work for a question.  There are two flashlights. One has replaceable batteries the other is a sealed flashlight with non-replaceable but a rechargeable battery. Are any of them considered disposable? The rechargeable is disposable. Why? It has no serviceable parts to extend it's life.

Peace

AJC

[PureEvil]

Right, like I said twice before.  While you can look at the definition all you want, the very function of language is to convey an idea.

I will happily concede that your use of the word 'disposable' in this way is within the definition of the word.

You are right.  In the strictest definition of the word, it abides by that definition.  No debate.

Though by that broad of a definition all of the following are used a 'limited number of times' and will also be disposable:

• Cloth kitchen towels.
• Cars.  I remember reading a story where a Saab was driven a million miles before it was retired, but even that is a 'limited number of times'.
• Appliances.

Practically everything has a MTTF; that's why the term exists.  Thus everything is (eventually) disposable.

That said, like I mentioned before, the function of language is to convey an idea.  You agree that the use of the word 'intercourse' to describe conversation while completely accurate and correct is misleading because that's not what people will think (they'll think 'sexual intercourse').

Similarly, your use of the word 'disposable' in this way, while completely accurate and correct, is also misleading.  Feel free to use the label 'disposable razor' (without the long winded explanation) with a rechargeable one.  And you'll be completely in the right and not only possibly, but likely confuse people who hear it.

Can you at least agree to that?

Like I said, the function of language is to convey an idea (and why else would you be posting on a forum?) and this fails.

What I suspect is that you want this feature (replaceable battery) and what to characterize Fitbit products with the feel of cheap, plastic flatware and give it the label 'disposable', which is (I agree) completely accurate by the strictest form of the definition (but so are cars, cloth towels, etc.), though misleading to practically everyone who hears it (which I understand, you don't care about misleading people, as long as you're in the right in using that characterization).

[VF31AE3]

"Though by that broad of a definition all of the following are used a 'limited number of times' and will also be disposable:

• Cloth kitchen towels.
• Cars.  I remember reading a story where a Saab was driven a million miles before it was retired, but even that is a 'limited number of times'.
• Appliances."

It seems you missed the Engineers clarification in the flashlight analogy. "It has no serviceable parts to extend it's life." Do cars have serviceable parts to extend their life? Do appliances? The cloth kitchen towels are a sole part intended to be be reused (where the paper towels are not). They wear out and must be replaced. "In the strictest definition of the word" they are disposable.. Cars. No. Appliances. No.

"Feel free to use the label 'disposable razor' (without the long winded explanation) with a rechargeable one."

Does it have serviceable parts to extend it's life? No. Will it confuse people? With out a doubt.

"You agree that the use of the word 'intercourse' to describe conversation while completely accurate and correct is misleading because that's not what people will think (they'll think 'sexual intercourse')."

100% agree.

"Like I said, the function of language is to convey an idea (and why else would you be posting on a forum?) and this fails."

How so? How does it fail?

Whether or not I "want this feature (replaceable battery)" is irrelevant. I started this Thread with the Question. "Is the Ionics battery replaceable or is the $300.00 Smartwatch disposable?" Is the question passive / aggressive? yes. Was it called for? The fist part yes. The second part no. Was it out of line and or rude? Yes. Was it answered? No.

The answer was " There is no need to replace the battery on Ionic as it comes with a rechargeable lithium-polymer battery."

What does that mean? "The function of language is to convey an idea." What was the answer trying to say?

Does it mean the rechargeable battery will last forever? Does it mean you have a choice to replace or not? Or ( "The function of language is to convey an idea.") does it skirt the question by not saying yes it's replaceable or no it's not replaceable in an effort to imply something without actually saying it?

As I said 4 paragraphs up. The question was rude. It does not change the fact  if the battery is not replaceable the watch is disposable (unless according to a degree carrying Electrical Engineer it has serviceable parts that extend its life) regardless of what anyone "thinks, wants, or believes."

"What I suspect is that you want this feature (replaceable battery) and what to characterize Fitbit products with the feel of cheap, plastic flatware and give it the label 'disposable', which is (I agree) completely accurate by the strictest form of the definition (but so are cars, cloth towels, etc.), though misleading to practically everyone who hears it (which I understand, you don't care about misleading people, as long as you're in the right in using that characterization)."

That is your opinion as language is also subject to interpretation. Usually in a manner that satisfies the reader (in this case), or listener. But since you brought it up I will answer. My intent was to :

1) Find out if the battery was (is) replaceable.

2) If it was not. Would the answer be "no"? Funny how I didn't expect the question to be skirted (or am I wrong about that too?).

3) Be passive / aggressively obnoxious (my bad. I'm not perfect) and make obvious the watch is not cheap and is a throw-away (only if the battery was not replaceable). Yea. Outta line. Not my proudest moment. I wasn't raised to throw perfectly usable things away. I hate being forced to do things that make no sense to me. It's a waste.

4) Not associated with the first 3. In response to the last 20 words of you last paragraph. Since you have no idea who I am as a person. Your statement "you don't care about misleading people, as long as you're in the right in using that characterization)." Is your opinion of me. That's fine. You're entitled and I'm not offended. But maybe just maybe those 20 or 30 people I've helped deal with their Surge band problems might disagree. I'm sure you know. The band isn't replaceable. Right? Who "doesn't care about misleading people?" I guess "in the strictest definition of the word" I just don't think it's me. But then as long as I'm right. Right? Those who actually know me know I am honest to a fault. I own up to my mistakes. I am not a fan of deception when that deception takes advantage of others (read into that anything you like).

I've been pretty honest. How about you? You've been critical of my use of the word disposable. You've called it  "misleading." and you've never answered the question. In the loosest way you can imagine. How do you describe any device with a built in by design limited life span? Not something that wears out. Something that stops working because it was designed to. Can you answer that?

Enjoy the weekend. 

Peace.

AJC

[VF31AE3]

"Though by that broad of a definition all of the following are used a 'limited number of times' and will also be disposable:

• Cloth kitchen towels.
• Cars.  I remember reading a story where a Saab was driven a million miles before it was retired, but even that is a 'limited number of times'.
• Appliances."

It seems you missed the Engineers clarification in the flashlight analogy. "It has no serviceable parts to extend it's life." Do cars have serviceable parts to extend their life? Do appliances? The cloth kitchen towels are a sole part intended to be be reused (where the paper towels are not). They wear out and must be replaced. "In the strictest definition of the word" they are disposable.. Cars. No. Appliances. No.

"Feel free to use the label 'disposable razor' (without the long winded explanation) with a rechargeable one."

Does it have serviceable parts to extend it's life? No. Will it confuse people? With out a doubt.

"You agree that the use of the word 'intercourse' to describe conversation while completely accurate and correct is misleading because that's not what people will think (they'll think 'sexual intercourse')."

100% agree.

"Like I said, the function of language is to convey an idea (and why else would you be posting on a forum?) and this fails."

How so? How does it fail?

Whether or not I "want this feature (replaceable battery)" is irrelevant. I started this Thread with the Question. "Is the Ionics battery replaceable or is the $300.00 Smartwatch disposable?" Is the question passive / aggressive? yes. Was it called for? The fist part yes. The second part no. Was it out of line and or rude? Yes. Was it answered? No.

The answer was " There is no need to replace the battery on Ionic as it comes with a rechargeable lithium-polymer battery."

What does that mean? "The function of language is to convey an idea." What was the answer trying to say?

Does it mean the rechargeable battery will last forever? Does it mean you have a choice to replace or not? Or ( "The function of language is to convey an idea.") does it skirt the question by not saying yes it's replaceable or no it's not replaceable in an effort to imply something without actually saying it?

As I said 4 paragraphs up. The question was rude. It does not change the fact  if the battery is not replaceable the watch is disposable (unless according to a degree carrying Electrical Engineer it has serviceable parts that extend its life) regardless of what anyone "thinks, wants, or believes."

"What I suspect is that you want this feature (replaceable battery) and what to characterize Fitbit products with the feel of cheap, plastic flatware and give it the label 'disposable', which is (I agree) completely accurate by the strictest form of the definition (but so are cars, cloth towels, etc.), though misleading to practically everyone who hears it (which I understand, you don't care about misleading people, as long as you're in the right in using that characterization)."

That is your opinion as language is also subject to interpretation. Usually in a manner that satisfies the reader (in this case), or listener. But since you brought it up I will answer. My intent was to :

1) Find out if the battery was (is) replaceable.

2) If it was not. Would the answer be "no"? Funny how I didn't expect the question to be skirted (or am I wrong about that too?).

3) Be passive / aggressively obnoxious (my bad. I'm not perfect) and make obvious the watch is not cheap and is a throw-away (if it was not replaceable). Yea. Outta line. Not my proudest moment. I wasn't raised to throw perfectly usable things away. I hate being forced to do things that make no sense to me. It's a waste.

4) Not associated with the first 3. In response to the last 20 words of you last paragraph. Since you have no idea who I am as a person. Your statement "you don't care about misleading people, as long as you're in the right in using that characterization)." Is your opinion of me. That's fine. You're entitled and I'm not offended. How ever. Those 20 or so I helped deal with their Surge band problems might disagree. I'm sure you know. The not replaceable bands I helped them find replacements for. Who's misleading people?I honestly don't believe it's me. But then as long as I'm always right. Right? Those who actually know me know I am honest to a fault. I own up to my mistakes. I am not a fan of deception when that deception takes advantage of others (read into that anything you like).

I've been pretty honest. How about you? You've been critical of my use of the word disposable. You've called it  "misleading." You've never answered the question In the loosest way you can imagine. How do you describe any device with a built in by design limited life span? Not something that wears out. Something that stops working because it was designed to.

Have a great weekend

Peace

AJC

[SunsetRunner]

Can I just put it concisely, as this has been going back and forth too long  

In a strict definition, the Ionic can be considered disposable, as it has no user-serviceable parts and as such has a finite life. However, in generally accepted parlance, disposable hints at short life cycle and generally cheap, with potentially negative connotations.

With its rechargeable battery the Ionic has a life of many recharge cycles and certainly isn't cheap and therefore wouldn't be reasonably expected (love that legal term; covers a multitude of sins and open to so much ambiguity) to be disposable.

Here endeth the thread. 🙂

[VF31AE3]

@SunsetRunner Thank You!!!!

[TwoBit]

LoL, comedy break is over, time to get back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Digitenor]

Just a thought for you here.

The warranty and any other store offering the Ionic references that the 'smart watch' can be repaired within warranty and is not covered out of warranty for repairs.

I had a surge and the battery died, got a replacement outside of warranty after I pointed this out, all because they referenced the consumer act, and so I read it. 🙂

The watch cannot be repaired at all!

It is cheap to manufacture as the software is the real buy in. If something is sold as able to be repaired, but is non-repairable then that is mis-selling and also the item is not fit for purpose, as it was essentially sold as disposable!

[SunsetRunner]

I'm surprised this hasn't happened already, all they need to do is crack it open and change the battery

granted, the battery will probably be a none standard design/shape

[SunsetRunner]

Plenty of companies replace the screen and mobiles of mobile phones

plus when we upgrade, the phone most of the time is not disposed of, we use it in a part exchange in the upgrade, sold or passed on

don't know about you, but we have plenty of second hand shops selling second hand laptops, mobiles, tvs etc

[SunsetRunner]

I don't think something needs to be user-servicable, just serviceable, to be considered non-disposable.  Apple will service ithings and replace batteries, I'm not sure how many other mobile phone/tablet companies will do the same. 

If water tightness dictates the battery isn't replaceable by the user, that would be ok with me, but I'd like to know that Fitbit has a program for "factory" battery replacement, at least on their top dollar products.  I crossed my fingers and took a chance on the Charge 2 and it's non-replaceable battery, but I paid under $100 after discounts. I'm not willing to do the same for a $300 device. 

[Digitenor]

None of their products are serviceable and that was my point as disposable design.

If in warranty, the watch will be returned, chucked away and a replacement sent out.

If not in warranty you are told that they are designed for the environment, and the replaceable batteries are for water tightness and to prevent a mountain of batteries. Ironically they have a mountain of Fitbits with batteries inside them!

Anyway, as I pointed out, if you can get across the misleading warranty and/or selling where repairs are referenced and you are then told that repair is not an option, you may get a replacement.

I just have as I said in an earlier post, my Surge was 30 months (6 out of warranty) and after offering me a voucher, where Surge is now discontinued I was further offered a replacement.

They will quickly dismiss you, but if you persist the staff will assist. They are just bound to scripts and policies, but are actually quite helpful.