SpO2 data?

[themedulla]

I'm very interested in the Ionic - especially so because of the SpO2 data. I currently have a Charge 2 but would happily move to the Ionic for that data. While I certainly use the fitness tracking, a major reason I have a device is to track my stats such as resting heart rate, fitness score (VO2Max approximation). A few years ago I had a pulmonary embolism so keeping track of these things are of high importance to me. I do understand this is not intended to replace dedicated medical devices and sensors, but the data is valuable to me.

In the reviews I have read, it seems that there is no way to access this data directly?

I guess my questions are:

1) Is the SpO2 useful as an absolute number, or only a differential

2) Will there be direct access to SpO2 data on the app or dashboard?

Thanks,

Matt

[shipo]

Looking at the O2 data may well be another area where I take a swing at using the new Fitbit SDK.

[Caponesev]

Fully agree. We need to know if absolute spo2 is accesible or wiill be as continuous  sampling data from the app or is something relative taken as a reference for other measurements.

@Fitbit staff could you please answer?

Thank you!

[SunsetRunner]

I've just been looking through the Developer guides and currently the only sensors access appears granted to are Accelerometer, Barometer, Gyroscope, Heart Rate and Orientation. SPO2 doesn't get a mention. 

[Caponesev]

It cannot be so difficult to get information about a ready product. 
@Fitbit staff PLEASE could you answer officially if spo2 is accesible in app or in SDK/api?
Does it really measure spo2?
Thank you in avance for your answer.

Alejandro Freire

[SunsetRunner]

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@Caponesev wrote:
It cannot be so difficult to get information about a ready product. 
@Fitbit staff PLEASE could you answer officially if spo2 is accesible in app or in SDK/api?
Does it really measure spo2?
Thank you in avance for your answer.

Alejandro Freire

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I've just read some Fitbit text:

• New sensor technology: The introduction of a relative SpO2 sensor for estimating blood oxygen levels opens the potential for tracking important new indicators about your health, such as sleep apnea.

The point is they appear to estimate, not measure, and as I've mentioned elsewhere, non of the developer documentation I've read makes any reference to SPO2 data. I think it'll be in app (on phone) estimation, like their interpretation of VO2 max.

[bbarrera]

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@Caponesev wrote:
It cannot be so difficult to get information about a ready product. 
@Fitbit staff PLEASE could you answer officially if spo2 is accesible in app or in SDK/api?
Does it really measure spo2?

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At press launch Fitbit was careful to say it plans to use SpO2 to track new metrics in the future.

No promised release dates for the new metrics, or how soon 'the future' will arrive.

SpO2 sensor is not available in Fitbit SDK

It estimates relative SpO2 - Fitbit is careful to use the words "estimates" and "relative SpO2"

Here is what one online publication wrote:

"For now, it isn't clear how Fitbit intends to integrate the SpO2 sensor data. The optical system uses a combination of LEDs and a camera to detect your blood oxygen and calculate the relative rate of change. Fitbit says relative change in blood oxygen can be used to detect and understand sleep apnea, but that's something that will be implemented later."

Fitbit CEO James Park told TheVerge

"Park said the company is “undergoing trials right now” for sleep apnea monitoring, though these are only internal trials with clinical partners. He declined to say how long the trials have been going on for, what phase of its trials they’re in, or how big the participant group is."

So yes, it can be difficult to get information from Fitbit, for at least two reasons I can think of... Because they are a publicly traded company and have to be careful discussing futures, and because use of the SpO2 as envisioned by Park may require FDA approval.

Hope that helps.

[themedulla]

As a medical device engineer, I can tell you with relatively high certainty that it will require an FDA approval process (and a painful one at that) if they are going to make any claims about diagnosing sleep apnea. Even warning someone that they may have sleep apnea will require that process. They could provide some data to a health care provider that could aid in a diagnosis without an approval, but that's about as far as they could get.

I also read the wording on "estimating" and "relative change in SpO2" so I have no idea the quality of the data they are generating anyway.

I would gladly pre-order the Ionic right now if I had some details on this functionality. As much as I want to reward a company for adding a very interesting sensor to a wearable, right now it is definitely a wait and see for me.

[MariamV]

Hello everyone!

This feature, it is not currently available. In the future, this sensor could give consumers the opportunity to identify potential health issues like sleep apnea. Fitbit is still exploring how this could manifest in the consumer experience, but such technology would use this sensor. 

Catch you later.

[Jorix]

Hi @MariamV, thanks for clearing that up. How about letting developers help figuring out what to do with the data and provide access to the raw SpO2 sensor data through the Device API?

[themedulla]

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@Jorix wrote:

Hi @MariamV, thanks for clearing that up. How about letting developers help figuring out what to do with the data and provide access to the raw SpO2 sensor data through the Device API?

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Access to the data via the API would be enough for me to buy the Ionic. I understand the data may not be absolute or perfect, but I'd still be willing to pay up to get it.

For what it's worth I am a medical device engineer and entrepreneur. If I can't get to the data, exactly who is on your list?

[SunsetRunner]

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(...)
For what it's worth I am a medical device engineer and entrepreneur. If I can't get to the data, exactly who is on your list?

They do extensive analysis of the data themselves, but appear to be unhappy with the results so far.

If you ever want the chance to analyse some of the data (commercially), I suppose your only chance is https://www.fitabase.com/ .

Beyond that, please do consult https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Researcher-Community/FAQs-for-Researchers/m-p/1958775#M3 .

[bbarrera]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

If you ever want the chance to analyse some of the data (commercially), I suppose your only chance is 

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your only chance is if Fitbit provides API access to SpO2 data. Same for HRV, Fitbit claims its used for guided breathing but provides no access to the data. Would love to see both of those accessible to developers and researchers.

[themedulla]

This is the kind of thing that makes me consider abandoning fitbit and going another route. I end up resenting them if they are taking data from me but not even providing access to my own data through the API.

There is a guy who goes to all the FDA town hall meetings and presents on this. He has a pacemaker implanted that sends a lot of data (from his body) off to the manufacturer and they refuse to provide him access to it. It is the kind of data he might be able to use to make care decisions and be able to take some preventative measures that might stave off a serious event. I'm kind of on his side with this one.

I guess my general feeling is that I'm willing to give up my private data but in return I expect access to it. Maybe it's not accurate or useful or fully developed - but give me access to it with a disclaimer if you have to.

[SunsetRunner]

@themedulla there is the possibility of course that Fitbit isn't actually collecting SpO2 data at the moment, so doesn't have anything for you to have access to. Given they're not using the red LED, presumably this is something to come at some point in the future and so API access is redundant until then. 

[bbarrera]

more likely the SpO2 is disabled in current firmware, and requires special firmware for the clinical trials that Fitbit CEO avoiding discussing at Ionic launch.

But the point remains, Fitbit APIs are not complete. The Surge with GPS and HR was launched 3 years ago, and its still not possible to import GPS or HR data. If you track a non-GPS activity, like treadmill or stationary bike, you still can't export HR values from the public APIs. The Ionic SDK has a restricted set of APIs.

Even if SpO2 is enabled, that doesn't automatically imply Fitbit will create an API for it.

[Jej67]

Yes it will work but you will need too pay another 350 bucks for it ...

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/2/28/17061416/fitbit-smartwatch-wearable-fitness-tracke...

[USAF-Larry]

@Jej67, I hope you noticed the operative words in that article: "supposedly show".   Anything beyond that headline is rumor and speculation at this point in time.