Waving arms counting as steps - what to do-Ionic

[StephyCara]

Just wondering on people's opinions on this.  I have severe osteoarthritis of the right hip and walking/stepping now always ideal for me and can be pretty painful. Before on days I couldn't get to the gym or when I couldn't walk due to bad weather I would jog on the spot but that's just a no no for me now as I get a flare up with the hip.

What I've found is that if I wave my arms up and down repetitively I get steps in this way.  Even sitting down doing it.  I don't log this as an activity but it seems to log it as an activity with my heart-rate going up.

What I want to know is - do people think this is cheating?  I know it's not proper steps but just feel a bit deflated when I can't achieve this.  See if I can attach a screen shot of an activity I did today doing this.

TIA.  

Moderator edit: updated subject for clarity

[WendyB]

If you cant reach the goal you have set then reduce it. They are not set rules for setting your goals. We all do what we can.

But yes its cheating if you are purposely doing it to get steps.

[StephyCara]

Makes me feel like there's no point wearing the Fitbit if you can cheat at it.  😞

[Rich_Laue]

Any step counter can be fooled by waving it, even a tracker connected to the waist.

As for an arm based tracker, it does not look at or know what the feet are doing, since it is mounted on the arm. It looks for arm movements that should happen when the feet are moving. 

[StephyCara]

Yes but isn't the difference between other step counters and most Fitbits that they are monitoring your heartrate?  I understand it's not normal 'steps' as such but surely if the Fitbit device you're wearing is noticing your heartrate increasing then that should go towards exercise and calories burnt for the day.  When I do a session on the rowing machine at the gym it counts towards my steps but no stepping is involved with that exercise either.  That's why I wonder weather it really is 'cheating' at all.

[Rich_Laue]

On fitbits models with heart rate, Fitbit uses the heart data to determine active minutes. 

[StephyCara]

So it's not cheating then? If it's telling me I've done a workout for so many minutes and tells me I've burnt so many calories. It doesn't actually matter whether I'm stepping or not. 

[Rich_Laue]

I would say the added steps during normal activities are not cheating, since this is simply a result of an arm based tracker that can only look at arm motions and these daily arm motions are not under your control in that they need to be made 

Please remember that there will be plenty of times that the feet will be moving and the arms will not be, the result is that these steps will not be counted.

While in general your single days steps may not be completely accurate, your 7 day step counts will be much closer and the 30 day counts will average out really close. 

My tests with wearing both the Fitbit One and a Fitbit arm unit on separate accounts have confirmed this with one of the 4 months totals within 100 steps.

Now if you sit and wave the arm to build up the step count, then yes, many would consider this cheating but I think this same many have also done this.

Some feel that Fitbit should count and add every non step leg movent, such as when on a bike, while others feel that this would be cheeting.

[StephyCara]

Thank you for your response.  I've come to the conclusion that waving arms in such a way is not cheating.  The reason being the following:

• Waving your arms results in elevated heart-rate
• Elevated heart-rate results in more calories burnt
• More calories burnt results in better weight loss results

The step thing, for me, is not so relevant.  If I was doing a step challenge then, yes, it would be cheating, but what I'm trying to achieve is a calorie deficit each week which results in a weight loss.  That's unless the heart-rate monitor is not that accurate and raises 'thinking' that you are stepping when you're not.

I do wish that Fitbit would change their devices so that the cycling/swimming do count towards steps and distance.  I did raise this with swimming but was told it was a good idea but they are not considering it for now or future.

Thank you again for your advice and taking the time to respond to me.  Was interesting to get other people's views on the matter.  

[SunsetRunner]

@StephyCara cycling adds steps but it requires an uneven surface to cycle on 😉 Yesterday my ride added 3755 steps as the riverside is quite bumpy. I'd rather have non-stepbased activities be excluded from step counting though. On the other hand, I don't really care much about step counting unless I participate in a challenge which I haven't done for a long time. Steps aren't a measure of anything. I can have a very active day and still have steps under 10k. For example one of the past days Ionic registered 192 active minutes, 2821kcal burnt, but only 8604. So didn't hit the "full green" at the end of the day but done an insane amount of "stepless" activities. The distance is also bit pointless as it mixes up pace and GPS data. As much as stepping in place is a valid thing ( like on the stepper and elliptical ), it adds to the distance that you haven't travelled for real. But I don't know, maybe I don't see a point here.

[StephyCara]

@SunsetRunner I actually do get the point about not adding the non-step based activities as steps - just I suppose it's a bit annoying for us that don't have great mobility that they don't.  It's also interesting that cycling (although outdoor proper cycling rather than on a stationary bike in the gym) adds those steps. 

It's just I don't understand why it would be thought of waving your arms as cheating.  Why?????  Cheating at what??? Stepping yeah, OK - but burning fat and calories, maybe not.

I know it would be viewed that I'm cheating with distance and steps but if my Fitbit is picking up an activity and a raised heart-rate then surely that's OK?  It's great that I can incorporated this activity into my daily routine without having to go outside in bad weather or go to the gym if I don't have time.  Let's just hope Fitbit is accurate with the heart-rate monitor.

[SunsetRunner]

@StephyCara waving hands to add steps is cheating if you do it to win the challenge. However, daily activities like ironing, vacuuming, sometimes even typing on the keyboard can add steps. I found out that even brushing my teeth adds steps despite I do it with my right hand and wear Ionic on the left. This is because it's not only about waving an arm but general motion ( like shaking, bouncing up and down etc. ). That's why you can get steps when walking holding hands in pockets. It will still count steps. I consider that anything that has been registered unintentionally isn't cheating. Obviously, nobody thinks "Ha! I'm gonna win this challenge by brushing my teeth for a whole hour! Muhahahaha!". My point of view is rather self-centred and I use certain data sets to analyze my performance. Don't care about cheating 🙂 But adding cycling or any other stepless workout to the steps counter is a mistake because it produces false data. Walking and running affect your body and fitness different way than for example cycling. If I see that half of my steps comes from cycling then what use this counter really has for me?

[StephyCara]

@SunsetRunner I understand the points you are making and that Fitbit will add steps unintentionally when no steps are taken. The point I'm making is that by waving my arms up and down it raises my heart-rate and therefore burns calories/fat. If you look at the image I posted above it calculates that I did approximately 19 mins cardio, 2 mins fat burn and 1 min peak. Is this inaccurate?  If not then surely this helps towards fitness and weight loss, which is ultimately my goal. The above activity wasn't me setting it as a workout but my Fitbit picking this up automatically. I know that I didn't do a proper elliptical workout, do steps, travel distance etc but did I burn the calories that the Fitbit said I did and can I rely on it?  If I can then I'll consider this as a non-cheating activity, unless I'm part of a step challenge that is.  

[SunsetRunner]

@StephyCara it's very unlikely that waving arms will give you cardio. I could be waving all I can and my HR maybe, just maybe will get randomly into "fat burn" from time to time. But this is a totally different topic ( I don't trust HR monitor in Ionic, for me, it simply doesn't work during workouts and it's always way off compared to the ECG chest strap ). I let Fitbit detect only walking. Other activities I register myself. This is due to very often the wrong detection (mixing up detection of cycling, walking and elliptical ).

It's really hard to speak about cheating in the context of activities. Because in fact who are we cheating? If we know where the data came from that's fine. I totally agree that the only case when the steps should be as much as only possible, real steps in challenges. Otherwise, does it really matter?

[StephyCara]

@SunsetRunner This is my point though about why wear a Fitbit at all if the heart-rate monitor is so off.  The heart-rate detects how many calories you are burning and, if it's totally off (as you say - and could very well be), it's really inaccurate and can't be relied on.  Not really that bothered about how many steps I do but how many calories I burn from doing any exercise so I just find it a bit of a useless thing to wear.  

Out of interest - what Fitbit do you use?  Just that it maybe that the one you have is more accurate than an Ionic if you don't get cardio from waving your arms (like I have).

[SunsetRunner]

@StephyCara I use Ionic. But my HR during waving my arms may be caused by my level of fitness - that's one thing. However, looking at your profile picture, you don't seem to be very unfit yourself 🙂 In other words, it takes a lot more than that for me to elevate my HR to such levels. Even during moderate speed walking it's between 90-110. The thing is, in my case Ionic reads my HR too low during workouts so while the chest trap shows let's say 150bpm, the Ionic suddenly drops to 60 out of nowhere. The best it's visible during weight training. If you see the graph of HR from ECG you can even count my sets 🙂 Ionic graph is a mess. I wrote really a lot about inaccurate HR on this forum. I don't want to go over that again and again, so see my recent post with such comparison ( sorry for offtopic )

https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Ionic/Are-calorie-data-incorrect/m-p/2988026#M72005

To clarify, I haven't been using Ionic to lose weight. This happened way back when I've been using Charge 2. I bought Ionic to step to the next level when I got interested in doing real sports, even becoming little competitive ( running, cycling, indoor/outdoor climbing, swimming, rowing, lifting weights and anything that suddenly comes up ). In this area, Ionic is a toy that falls really short. I have to use an accurate external HR sensor, other apps to actually log my trainings, analyze progress. I even use different software for tracking my food because everything on the side of hardware and software is just not up to the task. I admit It's a good tool when you're looking for weight loss, but it's mere toy when you're looking into something more serious. So the fact that waving hands produces steps is really least of my problems. It's exactly a problem of a toy 🙂 Basically, it shouldn't be called a fitness tracker but weight-loss tracker. Such a description would be a lot more accurate. Enough of the offtopic 🙂

[StephyCara]

Thank you @SunsetRunner for your response.  I have also read your other post with regards to inaccurate HR readings. That was interesting too and have wondered before if the HR thing is all it's supposed to be cracked up to be.  I suppose the key is not to take the readings of Fitbit too seriously as things are quite inaccurate at times but just to use it as guidance.  I'll give the waving arm thingy a miss then!!    Just concentrate on being more active in general and up my swimming/cycling (which is easier on the joints).

Thanks again.  

[SantiR]

@StephyCara I hope you're doing well! Thanks for taking the time to post your experience and inquiries about activities tracked by your Fitbit watch. Thanks for sharing all of those details and even a screen shot about this.

I'm really glad to read that you got a lot of help on this thread by some experts on this topic. I think all the information they provided is helpful. I'm sure this will be helpful for other users too.

@SunsetRunner @Rich_Laue @WendyB Thank you very much for sharing your experience and help on this thread.

See you around! 

[ajar23]

Sorry this reply is highly unacceptable. I was using Samsung Gear Fit 2. Waving hands or hand gestures are never counted. Fitbit need to work seriously on this and release updates. This has direct impact on trust on your products

[RicardoFitbit]

Hi @ajar23 welcome to our Community, I'm happy to assist you with your concern. My apologies for the delayed reply.

Please note that we're always striving to improve our products and services, your feedback is greatly appreciated because this information help us to work on our improvements. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

Let me know if I can do anything else for you. I'll be here.